Excellent pointDo you think Aru have gotten the penalty if it's was for example an italian rider for another team their had helped him ? I don't think so, besides that their has been many rules their have been broken under this Giro but nothing had happen their for example Gianni Meersman. Last year Nairo Quintana won by breaking they rules nothing happend their.
I don't know how Quintana got away with it. Gianni Meersman was not a rider Fabio Aru was competing with for the overall Giro win.
Re: Re:
Indeed. The organizers don't care much about who wins, it's only a matter of audience to them and a lot of sponsors are not italians.
Eshnar said:
Indeed. The organizers don't care much about who wins, it's only a matter of audience to them and a lot of sponsors are not italians.
Re: Porte Penalised 2 minutes for getting Clarkes Wheel -Fai
I agree with the rule. If in one stage Porte has a mech and instead of waiting for the car gets his buddies wheel and saves 30 secs r and gets back on. The next day anJapanese Gc rider ( made up) has the same but no friends to give him a wheel and waits for the car and misses out. Unfair advantage, though the 2 minutes is thick
I agree with the rule. If in one stage Porte has a mech and instead of waiting for the car gets his buddies wheel and saves 30 secs r and gets back on. The next day anJapanese Gc rider ( made up) has the same but no friends to give him a wheel and waits for the car and misses out. Unfair advantage, though the 2 minutes is thick
Re: Porte Penalised 2 minutes for getting Clarkes Wheel -Fai
Exactly. In the end it is all very unfortunate but the penalty was unavoidable. The source of it all remains a cataclysmic mismanagement of a typical road racing problem, ie a puncture, by Sky :
1/ Porte parking on the left side of the road so that the car misses him. this is beyond stupid of him really, he should get obliterated for that, this is gross professional misconduct at this stage because it is also very dangerous as the it's the fast lane where the motorcade goes. What happens if the car stops suddenly and gets hit by another DS car behind not expecting a car to stop on the left hand side ?
2/ Porte isolated enough that he takes the wheel from someone else than a teammate. We see he had one teammate with him and what do both these rabbits in the headlight do ? Just look at Clarke giving his wheel so that they can try and chase straight away!!! The teammate's job was to just jump out of the saddle and give his wheel first, and think about chasing later. This is again just completely stupid of both of them.
3/ than you have the piss poor chase after that with Porte stuck to the road hardly keeping up with his teammate, whether out of wind or mismanaging draft, this is just stupid again.
In the end the penalty is harsh, but it is only the end result of a series of blunders by 1/ Porte 2/ his teammates 3/ the Sky org on the race.
At the end of the day, despite the bitterness they might harbor, they will see that THEY managed to turn a classic and manageable misfortune (puncture) into a catastrophy of epic proportions for them. Sucks for Porte and his team, but it's their fault in the end.
Scarponi said:
Exactly. In the end it is all very unfortunate but the penalty was unavoidable. The source of it all remains a cataclysmic mismanagement of a typical road racing problem, ie a puncture, by Sky :
1/ Porte parking on the left side of the road so that the car misses him. this is beyond stupid of him really, he should get obliterated for that, this is gross professional misconduct at this stage because it is also very dangerous as the it's the fast lane where the motorcade goes. What happens if the car stops suddenly and gets hit by another DS car behind not expecting a car to stop on the left hand side ?
2/ Porte isolated enough that he takes the wheel from someone else than a teammate. We see he had one teammate with him and what do both these rabbits in the headlight do ? Just look at Clarke giving his wheel so that they can try and chase straight away!!! The teammate's job was to just jump out of the saddle and give his wheel first, and think about chasing later. This is again just completely stupid of both of them.
3/ than you have the piss poor chase after that with Porte stuck to the road hardly keeping up with his teammate, whether out of wind or mismanaging draft, this is just stupid again.
In the end the penalty is harsh, but it is only the end result of a series of blunders by 1/ Porte 2/ his teammates 3/ the Sky org on the race.
At the end of the day, despite the bitterness they might harbor, they will see that THEY managed to turn a classic and manageable misfortune (puncture) into a catastrophy of epic proportions for them. Sucks for Porte and his team, but it's their fault in the end.
- Mar 29, 2012
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What I understood from Porte's press talk is that his whole team was waiting at the RIGHT side of the road, while Porte was at the LEFT. So by the time some team mates could cross (with all cars / cyclists / motors in the mix), Clarke already stopped and offered the wheel.
