Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

[Wallace and Gromit]

Just found some data about the 04 MTT of Alpe D'Huez:

http://letour.over-blog.com/article-1572872.html

Moncoutié forever the best

Stage result:

1. Lance Armstrong 39 min 41 s
2. Jan Ullrich 1 min 01 s
3. Andreas Klöden 1 min 41 s
4. José Azevedo 1 min 45 s
5. Santos Gonzalez 2 min 10 s
6. Giuseppe Guerini 2 min 11 s
7. Vladimir Karpets 2 min 14 s
8. Ivan Basso 2 min 22 s
9. David Moncoutié m.t.
10. Carlos Sastre 2 min 27 s

Note that the TT that day started in the town centre, so the climb started a couple of minutes into the TT.

From what I've read elsewhere, Lance took approx 37:30 for the ascent itself, marginally slower than Pantani's record time, and around 30s slower than after "The Look" in 2001.

 

[halamala]

Note that the TT that day started in the town centre, so the climb started a couple of minutes into the TT.

From what I've read elsewhere, Lance took approx 37:30 for the ascent itself, marginally slower than Pantani's record time, and around 30s slower than after "The Look" in 2001.

Pantani 36:50 1995
Armstrong 37:36 2004
Armstrong 38:05 2001

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Pantani 36:50 1995
Armstrong 37:36 2004
Armstrong 38:05 2001

Thanks - The data I was reading had P's 1995 time as just over 38 minutes, which did seem rather slow. Good as Lance was when fully prepared, Pantani was better uphill when also fully prepared.

Am I allowed to say that it would have been an epic encounter between the two in a GT if both on top of their form?

 

[taiwan]

No, again as I have said earlier in this thread. When calculating from distance, time and altitude meters you do not need to know the weight, you get w/kg straight from the equation. It is when converting to absolute watts you need the weight.

Also, since Voeckler were at the front only for about 2 min at the end he would be a good bit below 6,3 due to drafting effects. Factor in the slight adjustments to distance mentioned above and you get app 5,9 - 6 w/kg. for the first climb of the day. Not at all,super human.

Maybe you or someone else can clear this up. When obtaining a W/kg via VAM, surely what you have is a power per kilo of mass being pushed up the climb for a particular rate of ascent? After all, the speed you go uphill is dependent on the weight of your bike as well as of yourself. Hence, from a W/kg value obtained in this way, to get the wattage the rider is pushing shouldn't you multiply by total rider + equipment weight (f.i. if Vayer had used 70kg rider weight and 8kg equipment to get 442W, that would imply the W/kg associated with the speed of ascent would be 5.67 W/kg)? Finally, to get a power per bodyweight (a different metric expressed in the same units - the one a rider wants to optimise), you should divide the W by the rider's bodyweight. Just trying to unpick when you count the bike and when you don't, because it seems VAM could not be proportional to power/bodyweight when the fraction of power pushing the bike's dead weight will vary from rider to rider. Is this right? It could be that the variation is small enough to be ignored for such a quick calculation.

If the VAM formula gave 5.67W/kg, using more realistic masses for TV and his bike you get 6.36W/kg power per bodyweight, not taking drafting etc. into account.

 

[Sigmund]

Maybe you or someone else can clear this up. When obtaining a W/kg via VAM, surely what you have is a power per kilo of mass being pushed up the climb for a particular rate of ascent? After all, the speed you go uphill is dependent on the weight of your bike as well as of yourself. Hence, from a W/kg value obtained in this way, to get the wattage the rider is pushing shouldn't you multiply by total rider + equipment weight (f.i. if Vayer had used 70kg rider weight and 8kg equipment to get 442W, that would imply the W/kg associated with the speed of ascent would be 5.67 W/kg)? Finally, to get a power per bodyweight (a different metric expressed in the same units - the one a rider wants to optimise), you should divide the W by the rider's bodyweight. Just trying to unpick when you count the bike and when you don't, because it seems VAM could not be proportional to power/bodyweight when the fraction of power pushing the bike's dead weight will vary from rider to rider. Is this right? It could be that the variation is small enough to be ignored for such a quick calculation.

