Portugal's footballers dope?

[Benotti69]

Portugal's national team football coach gets upset at surprise visit by testers


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/20/carlos-queiroz-ban

to remind us that cyclists are not the only ones looking to gain an advantage over their competitors.

i did notice it happened back in May and that it is receiving very little media coverage and no one is suggesting that football might be using PEDs nowadays. Media omerta.

 

[bommels]

Related news: a Belgian football player, playing for a Dutch team, has been suspended for 2 years after he tested positive for steroids (stanazolol).

He is a 22 year old defender, playing for a not very highly regarded club.

So apparently it is not only the Portugese who dope - or get checked every now and then. I leave the drawing of less obvious conclusions to the reader

 

[Jux1893]

He was suspended for insulting one of the doctor's conducting the test, since it was taken before 8a.m., at a time the players were suposed to be sleeping.

This happened in May, and only in late July he was accused of it. It is largely stated that it was in order to create just cause to fire him, not really doping related.

I'm impressed how is it possible for 552 tests, made during the World Cup, none have came out positive. Even with North Korea in the mix.

I don't think football is cleaner than cycling, McQuaid just isn't as "competent" in hiding it as Blatter.

 

[Merckx index]

He was suspended for insulting one of the doctor's conducting the test, since it was taken before 8a.m., at a time the players were suposed to be sleeping.

He wanted to take a shower first.

 

[Jux1893]

He wanted to take a shower first.

He wasn't the one taking the test. Queiroz is the Portuguese Coach, and he was the one that got suspended.

 

[Benotti69]

He was suspended for insulting one of the doctor's conducting the test, since it was taken before 8a.m., at a time the players were suposed to be sleeping.

This happened in May, and only in late July he was accused of it. It is largely stated that it was in order to create just cause to fire him, not really doping related.

I'm impressed how is it possible for 552 tests, made during the World Cup, none have came out positive. Even with North Korea in the mix.

I don't think football is cleaner than cycling, McQuaid just isn't as "competent" in hiding it as Blatter.

football has a lot more money than cycling. are the samples analysed in Switzerland or the country of the test?

football has more money to spend on their programs

 

[The Hitch]

football has a lot more money than cycling. are the samples analysed in Switzerland or the country of the test?

football has more money to spend on their programs

Not to mention that there are far less tests in football. Far far less. And as far as i know (though im not sure) they dont get tested on match days (like cyclists get doping control after races).

 

[Jux1893]

In this particular case it was the Portuguese Anti Doping Agency, so, tests off competiton are made by the own country Agency.

During competition, like the World Cup or to teams participating in the UEFA Champions League, the tests are conducted, I think, by an International Agency, probably a Swiss one, since UEFA and FIFA have their headquarters in Switzerland.

These are my supositions, haven't got any threads to support this, only this nice link teaching players how to behave during a anti-doping test

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/AntiDoping/uefaorg/Anti-doping/93/79/49/937949_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

[Jux1893]

they dont get tested on match days (like cyclists get doping control after races).

Usually there is at least one player from each team that pees in the cup after a game, but only at high level matches.

I've got that there were 552 test at the World Cup. Anyone knows how many there were in the Tour.

In the World Cup there were 736 players and 30 days of competiton.

 

[The Hitch]

Usually there is at least one player from each team that pees in the cup after a game, but only at high level matches.

I've got that there were 552 test at the World Cup. Anyone knows how many there were in the Tour.

In the World Cup there were 736 players and 30 days of competiton.

Even though weve had a few of these football threads in the clinic it is a subject which interests me so i participate every time. Last such thread, interesting articles and statistics were presented.

Here is a post from LS

You want stuff on football?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2388078/Arsenal-players-used-EPO-says-Wenger.html
- Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger is convinced teams he bought players from were doping them

http://www.thetruefootball.com/2009/07/are-footballers-above-doping-suspicion.html
- a very interesting blog post about football's reaction to Operación Puerto

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7721593.stm
- PFA (players' association) resists attempts to bring testing in football in line with WADA code

and regarding what happens if you get caught

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7069717.ece
- Times article including the following doozies of fun facts about how clean soccer is:
> 2 British league teams have been fined for repeat offences in failing to inform testers of players' whereabouts
> players are not allowed to miss three tests in an 18-month period, but are allowed to miss tests. So if you're tested 1 or 2 times a season as David James said in the other article, you could easily cover a long time. In fact, if you're like the Arsenal players who weren't tested in 5 years, then you could conceivably be tested three times in ten years, not turn up to any of them, and not be sanctioned!
> From Jan.2008 to Aug.2009, 96 British league footballers failed to show up to a test. An additional 2 footballers failed to turn up to two tests.
> There are 92 league teams in England and Wales. 35 of these are on at least one strike for failing to provide whereabouts info, of which 13 have two strikes.
> The heaviest suspension ever provided for a doping violation in the UK football community was Rio Ferdinand, who was banned 8 months for skipping a drugs test by running away.