So why was Porte at the left? This is like number one rule, starting from amateur racing: for the safety and convenience of fixing mechanics, always stop at the right side of the road. I feel that Porte made an error here.
So why was Porte at the left? This is like number one rule, starting from amateur racing: for the safety and convenience of fixing mechanics, always stop at the right side of the road. I feel that Porte made an error here.
Stuff like this brings out the worst in internet forums.
All this talk about Skybots, Mediterranean conspiracies, Richie had no chance anyway, blah blah blah.
Personally, I think it is likely that Contador would have beaten Porte by a minute approximately before all this. Richie was riding very well, has targeted this tour and he had the ITT to come. He had a chance of winning it for sure. Albeit, Alberto was favourite.
I think it is very, very hard for him to win now. He still has a chance though. Who knows how Contador will go in the ITT and high mountains after his shoulder injury? Aru might lose a lot of time in the mountains. But it is a long shot.
And as for the punishment, it is harsh, but fair. Libertine Seguros has made some good points, which I agree with. If Izagirre was to give his wheel to Contador or if Cunego were to give his wheel to Aru on Sestrieres there would be uproar if it were unpunished.
Personally, if I were in charge, I would have tried to make an exception. Give 1 minute or something and make it clear that it is only being given leniently as it was a flat stage and no malice intended. But ultimately, Sky and Richie can't complain.
All this talk about Skybots, Mediterranean conspiracies, Richie had no chance anyway, blah blah blah.
Personally, I think it is likely that Contador would have beaten Porte by a minute approximately before all this. Richie was riding very well, has targeted this tour and he had the ITT to come. He had a chance of winning it for sure. Albeit, Alberto was favourite.
I think it is very, very hard for him to win now. He still has a chance though. Who knows how Contador will go in the ITT and high mountains after his shoulder injury? Aru might lose a lot of time in the mountains. But it is a long shot.
And as for the punishment, it is harsh, but fair. Libertine Seguros has made some good points, which I agree with. If Izagirre was to give his wheel to Contador or if Cunego were to give his wheel to Aru on Sestrieres there would be uproar if it were unpunished.
Personally, if I were in charge, I would have tried to make an exception. Give 1 minute or something and make it clear that it is only being given leniently as it was a flat stage and no malice intended. But ultimately, Sky and Richie can't complain.
Re:
That's the crazy thing. Even if you have a puncture while on the left hand side of the peloton, just go right to stop... This is the cardinal and original mistake he made, it might sound very small, but it is the source and origin of all that came after. And it is HIS mistake, and his only.
Volderke said:
That's the crazy thing. Even if you have a puncture while on the left hand side of the peloton, just go right to stop... This is the cardinal and original mistake he made, it might sound very small, but it is the source and origin of all that came after. And it is HIS mistake, and his only.
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Whilst there is no doubt that Clarke's act was completely well-intentioned and admirable; the race jury was left with little alternative. Firstly, the act itself was "advertised' by Porte and others on social media and arguably race juries are "in the firing line" for NOT acting on the mass "disobedience" of riders at the level crossing at Paris-Roubaix. We ARE entitled to ask "would Clarke have done the same for Contador, Aru or any other non-Australian rider outside his team"? He may indeed do so; his previous team before OGE WAS Astana & he's ridden for Italian teams, lives in Italy and speaks fluent Italian ...... but we cannot know that. Sadly, the history of the sport knows cases of outright "collusion" between riders and between teams so the rules are there for a reason. Matthews helping to "relay" Porte back = defensible as he could argue his own self interest in doing so.
Completely agree that SKY does NOT come out of this looking too sharp. Porte does appear to have gone to the wrong side of the road to facilitate service and the team car may've gone past. The picture of the SKY rider looking on whilst Clarke was effecting the wheel transfer is NOT a good look. Whilst this rider may've been thinking forward to "relaying" Porte back; the requirement of a spare wheel or bike for the team leader should take precedence.
Completely agree that SKY does NOT come out of this looking too sharp. Porte does appear to have gone to the wrong side of the road to facilitate service and the team car may've gone past. The picture of the SKY rider looking on whilst Clarke was effecting the wheel transfer is NOT a good look. Whilst this rider may've been thinking forward to "relaying" Porte back; the requirement of a spare wheel or bike for the team leader should take precedence.
