Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[Lance Armstrong]

This was Firenze: http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2013/05/28/2/florencerr_circuit_profile_670.jpg

It's not even close. Innsbruck is much harder.

Sagan has no business being there and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. He is at least 10kg too heavy for this type of profile and 2 months of preparation won't change anything.

 

[tomorrow]

This was Firenze: http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2013/05/28/2/florencerr_circuit_profile_670.jpg

It's not even close. Innsbruck is much harder.

Sagan has no business being there and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. He is at least 10kg too heavy for this type of profile and 2 months of preparation won't change anything.

Well, obviously he shouldn't have no business there, I think so too. E.g. if he thought he had no business in Rio, why he would think he has some in Innsbruck. Personally, I was sad, that he didn't race in Rio, because he would definitely represent the country better than Haring I think it was. Maybe he regretted his choice. We all know how Rio ended up. Or he was inspired by GvA. Or, or or. He might also be counting on that crazy steepeness of the last climb, that there would only be attacks in the last hundred meters and he can somehow limit his losses with his own pacing, ... Only him knows. Maybe he's just wants to go to BOTD. We will see in september if he will even participate.

 

[Leinster]

In addition, he clearly lost the endurance he had last years, as we could see in E3 and Flanders. Last year, he would get to Terpstra and Lampaert I think, and he would not run out of steam after the patterberg in Flanders. As I believe the endurance came with increased weight, and for Insbruck he needs to be lighter. And as you stated, he still was not ready to fully sacrifice the spring, he only lost something pre spring and will continue to loose weight during the year.

For me, the arguments start to add up. However, I do think that it's stupid idea and he shouldn't do it.

For me, that argument falls apart where he’s losing the endurance for a 260km Tour of Flanders to prepare for a 260km WCRR.

I could understand if he was losing weight to get up the longer climbs in Innsbruck, so was suffering over the shorter more explosive climbs in Flanders. But he dropped everyone on the explosive climb up the Paterberg, and then didn’t have the speed over the following flat kilometers.

I’ve always thought he has the ability, if he drops a few kgs, to win any/every race on the calendar, if he wants to. But I don’t think he’s started that just yet.

 

[cyclopsnoobie]

This was Firenze: http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2013/05/28/2/florencerr_circuit_profile_670.jpg

It's not even close. Innsbruck is much harder.

Sagan has no business being there and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. He is at least 10kg too heavy for this type of profile and 2 months of preparation won't change anything.

Thanks guys, for answers,

i just have seen Innsbruck profile…….and…..R.I.P

This Fermo finish from last year Tirreno is only light version of Gramartboden. Fermo had cca 700 m long ramp with max 22% steep slope - after that was cca 2,7 km relatively flat “recovery” section and after that was Sagans “home” turf - 300 m ramp with max steep 10% slope. On the top of first ramp Sagan climbed on 12 position with little gap (cca 1-2 sec) so it was good performance but again - we are speaking about 700 m climb. On the other hand Gramartboden is relatively continualy ascending slope without recovery passages - it is 2.8 kilometres and averaging 11,5%, while the steepest ramps are 25%. The toughest kilometre is halfway up the hill. And it is after Igls climb and after 250 km with 4,670 vertical metres in legs…..so…again R.I.P.

Either is he trolling or is he somehow calculating with possibility to close gaps on those long downhill sections after last two climbs - i do not know...

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

In addition, he clearly lost the endurance he had last years, as we could see in E3 and Flanders. Last year, he would get to Terpstra and Lampaert I think, and he would not run out of steam after the patterberg in Flanders. As I believe the endurance came with increased weight, and for Insbruck he needs to be lighter. And as you stated, he still was not ready to fully sacrifice the spring, he only lost something pre spring and will continue to loose weight during the year.

For me, the arguments start to add up. However, I do think that it's stupid idea and he shouldn't do it.

For me, that argument falls apart where he’s losing the endurance for a 260km Ronde van Vlaanderen to prepare for a 260km WCRR.

I could understand if he was losing weight to get up the longer climbs in Innsbruck, so was suffering over the shorter more explosive climbs in Flanders. But he dropped everyone on the explosive climb up the Paterberg, and then didn’t have the speed over the following flat kilometers.

I’ve always thought he has the ability, if he drops a few kgs, to win any/every race on the calendar, if he wants to. But I don’t think he’s started that just yet.

First of all, I didn't say the loosing the endurance is key factor for wining in Insbruck. I only stated, that he lost it and the reason might be loosing the weight.

Also, in my opinion, the long climb won't be the problem or better said, the place where anything will happen. The 3km ramp with 1.5 km Patterberg-like section in the middle will.

Nevertheless, I hope I am wrong, because he tried to loose weight and be better in the hills once, and we all know how that ended. It would be the same this time.

 

[SKSemtex]

Winning in Insbruck 4 time in a raw in this type of route and becoming legend must be such an allure that only few can resist.