And more importantly ( to this discussion) the frequency of the tests

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/mar/15/drugs-in-football-david-james
- England goalkeeper David James rambles about how football has no doping problem as the number of positive tests is so low but admits only being tested once or twice a season, and that Arsène Wenger has complained that some of his players have been playing for five years without being tested once

 

[LugHugger]

Portugal's national team football coach gets upset at surprise visit by testers


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/20/carlos-queiroz-ban

to remind us that cyclists are not the only ones looking to gain an advantage over their competitors.

i did notice it happened back in May and that it is receiving very little media coverage and no one is suggesting that football might be using PEDs nowadays. Media omerta.

I brought up OP and the rumoured Spanish soccer teams involvement in a discussion with my footy mad father in law during the World Cup. He could not get his head around PED's in soccer. I told him he was being naive considering the amount of cash washing around the sport. The info was not very well received......

 

[Fester]

Even though weve had a few of these football threads in the clinic it is a subject which interests me so i participate every time. Last such thread, interesting articles and statistics were presented.

Here is a post from LS



and regarding what happens if you get caught



And more importantly ( to this discussion) the frequency of the tests

I can up the ante a bit:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/football/08/11/sudden.death.syndrome/index.html

because?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_footballers_who_died_while_playing

Look at the number of cardiac arrests in the last two decades versus the entire previous century.

Also what was happening in Italy?

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/short/128/3/472

In terms of Queiroz, how about Ferguson running to his support; Nani being a Man U player and all.

There was a nice article with a diagram on sudden cardiac deaths in football, but I couldn't find it. Suffice to say they were few before the nineties, lots since.

Again doping or no doping people should be looking after these people's health!

 

[The Hitch]

Quick point about the money in football. It is a lot compared to sports like this thing of ours where someone like frei doped to get as much money in a year as 2nd class footballers get in a week.

 

[sagard]

Quick point about the money in football. It is a lot compared to sports like this thing of ours where someone like frei doped to get as much money in a year as 2nd class footballers get in a week.

Yep it's comical to think the big US sports are clean when they won't submit to blood tests. In addition to the fact they are typically vying for at minimum a $1M US contract. There is so much money involved that either the teams could support it directly, or players could afford just about any doctor.

 

[akrogirl]

I brought up OP and the rumoured Spanish soccer teams involvement in a discussion with my footy mad father in law during the World Cup. He could not get his head around PED's in soccer. I told him he was being naive considering the amount of cash washing around the sport. The info was not very well received......

There were several teams/players I was suspicious about during the World Cup. Too many players seemed unnaturally fresh after running pretty hard. I have followed football for many, many years and well remember the days of players looking totally exhausted after a hard match - not so much anymore and I don't believe for one minute that it is all due to better training.

The same with tennis. I have voiced my concerns to my husband on several occasions. There are a handful of players in particular that I would be wiling to bet money on as having doped.

 

[The Hitch]

I can up the ante a bit:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/football/08/11/sudden.death.syndrome/index.html

because?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_footballers_who_died_while_playing

Look at the number of cardiac arrests in the last two decades versus the entire previous century.

Also what was happening in Italy?

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/short/128/3/472

In terms of Queiroz, how about Ferguson running to his support; Nani being a Man U player and all.

There was a nice article with a diagram on sudden cardiac deaths in football, but I couldn't find it. Suffice to say they were few before the nineties, lots since.

Again doping or no doping people should be looking after these people's health!

Many thanks for that.

The one that jumps out is Puerta. No health problems history. I know it could have been a freak occurence but I do expect some Spanish footballers to suffer from this sort of thing. THey put more money into football than any other country and given what clients of fuentes said about meeting very famous footballers at his clinic, i suspect its very broad there (+ in italy where they had the juve doping scandal)

I guess with the cardiac arrests this century to last century comparison, football has grown a lot in the last few years, so the increase can be put down to more people playing football and better media coverage.

If you look at the behaviour of these footballers, (and in england footballers are by far the most important people in the country, household names and all) these are definately people for whom any extra boost to performance would be worth it. They get in fights often, and throw away any honour by trying to decieve the referee for the smallest decisions. And the money involved, madone.

Then you look at peds and they can definately provide the boosts these people seek.

Far more honest people have given in to the temptation to take peds, and in the case of runners and cyclists, with a far greater risk (due to more testing) and less reward ( less money to gain).

It is highly probable that today in football is like the late 80s in athletics and the 90's in cycling. Few people knew about how bad doping had got in those sports then while everyone was doing it.

But i think people wont find out about it in football.

Celebrities (the people that make the most money for the papers/ sports etc) are generaly protected. - Usain Bolt the Jamaican wonderkid, while the lesser known Justin Gatlins of the world, who btw dont come close to bolts time get busted. Lance Armstrong the man who came back from death while everyone else in all of cycling for busted. Carl Lewis the superolympian and sportsman of the century got protected while Ben Johnson got busted. People dont like being told their heroes are frauds. Which sport has far far more heroes and makes multiple times more money than any other sport. I dont expect any tests or revelations in this sport.

