Playing God: Eufemiano Fuentes

[BillytheKid]

The interesting fact is even riders who fought for top-20 (Scarponi, Serrano and Caruso) had to use 2 blood bags in the 2006 Giro. LOL. By stardarts of that field, I'm beginning to consider Basso's victory almost fair.

Your starting think like Lance. "Air the tires, fill the bottles and have some drip coffee."

 

[DirtyWorks]

The whole ado about those baggies could explain why the IOC has been firing against WADA lately.
If WADA gets hold of those baggies, it'll be alarmcode red at IOC headquarters.

Given the way he got an official okay to have/administer forbidden drugs, he's the proverbial tip of a national doping scheme. That would cut straight to confirming testing of all kinds is complete fraud if the least little bit of information about the blood gets out.

The IOC will do their best to suppress it. If a few people at WADA don't get the message, then expect deep budget cuts and WADA leadership being shown the door.

 

[del1962]

Anyone know the itinery for this case over the next week?

 

[icefire]

Anyone know the itinery for this case over the next week?

To start with today, some clueless doctors stating the obvious:

Blood transfusions don't make any sense in healthy people and they always require medical prescription. Athletes can recover from their effort with rehydration. And EPO may be dangerous for your health.

However, they didn't find the EPO levels in the blood bags were risky. You know, they were treated by a good doctor.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2013/02/25/ciclismo/1361792613.html

 

[sniper]

ElPais putting heat on Odriozola, president of Spanish atheltics federation.
http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/02/25/actualidad/1361803495_190242.html

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Who is this guy?

Black = EPO
White = withdrawal
Red = reinfusion

 

[thehog]

Ullrich's DNA test wasn't voluntary, it was ordered by German investigators.

They raided his home and forced a hair sample.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Who is this guy?

Black = EPO
White = withdrawal
Red = reinfusion

What year is that?

 

[Merckx index]

Some interesting things implied by this schedule:

1) withdrew blood in the second week of January, and again in the last week of Feb., but did not transfuse until March 7. That is about 8 weeks after the first withdrawal. You can’t store blood refrigerated that long. So that first withdrawal, at least, would have to be frozen. In fact, I think all the blood withdrawn by this rider was frozen, because at no time does he couple a withdrawal with a transfusion, as one normally does when one is storing blood refrigerated; I discuss this further below. And also because in late June and July he is transfusing blood up to more than six weeks after the last withdrawal, and much longer after earlier withdrawals, which would have been needed to supply all this blood.

2) Note the heavy use of EPO preceding withdrawals that are not closely associated in time with reinfusion. The idea is to build up the HT so that blood withdrawn is rich in red cells, and to minimize the weakness following withdrawal.

3) The first transfusion is Mar 7. Since that is not coupled with a withdrawal, and since it is so long after the first withdrawal, I assume the transfusion was to increase HT for a race. It would probably be for a week-long stage race (is there one at that time?), as he did not withdraw until nine days later. If it had been for a one-day race, he mostly likely would have withdrawn soon after the race. See the next point for more on this.
However, the transfusion for the race was only ten days after the previous withdrawal. That is not enough time to recover fully from the withdrawal. I assume the rider had no choice, as he needed more blood in storage. Notice he did not use EPO to accelerate recovery after withdrawal, as withdrawal itself stimulates reticulocytes, and you don’t want to do anything more to alter your parameters.

4) Has a second transfusion in April. This again was most likely for a race, since it was not immediately coupled with a withdrawal. A withdrawal did occur two days later, suggesting the transfusion was for a one day race. The transfusion-withdrawal coupling I don’t think was just a way of recycling stored blood so that did not become dated, because normally you would withdraw first—so that the withdrawal does not contain any previously stored blood—and you would carry out both procedures at the same time, so there is no period when your blood has abnormal parameters.

5) Same with the transfusion at the end of April, which is followed a week later by a withdrawal. Suggests that this transfusion, too, was for a stage race.

6) Following the withdrawal in the beginning of May, he does take EPO, which is risky. But he only withdrew a half portion of blood, and he needs the EPO, as he wants to withdraw again in about a month. At that point, he has enough blood for the rest of the season, which almost certainly involves the TDF (three transfusions, one of them maybe before the race begins, the other two during).

Information like this would be very useful if one were betting on the races. E.g., I would bet the rider did not do that well in that stage race in early March, because he didn’t have enough recovery time from the withdrawal at the end of Feb. This also provides more insight into why riders who do very well in the TDF often don't do much during preceding races. Because of the constraints of blood withdrawals, they often can't enter these races at maximum fitness, not if their first priority is to have enough blood in storage for several transfusions during the TDF.

 

[Netserk]

I looked at the calender from 2004 (was just a guess)
Paris-Nice 7-14 March
Tirreno-Adriatico 10-16 March
Paris-Roubaix 11th April (This one confuses me the most, which TdF rider would ride Roubaix?)
Tour de Romandie 27-2 May
Tour de France 3-25 July

The timing of Romandie makes me think that it isn't the year of 2004, but if the calender looked similar (which I'm sure it did) then I think it is very likely those races listed above. P-R does confuse me though.

 

[hrotha]

That graphic is terrible. It makes the info much harder to interpret than the raw graphics.

 

[GazelleFormula]

I looked at the calender from 2004 (was just a guess)
Paris-Nice 7-14 March
Tirreno-Adriatico 10-16 March
Paris-Roubaix 11th April (This one confuses me the most, which TdF rider would ride Roubaix?)
Tour de Romandie 27-2 May
Tour de France 3-25 July

The timing of Romandie makes me think that it isn't the year of 2004, but if the calender looked similar (which I'm sure it did) then I think it is very likely those races listed above. P-R does confuse me though.