If the VAM formula gave 5.67W/kg, using more realistic masses for TV and his bike you get 6.36W/kg power per bodyweight, not taking drafting etc. into account.

As I understand it, In Halamalas calculations bike weight is already stripped out.

But it is True that it is not entirely correct that weight doesnt matter, the weight of the bike and gear means that you will be a little bit off without knowing the rider weight. The difference is so small however that it really doesn't matter much.

Since what comes out of the equation is w/kg including the bike and gear you need to adjust the number accordingly, if you assume rider weight of 75 and you are 5 kg off this is only app 0,07 w/kg, assuming 8 kg bike and gear weight.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

@Vaughters Collada de la Gallina (last 7 km, 8.03 %, 562 m). Andrew Talansky: 21 min 11 sec, 19.83 Kph, VAM 1592 m/h, 5.68 W/kg. #vuelta2012

 

[Red Rick]

More calculations of the Vuelta: Arrate, Valderazzay or whatever, Jaca and Gallina?

 

[jens_attacks]

More calculations of the Vuelta: Arrate, Valderazzay or whatever, Jaca and Gallina?

http://climbing-records.blogspot.ro/

i will try to update it as fast as i can.that's only the speeds,no watts and VAM

and remember:

faster is better

 

[Ferminal]

Gallina was quite slow then.

No proper climbs yet though, Covadonga will probably give us the truest indication of how well they are going.

 

[iZnoGouD]

1000 m/hr = ?? w/kg

i want know how much of a beast i'am! hehe

 

[halamala]

1000 m/hr = ?? w/kg

i want know how much of a beast i'am! hehe

Useful information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_ascent_velocity

 

[nogav1ca]

1000 m/hr = ?? w/kg

i want know how much of a beast i'am! hehe

W/kg = VAM/(200 + %*10)

so if climb is 7,5% and you climbed with 1000 m/h, it's like this:

1000/(200+7,5*10)=
=1000/(200+75)=
=3,64 W/kg

 

[Havetts]

2012:10 km@4,4%---19:17---average speed 31.11 km/h(Fredrik Kessiakoff)

440 Höhenmeter [m]
10 Streckenlänge [Km]
1157 Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec]
62 Gewicht Fahrer [kg] --> according to Wiki
8 Gewicht Fahrrad [kg]

Gives 7,2 watts/kg
[source] http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm

---

2012:1,9 km@13,1%---6:46---average speed 16.85 km/h(Joaquim Rodriguez)

249 Höhenmeter [m]
1.9 Streckenlänge [Km]
406 Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec]
58 Gewicht Fahrer [kg] --> according to Teamsite
8 Gewicht Fahrrad [kg]

7,5 w/kg for Purito today.

-----

2012:7,7 km@7,8%---21:21---average speed 21.64 km/h(Valverde-Rodriguez-Contador)

600 Höhenmeter [m]
7.7 Streckenlänge [Km]
1281 Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec]
61kg, 58kg , 62kg Gewicht Fahrer [kg] --> Wiki
8 Gewicht Fahrrad [kg]

Valverde : 6,4 w/kg
Rodriguez : 6,4 w/kg
Contador : 6,3 w/kg


----

All calculated with http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm

and the info Jens gave, altitude gained may be a few meters off..

 

[iZnoGouD]

W/kg = VAM/(200 + %*10)

so if climb is 7,5% and you climbed with 1000 m/h, it's like this:

1000/(200+7,5*10)=
=1000/(200+75)=
=3,64 W/kg

how long will it take me to double this FTP?

 

[nogav1ca]

how long will it take me to double this FTP?

Quite some time.