 

[The Hitch]

There were several teams/players I was suspicious about during the World Cup. Too many players seemed unnaturally fresh after running pretty hard. I have followed football for many, many years and well remember the days of players looking totally exhausted after a hard match - not so much anymore and I don't believe for one minute that it is all due to better training.

.

This is the clinic. Dont be shy to speculate who. For me Spain #1 obviously (due to Puerto and Puerta, not because they eventually won).
Germany#2
as for players, messi duh. What was that growth hormone treatment he got as a child funded by the billion dollar machine that is barca fc.

The same with tennis. I have voiced my concerns to my husband on several occasions. There are a handful of players in particular that I would be wiling to bet money on as having doped

None called rafa though right

 

[The Hitch]

Yep it's comical to think the big US sports are clean when they won't submit to blood tests. In addition to the fact they are typically vying for at minimum a $1M US contract. There is so much money involved that either the teams could support it directly, or players could afford just about any doctor.

but dont sports in the US have public drug problems? i know ive heard a lot about drugs in baseball and congress investigating doping in proffessional wrestling and jokes about people complaining that their local american football teams were insufficiently doped.

In european cycling the term omerta (taken from mafia terms) describes the silence on the issue taken by cyclists who wont talk about doping and if you break omerta you get the wrath of your fellow cyclists.
In european football the term omerta describes the silence on the issue taken by the entire continent and if you break omerta you get the wrath of millions of people. It has never really occured to anyone outside the cycling news forums that doping in soccer is a possibility.

 

[Fester]

In european football the term omerta describes the silence on the issue taken by the entire continent and if you break omerta you get the wrath of millions of people. It has never really occured to anyone outside the cycling news forums that doping in soccer is a possibility.

Funny and true. Groups of people tend to be stupid... Even entire continents. People tend to believe doping would not yield a benefit in a field sport

 

[craig1985]

Zinadine Zidane said they needed some help because they have to play 50-60 games a season.

 

[Benotti69]

.............



.... Carl Lewis the superolympian and sportsman of the century got protected while Ben Johnson got busted. People dont like being told their heroes are frauds. Which sport has far far more heroes and makes multiple times more money than any other sport. I dont expect any tests or revelations in this sport.

Carl Lewis failed a test at the trials for those olympics, but it was covered up......then after the olympics and even today preached like the saviour of the sport and him doing it clean...

Man Utd had a player banned for 8 months for leaving the training ground and avoiding the testers, he allegedly forgot they were there.. he came back after an hour, but no doubt cleaned his system in the mean time.

 

[doxter]

Carl Lewis failed a test at the trials for those olympics, but it was covered up......then after the olympics and even today preached like the saviour of the sport and him doing it clean...

Man Utd had a player banned for 8 months for leaving the training ground and avoiding the testers, he allegedly forgot they were there.. he came back after an hour, but no doubt cleaned his system in the mean time.

was it the case that the player who missed that test , rio ferdinand , had recently returned from a longi'sh term injury ??

what are the possibilities - and was queiroz at manchester united then ?

 

[Benotti69]

was it the case that the player who missed that test , rio ferdinand , had recently returned from a longi'sh term injury ??

Ferdinand, yep. Did he return from an injury, not sure, was he injured soon after he signed or signed as an injured player?

what are the possibilities - and was queiroz at manchester united then ?

High, but i imagine google will provide the answer to that quick enough

 

[sida-mot]

Doping in football?

Well the money is certainly bigger.
They have the know how.
Very low risk.


Yeah I can't figure it out...

 

[Mambo95]

My thoughts on this. I'll say straight up that I don't think football is clean, but lets have a slightly objective view on procedings.

Let's start with Rio Ferdinand. I'm a West Ham fan and Rio managed to cultivate an image of him being absent-minded and forgetful even then. I really don't think this was a pre-cursor to missing a drug test.

The general opinion of Ferdinand's test, in order, is:

1. Rio is stupid
2. Rio was doing a bit of coke
3. Rio was taking medicine for the clap.

Back then English football had no whereabouts scheme (I'm not sure if they do now). So if they were doping with EPO etc, they would just be 'injured with a doctor' far away from the training ground.

The thing with football is that doping won't do much for an individual - it has to be at a team level. Being able to run all day is great, but 90 hard minutes of Carrick doesn't equal 60 minutes of Xavi. No amount of dope will make a Swansea City centre midfielder into Steven Gerrard.

Now, if a team is on a programme, then they'd pick it up in the March onwards period, when the key fixtures come thick and fast. Anything prior to that should have been taken care of by squad superiority. That's when they'll dope. I think it makes them talented for longer, but it doesn't make them more talented. But it may cause a crucial edge in fitness in the last minutes.

Ultimately, my point is there is probably doping in football, but it will never make a donkey into a racehorse, to use a clinic cycling term (which I'm not entirely convinced by)