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Portugal's footballers dope?

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Jul 27, 2010
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Fester said:
Cycling is a team sport... Occasionally and with luck an individual might shine but it's 90% team work that wins.

What team have won last UCI Road World Championships or Olympic Games?
Cycling is only seemingly a team sport. The most important is GC of riders, also KOM and points classification is valuable and watched, while almost nobody cares about team classification (yes, there is prize money for teams too, I know). Of course, you usually need decent team, but you always need great leader(s) to win (GT).
In contrast to that, you are often successful with, let's say, mediocre or slightly above-average team without stars in all team sports. What about in cycling?

Fester said:
CYcling isn't more doped at all, in fact it's relatively backwards in its doping and relatively far ahead in it's controls. People expect cyclists to dope because of the difficulty of the sport.

Yes, cycling is relatively ahead in its controls, but regrettably no way relatively backwards in its doping. And people expect cyclists to dope because of repetitive positive tests, confessions of former winners and other riders, affairs like Festina, Puerto etc.

The Hitch said:
I will admit that you make a good and convincing argument. So well done for that. But I disagree with you based on a few points.
1 You say there is no evidence for systematic doping in football.
I say, operation puerto, and the Juventus trial, where it was found that epo and other substances were being used.
2 A lot of people thought athletics/ speed skating/ our thing were clean in the early 90's and we now know they werent, and thanks to investigations we know that this was not the case. Football has not had any investigations of the sort. It denies doping occurs full stop. But doping is often a guilty until proven innocent charge. Especially in sports were money is involved and were doping would help a lot (association football fits the bill) and were no efforts are made to combat it.

1. Well, I compared it to cycling, so I should have said systematic, widespread/omnipresent and continuous. :rolleyes:
Although, I think there were/are attempts to do that in some clubs – just like Juve. Finally there was nothing proven with certainty, no EPO found… but I doubt it was “fully kosher”.
However, it was Zdenek Zeman, who accused Juve players and started the whole case. I know him as an honest and principled person, always fighting against drugs and bribery in football. He was team manager of AS Roma back then, formerly managed other Italian teams – Lazio, Foggia, Parma, Messina etc. He began to suspect some players, he saw only from time to time (his father was doctor, so Zeman has some knowledge) and then:
- could he not notice his own players were also doped? Seems impossible.
- he knew his players were also doped and acted like the biggest hypocrite? Hard to believe (at least for people, who know him well)
It leads to conclusion – whatever it was in Juve, it wasn’t standard practise.
The other examples are associated with Fuentes – Elche CF and UD Las Palmas. I don’t suppose he prescribed them vitamins, but it didn’t work (there was no success) and it was obviously over after some time.
Puerto was closed too early to reveal something big. AFAIK there are only rumours about top clubs involved, but seems to me not probable. At least that Fuentes worked directly with Real, Barca, Valencia and Sevilla.

2. I disagree.
- At the same time a lot of people were convinced, that endurance& strength sports were not clean (long ago).
- I don’t think in football doping helps a lot. Moreover, if you want to cheat, you can bribe – it’s by far more reliable, a lot easier, safer and probably also cheaper. The real plague of football is bribery, then Blatter, then referees (unbelievably still without video and other technical aid) and only then doping.

The Hitch said:
. Footballers get tested less frequently and less thoroughly.

As for frequency – It depends. Cycling is competition of riders, football is competition of teams (there are no individual winners). I admit, if you take drugs on your own, you have better chances as a football player. But if you are a top football team manager/doctor/whatever and you want systematically dope your team, “you” are tested almost continuously.
As for thoroughness – WADA president John Fahey:"FIFA has a robust and extensive anti-doping program and ... is fully compliant with the World Anti-Doping committee," he said. "The FIFA program is a very good program."
I see only one important difference – biological passports and FIFA wants introduce bio-passports soon. The noose is tightening in football too, so saying “no intention to look for something” - That’s a bit steep.

Libertine Seguros said:
Do you know the parameters to which they test? The things for which they test?

Growth hormones, the blood-boosting drugs, foreign blood transfusion as well as steroids. Anything else?

Libertine Seguros said:
Only four cyclists have been suspended regards it (Basso, Scarponi, Jäksche, Valverde), while others have been blacklisted.