Yes he has no chance with present weight, preparation, racing program, stupidity of chasing Zabel green jersey record + no teammate already in the fist half of race.

As far I am concerned I would not mind if he did not ride one single cobble race trying to prepare himself the best possible way for that race.

Unfortunately by preparing himself the best possible way whould change the race completely. I can imagine it could be probably the hardest race in history, as some team with 6 climbers would try to make it hell for him from the beginning. I am pretty sure climbers learned their lesson in RIO.

Summary: NO, he has no chance and it is not worth trying it but .....
Let's be romantic. It would be fan.

 

[tomorrow]

Winning in Insbruck 4 time in a raw in this type of route and becoming legend must be such an allure that only few can resist.

Yes he has no chance with present weight, preparation, racing program, stupidity of chasing Zabel green jersey record + no teammate already in the fist half of race.

As far I am concerned I would not mind if he did not ride one single cobble race trying to prepare himself the best possible way for that race.

Unfortunately by preparing himself the best possible way whould change the race completely. I can imagine it could be probably the hardest race in history, as some team with 6 climbers would try to make it hell for him from the beginning. I am pretty sure climbers learned their lesson in RIO.

Summary: NO, he has no chance and it is not worth trying it but .....
Let's be romantic. It would be fan.

Yup, it would be fun to watch that one race, maybe Il Lombardia after too, but then he would be suffering for year and a half like last time. I'd rather watch him stay what he is and in Insbruck go in the BOTD or attack 80km or so in the descent. That would be fun too. He doesn't need to win to make some fun. If nothing, it would definitely end up in longer racing of the whole pack.

 

[SKSemtex]

Winning in Insbruck 4 time in a raw in this type of route and becoming legend must be such an allure that only few can resist.

Yes he has no chance with present weight, preparation, racing program, stupidity of chasing Zabel green jersey record + no teammate already in the fist half of race.

As far I am concerned I would not mind if he did not ride one single cobble race trying to prepare himself the best possible way for that race.

Unfortunately by preparing himself the best possible way whould change the race completely. I can imagine it could be probably the hardest race in history, as some team with 6 climbers would try to make it hell for him from the beginning. I am pretty sure climbers learned their lesson in RIO.

Summary: NO, he has no chance and it is not worth trying it but .....
Let's be romantic. It would be fan.

Yup, it would be fun to watch that one race, maybe Il Lombardia after too, but then he would be suffering for year and a half like last time. I'd rather watch him stay what he is and in Insbruck go in the BOTD or attack 80km or so in the descent. That would be fun too. He doesn't need to win to make some fun. If nothing, it would definitely end up in longer racing of the whole pack.

I do not know where is this myth of him losing the weight to become a better climber coming from.
As I remember he is gradually bigger and bigger. . He never tied to change from cobbles to Ardennes or go for some GT.

His best climbing shape was in 2013.

The lack of "top" results in 2014-2015 (his results were still quite outstanding) has more to do with him riding for shitty teams without any support and changed the situation in peloton towards him then the losing the weight and trying something different.

However, he is not his own boss, Bora pays his check and he has to follow.

But looking e.g. in his Montreal results one can think he could be quite goods in hilly one-day races.
The fact he is too "big" now. When you compare him to Alaphilippe today. :surprised:

 

[Eli]

What's Sagan's present weight? 75kg?

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

What's Sagan's present weight? 75kg?

Think he's closer to 80.

He could go to Innsbruck, but not as a climber. He'd be there as the defending World Champ, if he wants to do that. The transformation people are talking about doesn't just happen overnight and takes like a year.

 

[Keram]

Apparently Sagan didnt give everything to it after Paterberg. Villa said it for velonews. “Peter had a good race. He dropped everybody on the last climb, but Terpstra was too far ahead. He said, ‘What do I do?’ He waited for the bunch, but sixth place is not what we were expecting.”
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2018/04/news/sagan-coach-its-harder-and-harder-for-him-to-win_462020

As for that thing with Insbruck. I read he is leaner but had more muscles at the right places. I think he will go to Innsbruck but not with winnig ambitions but from Slovakia there are not riders for that course anyway. He is reported to go to Amstel. I would love to see him in Fleche too because of compareing with his 2013 climbing. LBL not because that would be to much after spring campaing.

 

[Eli]

Re: Re:

What's Sagan's present weight? 75kg?

Think he's closer to 80.

He could go to Innsbruck, but not as a climber. He'd be there as the defending World Champ, if he wants to do that. The transformation people are talking about doesn't just happen overnight and takes like a year.

Oh woow. How sure are you about that? I know GVA is around 73kg. He surely can't be 10kg heavier than PhilGil can He?

Not point going to the world champs at that weight.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

What's Sagan's present weight? 75kg?

Think he's closer to 80.