Hincapie, Fabs, Hushovd in 2004. To name a few.

 

[Netserk]

By October there have been 11 whites and 11 reds, but then around the worlds(?) there is two reds, then two whites. Where did the extra BB come from?

 

[Pentacycle]

If the lines are races it's surely 2003 as the Tour started on July 5th.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

If the lines are races it's surely 2003 as the Tour started on July 5th.

There is only 21 days in that red line, it takes 23 for the Tour. It seems to be short on one end.
Also what happens on April 11 2003 that requires a special boost?

 

[Pentacycle]

There is only 21 days in that red line, it takes 23 for the Tour. It seems to be short on one end.
Also what happens on April 11 2003 that requires a special boost?

The difficulty is where can you find what races took place on April 11? And are prologues counted as race days? The key is finding a rider who didn't race after the Tour in a certain year, only to return at the Worlds or Lombardia. And with schedule Tirreno-Setmana Catalana-???-Romandie-Dauhphine-???-Tour.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

The difficulty is where can you find what races took place on April 11? And are prologues counted as race days? The key is finding a rider who didn't race after the Tour in a certain year, only to return at the Worlds or Lombardia. And with schedule Tirreno-Setmana Catalana-???-Romandie-Dauhphine-???-Tour.

But is it a complete schedule?
Maybe the idea was he had his schedule worked out up to the Tour de France and knew he wanted to focus on the World Championships. His schedule was not fully worked out for between the Tour and the World Championships.
Doing a quick count of withdraws and infusions up until the end of the Tour it is 11 out, 11 in. So where does the blood being infused on the 11th of October come from.
I doubt this is a full racing schedule especially after the Tour, but I also do not know where the information came from so maybe I am totally wrong.

 

[Netserk]

If the lines are races it's surely 2003 as the Tour started on July 5th.

In 2003 P-R was on the 12th, and there wasn't any one-day races on the 11th.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

In 2003 P-R was on the 12th, and there wasn't any one-day races on the 11th.

If the 11th is the Paris - Roubaix then it could be 1999 although it seems a bit early. Tour also finished on the 25th of July in 1999. However the WC RR was on the 10th of October, not the 11th.

It is not possible to get P-R on the 11th of April and the 11th of October to be a Sunday as well.

 

[Netserk]

If the 11th is the Paris - Roubaix then it could be 1999 although it seems a bit early. Tour also finished on the 25th of July in 1999. However the WC RR was on the 10th of October, not the 11th.

It is not possible to get P-R on the 11th of April and the 11th of October to be a Sunday as well.

It could be a Sunday then Saturday. Lombardia is on a Saturday.

 

[Frosty]

Hincapie, Fabs, Hushovd in 2004. To name a few.

I think its more an observation that the racing schedule looks like that of someone going for the win/a high place at the tour de france and that these people do not often do Paris-Roubaix. People who do aim for Paris-Roubaix might be more likely to go for the other spring classics. Could be a key domestique in the tour, or someone who is looking for a stage or two.

Where does the graphic come from? I assume that the transfusions during the tour would be on the rest days, or the evening before the rest days. The 2005 tour de france would be the best match but then it doesnt match with the start and finish days. If it is real then is it possible everything is shifted by a day or so?

 

[Frosty]

Information like this would be very useful if one were betting on the races. E.g., I would bet the rider did not do that well in that stage race in early March, because he didn’t have enough recovery time from the withdrawal at the end of Feb.

He had a transfusion before the race in March though. There wasnt that much time since the withdrawal but his body would naturally have tried to get his haematocrit back to normal. Then he gets a big boost from the transfusion. I would have said he was more likely to do well?

 

[Frosty]

But is it a complete schedule?
Maybe the idea was he had his schedule worked out up to the Tour de France and knew he wanted to focus on the World Championships. His schedule was not fully worked out for between the Tour and the World Championships.
Doing a quick count of withdraws and infusions up until the end of the Tour it is 11 out, 11 in. So where does the blood being infused on the 11th of October come from.
I doubt this is a full racing schedule especially after the Tour, but I also do not know where the information came from so maybe I am totally wrong.

Good points. Either there were already some bags in store or there was a plan to take some bags at some point after the tour but the cyclist's racing schedule after the tour is often uncertain and so that would be worked out closer to the time. If this is pre-2006 though then it would already have happened and been updated, or is this a rough plan?

 

[Netserk]

Good points. Either there were already some bags in store or there was a plan to take some bags at some point after the tour but the cyclist's racing schedule after the tour is often uncertain and so that would be worked out closer to the time. If this is pre-2006 though then it would already have happened and been updated, or is this a rough plan?

I also think it is a rough plan. The dates simply doesn't match.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

I also think it is a rough plan. The dates simply doesn't match.

I think you are right, some of the dates are out by a day or two, some are probably right.
March stage race looks like Paris - Nice. Why would someone go all out for Paris - Nice having not raced before?
Then an unknown race, followed by P-R.
Perhaps Tour of Romandie
Perhaps a National Championships
Tour de France
WCs, TT or RR?? or Lombardia

P-R is the odd race out, apart from that it looks like a stage racer focusing on the Tour, wanting to win his national championship just before and thinking he had a good chance for the WC.
So which years could a Tour de France contender think they could win the WCRR?

It could also be a sprinter having a go at P-R to see if they could be a rider to do well there.