More precisely - plus Caruso acquitted of involvement (and of 2 years ban from CONI) and Jan more or less forced to quit, while most of others were allowed to continue. “Surprisingly” some of them were later tested positively in other doping cases. And some people say UCI is taking anti-doping fight seriously. :rolleyes:

Libertine Seguros said:
But while it has been mis-managed on most levels by cycling authorities, it has been completely swept under the carpet by others.

In fact, it has been completely swept under the carpet by Spanish courts and prosecutors.
At least FIFA and IAAF asked for documents, but they didn’t get any. They were assured no players or track and field athletes were involved.

Libertine Seguros said:
And that's before we get to the amount of things tested for. Footballer gets a cortisone injection, plays for his team, he's a hero. Cyclist gets a cortisone injection, rides for his team, he's banned for two years.

Eh? I don’t think it’s so easy to play football with cortisone injections and become hero, because it’s prohibited and players are tested for cortisone.
But maybe they could do it, like “heroes” in cycling do/did :rolleyes:“He (Phillipe Gaumont ) gave details such as how to avoid being tested positive for corticoids: how, for instance, to irritate one's testicle sac using salt in order to provoke a rash and obtain a prescription for some corticoid cream. Since urine tests do not distinguish between (legal) corticoid applied as creams, with a prescription, and (illegal) injections, such prescriptions are used to mask doping.”

The Hitch said:
People often say that there is no doping in football because its a skill sport. So i have to ask (to those who know about baseball). In baseball they have had a lot of doping problems. Isnt that as much if not more a skill sport than association football?

As you indicated in other post – it’s a „kick and rush“ style, just like England national football team – totally unskilful :D (sorry, I couldn’t resist).

sherer said:
The Marseille team that won the European Cup, was it 90 or 91 was doping. There are comments, i think from Marcel Desailly, about being given pills to take. There were also stripped of the win due to bribes

Actually Desailly (and others) denied it. The comments were made by Jean-Jacques Eydelie, the man, who was found guilty of bribery in the case, you mentioned. (He was reportedly ordered by Tapie to do that, then was suspended for one year and fired from OM).
Although I consider Tapie one of the dirtiest people in football, not even Eydelie is very trustworthy and so is his story.

Benotti69 said:
France doctor alleges 1998 World Cup winners had blood test anomalies
• Jean-Pierre Paclet makes claims in new book
• 'There were practices going on … that were borderline'

Perhaps you should quote more precisely:
In reference to midfield stars Zinedine Zidane and Didier Deschamps who both played at Juventus, the doctor said, “it’s public knowledge that there were practices which were borderline, to say the least, at Juventus at that time”

Jean-Marcel Ferret, the team doctor in 1998, also reacted angrily, saying he was "flabbergasted" by the allegations. "We found nothing," he said. "There were only two slight anomalies in terms of hematocrit levels. But they were linked to tiredness from the league."

Seems like effort to squeeze something more from “Juve affair”. He really is saying what everyone knows.
Oct 16, 2009
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Hiding in plain sight?

Footballers spin and purify the blood in order to shorten the time damage

New treatment may in some cases halving injury period.

For about seven weeks ago limped Tomasz Sokolowski training path to Viking with violent pain in the thigh. MRI study confirmed that the adductor muscle in his thigh was completely torn up in the mount.

The prognosis he received was discouraging. Sokolowski could forget the rest of the 2010 season. Midfielder and Viking decided jointly to contact Volvat medical center in Oslo for further investigation.

New treatment
There, they came quickly in conversations with Dr. Erik Rosenlund Apolonius. The well-known sports doctor suggested a relatively new type of treatment.

- The treatment occurs in that we draw some blood from the patient. The blood is placed in a specially designed container, which spun in a machine. The container is a filter that separates the serum, red blood cells and platelets from each other. The platelets we are looking for. They constitute about five ml of the 60 ml we pull out. Blood plates are then injected directly into the injury area, "says Rosenlund to TV2 Sport.
Original: http://www.tv2sporten.no/fotball/ti...odet-for-aa-korte-ned-skadetiden-3285170.html


This seem kinda dodgy to any of you? Obviously these players aren't doing anything illegal, but that doesn't make it ethical. I mean, blood doping wasn't illegal back in the 70s and 80s, but looking back now we can see it gave an unfair advantage.

Also, just the idea that club doctors are using blood sentrifuges doesn't feel... "right". And this stuff is going on in a tiny scandinavian league... I don't know, I definitely don't think football is quite as clean and shiny as it pretends to be.