He could go to Innsbruck, but not as a climber. He'd be there as the defending World Champ, if he wants to do that. The transformation people are talking about doesn't just happen overnight and takes like a year.

Oh woow. How sure are you about that? I know GVA is around 73kg. He surely can't be 10kg heavier than PhilGil can He?

Not point going to the world champs at that weight.

Weight doesn't really matter all that much. I'm probably wrong about it, but there's no way a non GC rider is contending for the win on that parcours.

It's like asking Sagan to drop weight so he can win on Alpe d'Huez by beating all the favorites mano a mano

 

[Leinster]

Re:

Apparently Sagan didnt give everything to it after Paterberg. Villa said it for velonews. “Peter had a good race. He dropped everybody on the last climb, but Terpstra was too far ahead. He said, ‘What do I do?’ He waited for the bunch, but sixth place is not what we were expecting.”
Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2018/04/news/sagan-coach-its-harder-and-harder-for-him-to-win_462020

I’m struggling to believe that. It did look like he sat up a bit, but why? He was sitting in 3rd. His chances of catching Terpstra were slim, but Peddersen wasn’t so far out of reach. If he caught Mads, maybe they could team up and close the gap a bit on Terpstra.

If he kept going, he had a probable 3rd, a chance of 2nd, and if Terpstra had a mechanical or missed a corner, a slim chance at first. By sitting up he could at best get 3rd, and then he didn’t even follow the attacks that did take it.

 

[Netserk]

According to google:

Boonen: 82kg (192cm)
Cancellara: 81kg (186cm)
Sagan: 73kg (183cm)
Greg: 72kg (181cm)
Gilbert: 70kg (183cm)

Not that I'd trust that...

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

According to google:

Boonen: 82kg (192cm)
Cancellara: 81kg (186cm)
Sagan: 73kg (183cm)
Greg: 72kg (181cm)
Gilbert: 70kg (183cm)

Not that I'd trust that...

I guess it's like with weather forecast. They always hit the weather, but not the place. Here, they always hit the weight, but not the time.

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

According to google:

Boonen: 82kg (192cm)
Cancellara: 81kg (186cm)
Sagan: 73kg (183cm)
Greg: 72kg (181cm)
Gilbert: 70kg (183cm)

Not that I'd trust that...

That was his weight at Liquigas/Cannondale, last year he said that he is 80 kg now.
https://video-espanol.eurosport.com/ciclismo/tour-de-francia/2017/tour-de-francia-2017-ask-sagan-pesando-80-kilos-no-puedo-ser-un-buen-escalador_vid988153/video.shtml

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Re: Re:

According to google:

Boonen: 82kg (192cm)
Cancellara: 81kg (186cm)
Sagan: 73kg (183cm)
Greg: 72kg (181cm)
Gilbert: 70kg (183cm)

Not that I'd trust that...

That was his weight at Liquigas/Cannondale, last year he said that he is 80 kg now.
https://video-espanol.eurosport.com/ciclismo/tour-de-francia/2017/tour-de-francia-2017-ask-sagan-pesando-80-kilos-no-puedo-ser-un-buen-escalador_vid988153/video.shtml

Correct, in an interview for Slovak media last year he said he's 78-79 when he's in a top shape.

 

[Durden93]

In case I’m missing something, the best indication of Sagan’s climbing abilities come from California in 2015. In that race Sagan:
-Lost 24 seconds to Henao, 47 seconds to Alaphilippe on an 8km 8ish percent
-Beat Alaphilippe in a sprint for second on an 11km 7% climb. I have no idea if this means anything for worlds or not, just thought i’d share

 

[tobydawq]

11 kilometer climb? It wasn't more than 2, probably closer to 1.

 

[Durden93]

Re:

11 kilometer climb? It wasn't more than 2, probably closer to 1.

Ah, my mistake. Wiki’s summary made it appear as thought Hamilton was the finishing climb.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

11 kilometer climb? It wasn't more than 2, probably closer to 1.

Ah, my mistake. Wiki’s summary made it appear as thought Hamilton was the finishing climb.

He was distanced over the summit of Hamilton, got back on on the descent, and beat JA for 2nd up the short finish climb.

His performance on Mt Baldy was impressive, he beat some climbers who would normally be expected to feature highly in the results. He won the race on a) sprint bonuses and b) a super fast TT.

 

[Blanco]

Not so kind words from Tom Boonen about his friend Sagan, but I guess he's partly right, Sagan just whines too much how everybody is against him.

 

[Screecher]

Re:

Not so kind words from Tom Boonen about his friend Sagan, but I guess he's partly right, Sagan just whines too much how everybody is against him.

How to stay relevant? Talk about Sagan.

 

[trucido]

Re: Re:

Not so kind words from Tom Boonen about his friend Sagan, but I guess he's partly right, Sagan just whines too much how everybody is against him.

How to stay relevant? Talk about Sagan.

Better than talking about how much he was holding Quickstep back beforehand.