Reading Havetts' post, I remembered (if I'm not wrong) that W/kg are actually given per rider's weight, but calculating it from VAM, you'll get W/total weight.

So those W/kg you get from VAM multiply with yours plus bike's weight and then divide with your weight.

 

[meat puppet]

Anyr data from the last two Vuelta stages?

 

[Leadbelly]

Bit surprised there's not been any analysis on any of the Vuelta climbs. I had to go back to page 4 to find this thread.

Anyway I'm not much of a clinic reader, but I do enjoy this thread and the arguments and comparisons with previous ascents etc.

 

[luckyboy]

Last 3.1km today, thanks to @ammattipyoraily

Bola del Mundo (last 3.1 km, 12.0 %, 372 m). Rodriguez 13:12, Valverde 13:37, Contador 13:56, Moreno 13:56, Talansky 14:15, Mentshov 14:30.

Bola del Mundo (last 3.1 km, 12.0 %, 372 m). Rodriguez 13:12, 14.09 Kph, VAM 1691 m/h, 5.7 W/kg (57 kg) (poor road surface)

@Vaughters Bola del Mundo (last 3.1km, 12.0%, 372m). Andrew Talansky: 14:15, 13.05 Kph, VAM 1566 m/h, 5.1 W/kg (63 kg) (poor road surface).

Bola del Mundo (last 3.1 km, 12.0 %, 372 m). Joaquim Rodriguez was 53 sec faster that Vincenzo Nibali (2010). Purito 13:12, Nibali 14:05.
(Mosquera was 14:04 over the same distance)

 

[Parrulo]

which makes rodriguez a full minute 16 seconds faster then himself in 2010

 

[gilbertador]

Its not much of a surprise that the differences are like that J Rod should be better than Nibali on a 3km steep section, what it does go to show is how poor Contadors form is at the moment. I would expect a peak Contador to maybe be around 13:00 flat. J Rods improvement is strange and after the age of 30.

Unfortunately I missed the stage today but i would say the conditions in 2010 were significantly worse and the Mosquera attacked prior to the concrete section then as well. When Talansky is only 10 seconds off the winner you know the GT standard in 2010 was poor though

 

[killswitch]

J Rods improvement is strange and after the age of 30.

One of the reasons is Purito rode the Tour that year plus had more racing days before the start.

 

[webvan]

Certainly not very impressive numbers but it seems the VAM was low overall in this Vuelta with a lot of stop and go climbing, nothing that compares to PDBD or Toussuire or Peyresourde in the TDF, much more intense over there, but that's nothing new. It does mean though that Bertie still has a long way to go if he wants to win the next TDF, regardless of what the fanboys think.

 

[luckyboy]

It does mean though that Bertie still has a long way to go if he wants to win the next TDF, regardless of what the fanboys think.

Well he had a week's worth of racing in his legs before he came here so I'm guessing his build-up will be different next July.

 

[webvan]

Sure, but again, there's no reason to think at this time that he'll be able to do much damage if he tries to attack when the Sky train is pushing 450 watts, especially since Froome will be there to cover his attacks.

The mountains goat climbs on the Vuelta were funny and the stop and go attacking too but the raw numbers show that the TDF was raced with much more intensity...as always, which didn't prevent the haters to label it as a "boring" race.

 

[jens_attacks]

Certainly not very impressive numbers but it seems the VAM was low overall in this Vuelta with a lot of stop and go climbing, nothing that compares to PDBD or Toussuire or Peyresourde in the TDF, much more intense over there, but that's nothing new. It does mean though that Bertie still has a long way to go if he wants to win the next TDF, regardless of what the fanboys think.

difficult to compare because the stages were harder in le tour...but still i'd say the level in la vuelta was a little bit higher

times on bola del mundo:

http://climbing-records.blogspot.ro/2012/09/bola-del-mundo-purito-as-fast-as.html

last 3 kms with very bad surface and keep in mind the altitude.