Proof of government doping program in Russia

[the sceptic]

It was Britain all along. I should have known. Doping uncovered in Russian track and field (where they got 3 times as many medals as Britain), so Britain must have been doping in everything else.

Good work again guys.

Appears most of the medals came from the women. So I guess that means the men were clean? Does that make sense to you? Have a state sponsored doping program but only dope up female athletics? Don't think so, sorry.

 

[BullsFan22]

It was Britain all along. I should have known. Doping uncovered in Russian track and field (where they got 3 times as many medals as Britain), so Britain must have been doping in everything else.

Good work again guys.

GB torched the 2014 Euros, got more gold medals than any other delegation apart from the US and TONS of money has been invested in GB sports, athletics included for a number of years now. A lot of top British athletes train outside of Britain and have reaped the benefits. A lot of them have been associated with some suspicious individuals, training groups. Russia is a much easier target than Great Britain, heck, even Jamaica and Kenya are easier targets.

 

[BullsFan22]

from my posting in xc threads, you probably knew that i was well aware of the reto group...i even recently raised an eye brow about legkov breaking with burgermeister and behaving somewhat chaotically as if he was running away from ADAMS..that said, and this is a pure hunch, i would trust his time with reto much more than ANY time with their sprint coach kaminski...

regarding the second part of your post, i trust Hajo is a true enough professional with integrity, but his investigating priorities, or more accurately his publishing priorities, are likely set up by his government emplyer.

but i will say this, if there was ever an incentive to investigate doping in the norwegian xc skiing I would personally write a substantial check to see the effort lead by hajo.

First off, there will never be a big enough incentive to investigate doping in Norwegian xc skiing. If that ever happens, that sport would be in serious trouble. It would be much bigger than Armstrong's fall in the US, for example. Big teams, big stars have always been protected, are protected and will continue to be protected. The thing with Armstrong was that enough people and enough evidence was brought up to take him down, but had he been taken down while still racing and winning, it would have been a much bigger hammer blow.

Going back to the ARD and Russian doping, I do believe the Germans have an agenda. This is both political and cultural. I don't know if they are the sole drivers behind this bus or not, but ever since the Ukraine crisis came to the fore a year ago, Germany has become more and more aggressive toward Russia. Now it's turned into a sport investigation. I guess Germans do want another crack at Russia...

 

[spalco]

I don't understand many of the people in this thread. Sure it would be nice to have whistleblowers like that and similarly powerful reports made about Germany, Norway, UK, etc. (assuming similar stuff is going on there, which is not a given), but for now this is what it is, so why not just discuss that instead of derailing the topic with political talk?

Much of the debate here sounds like "everybody's doing it" excuses.

And btw. I doubt the head of any German or British doping lab is playing Ferrari right now, selling drugs and "training plans" to athletes...

Isn't one of the big lessons from the Armstrong/Postal scandal, that not all doping is equal?

 

[BullsFan22]

This should be sent to ARD and the 'investigative' journalists over in Munich.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/09/s...-in-1970s-study-says.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[del1962]

GB torched the 2014 Euros, got more gold medals than any other delegation apart from the US and TONS of money has been invested in GB sports, athletics included for a number of years now. A lot of top British athletes train outside of Britain and have reaped the benefits. A lot of them have been associated with some suspicious individuals, training groups. Russia is a much easier target than Great Britain, heck, even Jamaica and Kenya are easier targets.

The US is a European country now, it might help if you got your basic facts right.

Love the way this thread is going, doping uncovered in Russia, lets blame the Brits

 

[neineinei]

IAAF reaction to German TV documentary

The IAAF has noted a number of grave allegations regarding doping activities related to the sport of athletics in Russia, which have been broadcast on the German TV channel ZDF/ARD on 3 December 2014.

An investigation by the IAAF Ethics Commission is already ongoing with respect to some of the allegations made in the documentary.

We would like to underline that the IAAF Ethics Commission is completely independent of the IAAF and has full powers to investigate and issue sanctions when relevant.

A transcript in English of the German TV documentary has been forwarded to the Ethics Commission.

With regard to matters revealed in the documentary related to anti-doping and, therefore outside the scope of the Ethics Commission, these will be studied carefully and dealt with according to the relevant IAAF rules and in full co-operation with WADA.

And then Reedie says:

Reedie, who is also an IOC vice president, said WADA was not in a position to take action against Russia's anti-doping lab or anti-doping agency.

"We don't have these powers," he said. "The next part of the process is in the hands of the IAAF ethics commission. That's where we are at the moment."

IAAF says they sent the case of corruption over to their independent ethics commision, but that any doping related matter will not be handled by the ethics commision, it is not their job. And then Reedie, head of the world anti doping agency, says the next part of the process is in the hands of IAAFs ethics commision?

And WADA used to be able to suspend dodgy doping labs before Reedie became president: http://www.insidethegames.biz/olymp...ratory-facing-suspension-on-eve-of-sochi-2014
but now they don't have the powers? What the heck happend? Isn't it WADA who accredit WADA accredited labs anymore?

 

[BullsFan22]

The US is a European country now, it might help if you got your basic facts right.

Love the way this thread is going, doping uncovered in Russia, lets blame the Brits

Whoops. Well, I think I've gone full *** with that...The thing is that if you look at the Brits, they've gone from being an also ran athletics nation to dominating and being right up there with the Russians and Americans, and we know what those two countries do to get an edge.

 

[del1962]

Whoops. Well, I think I've gone full *** with that...The thing is that if you look at the Brits, they've gone from being an also ran athletics nation to dominating and being right up there with the Russians and Americans, and we know what those two countries do to get an edge.

What is the topic of this thread?