Re: Re:
I do think rules are applied selectively, didn't Contador change his bike in an earlier stage?
Speaking of bike changes, riders always get a big push to get going again.....never penalised.
Common sense seems to go out the window, ok if you've got a flat or crashed, but what about when you are doing it to gain some advantage?
Jancouver said:
I do think rules are applied selectively, didn't Contador change his bike in an earlier stage?
Speaking of bike changes, riders always get a big push to get going again.....never penalised.
Common sense seems to go out the window, ok if you've got a flat or crashed, but what about when you are doing it to gain some advantage?
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Ok, so let me get this straight. We argue for thousands of pages about whether Contador should wait for Shleck because he can't change his gears, but we are happy to "follow the rules" when a contender has a puncture and receives a wheel from another rider.
Wtf is going on in this sport? You have a chance to celebrate something bigger than cycling and you make the sport look like a joke. LA can stand on the podium for 7 tours but we will punish a bloke for accepting the support of one of his fellow riders?
You tell yourself whatever story you want but the contradictions of the sport don't do it any favours. I am sick of the siht about the "spirit" of cycling. I have been racing since the 70's and the spirit of cycling was upheld by the riders today and let down by the officials. It is not about whether you like Richie Porte it is about whether you can see a bigger picture. Clearly most can't.
Wtf is going on in this sport? You have a chance to celebrate something bigger than cycling and you make the sport look like a joke. LA can stand on the podium for 7 tours but we will punish a bloke for accepting the support of one of his fellow riders?
You tell yourself whatever story you want but the contradictions of the sport don't do it any favours. I am sick of the siht about the "spirit" of cycling. I have been racing since the 70's and the spirit of cycling was upheld by the riders today and let down by the officials. It is not about whether you like Richie Porte it is about whether you can see a bigger picture. Clearly most can't.
Re:
Yep. If you where in a high security factory setting, Porte and his teammate would come up with big penalties for such blatant procedural mistakes. I mean a puncture and those type of accidents should activate some sort of mental checklist :
1/ share info with teammate closest to me or radio if alone
2/ Ensure car or teammate are here to help me (change wheel)
3/ stop and do the change as soon as possible in the correct security setting (RIGHT HAND SIDE of the road) with aforementionned car or teammate.
4/ Ride on and be joined by teammates to do the chase.
This was just procedure, this was like a pit stop in a Formula 1 : you just follow the checklist as fast and efficiently as possible and Porte just completely blew it by stopping immediately while isolated, on the wrong side of the road, being missed by the team car (who I would have to check but could have been penalised for stopping on the left hand side and blocking traffic and/or making other cars to overtake on the right hand side), seeing some teammates on the other side of the road separated by the DS cars and stragglers passing by until they can cross and eventually taking Clarke's wheel instead...
I mean this was just factory floor level procedure to be followed, it just requires a bit of repetition and strict following of the mental checklist (which any non braindead rider has internalized by age 18) and Porte just completely blew... The more time passes the more astonished I am by his mistakes here.
dirkprovin said:
Yep. If you where in a high security factory setting, Porte and his teammate would come up with big penalties for such blatant procedural mistakes. I mean a puncture and those type of accidents should activate some sort of mental checklist :
1/ share info with teammate closest to me or radio if alone
2/ Ensure car or teammate are here to help me (change wheel)
3/ stop and do the change as soon as possible in the correct security setting (RIGHT HAND SIDE of the road) with aforementionned car or teammate.
4/ Ride on and be joined by teammates to do the chase.
This was just procedure, this was like a pit stop in a Formula 1 : you just follow the checklist as fast and efficiently as possible and Porte just completely blew it by stopping immediately while isolated, on the wrong side of the road, being missed by the team car (who I would have to check but could have been penalised for stopping on the left hand side and blocking traffic and/or making other cars to overtake on the right hand side), seeing some teammates on the other side of the road separated by the DS cars and stragglers passing by until they can cross and eventually taking Clarke's wheel instead...
I mean this was just factory floor level procedure to be followed, it just requires a bit of repetition and strict following of the mental checklist (which any non braindead rider has internalized by age 18) and Porte just completely blew... The more time passes the more astonished I am by his mistakes here.
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