 

[the sceptic]

Whoops. Well, I think I've gone full *** with that...The thing is that if you look at the Brits, they've gone from being an also ran athletics nation to dominating and being right up there with the Russians and Americans, and we know what those two countries do to get an edge.

True. Questions need to be asked about other nations.

If the sport was cleans then I would think someone with a state sponsored doping program would dominate more.

 

[python]

mother russia is getting a much needed support from norway...

http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/dop...lle-inntil-det-motsatte-er-bevist/a/23349329/

when asked their opinion about the german documentary, both bjørgen and northug spoke of trusting their russian competitors...

i found it curious, if not entertaining (in a humble way) that marit went further than petter in refuting some german evidence marit said she found it difficult to relate to the female discus thrower, who claimed on camera that 99% of russian elite dope (incidentally, she and marit have similar muscular builds )...johaug said basically the same.

and the 1st reactions, some hilarious, are coming from the accused and involved ...

the head of rusada rhetorically asked, 'did merkel personally dope Sachenbacher-Stehle ?

one anti-doping official implied in the documentary as a culprit, asked, 'do you trust hard facts or a flimsy (?) video recorded from under someone's skirt ?

 

[BullsFan22]

What is the topic of this thread?

Yes, the topic is systematic doping in Russia. The global question should still stand. I was just giving an example of the British government flooding money into British sports prior to the 2012 London Olympics and the athletes didn't disappoint, getting a record medal haul. Russia isn't the only country where doping is wide-spread, it is everywhere. The Russians are an easy target because, well....they are Russians...

 

[DirtyWorks]

IAAF says they sent the case of corruption over to their independent ethics commision, but that any doping related matter will not be handled by the ethics commision, it is not their job. And then Reedie, head of the world anti doping agency, says the next part of the process is in the hands of IAAFs ethics commision?

Nobody has authority over the sports federations. The guy accused of accepting bribes will quietly leave. The end. This is by design. This is why WADA is anti-doping theater. Technically, it's a great system. The politics makes it meaningless.

And WADA used to be able to suspend dodgy doping labs before Reedie became president: http://www.insidethegames.biz/olymp...ratory-facing-suspension-on-eve-of-sochi-2014
but now they don't have the powers? What the heck happend? Isn't it WADA who accredit WADA accredited labs anymore?

It would depend on the problem. If WADA had evidence where the lab was not processing per WADA standard, then they could de-certify the lab.

The head of the lab selling PED's and workers taking bribes or whatever else is not under their authority. No one has authority over the labs in this case.

It will be interesting if the scandal actually impacts the IAAF, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

True. Questions need to be asked about other nations.

No. Cleans. IOC sports are cleans because Nike and McDonald's say so.

Just ask Sepp Blatter at the next WADA meeting.

http://www.olympic.org/mr-joseph-s-blatter

member of the Foundation Board of the World Anti-Doping Agency (2007-)

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/who-we-are/governance/foundation-board

Russia has a direct role on WADA's board too.

 

[BradCantona]

On behalf of my fellow Britain's, I'd like to sincerely apologise for Russia's state sponsored doping program

 

[neineinei]

Nobody has authority over the sports federations. The guy accused of accepting bribes will quietly leave. The end. This is by design. This is why WADA is anti-doping theater. Technically, it's a great system. The politics makes it meaningless.



It would depend on the problem. If WADA had evidence where the lab was not processing per WADA standard, then they could de-certify the lab.

The head of the lab selling PED's and workers taking bribes or whatever else is not under their authority. No one has authority over the labs in this case.

It will be interesting if the scandal actually impacts the IAAF, but I seriously doubt it.

When the head of a WADA accredited lab is accused of making positives negative and vice versa it is WADA's problem. Let's face it, Reedie haven't even watched the program or read a proper translation, he's just talked to Bach and they've decided it should be swept undet the carpet. No investigation is needed, WADA dosen't need to do anything, cause IAAF has an ethics commision who doesn't handle doping cases.

If he'd actually watched the documentary he would have seen Pound and Howman saying stuff he wouldn't approve of.

Pound: "You've put together a comprehensive and very alarming case. Now that it's public, somebody has to come up with an answer. If things of this magnitude are organised in a country, it's a serious problem for the credibility of sports and of anti-doping efforts. It's pretty dreadful to see it goes all the way up to the IAAF, that's equally serious."

Howman: "The combination of it all is shocking. Details are disappointing. Combining everything and looking at the facts, it's certainly shocking. Now we have to approach this fearlessly, but also make sure to protect the people suffering from fear."

 

[The Hitch]

Love the way this thread is going, doping uncovered in Russia, lets blame the Brits

On behalf of my fellow Britain's, I'd like to sincerely apologise for Russia's state sponsored doping program

I'm sorry, perhaps one of you would show me the posts where people "blamed Britain", for Russia's doping?

 

[python]

neinei, if you watched the original documentary you will note that the head of their wada lab denied, flatly denied the accusations.

he denied it in a discernible english facing direct face-to-face questions from seppelt.

the fact that seppelt was given that opportunity (mind you, in moscow !!) ...to ask the accusatory questions, means to me that the direct evidence needed for wada to engage in the proceeding to withdraw the lab certification has long been, yes, g-o-n-e...gone are 'hot' aliquots poured down the sink, gone are the preliminary records, gone (read: neutralized) are the technicians and athletes able to confirm the story. recall, the whistle blowers stepanovs are, surprise-surprise, the refugees currently living in berlin, not moscow.

what i am saying, is that the matter seems long had been in the hands of lawyers who advised their bosses the day hajo requested a travel to moscow to interviewed them. plus, of course, the wada politicians who, if memory serves, had received a relatively generous contribution from moscow to the shrinking wada budget...

 

[DirtyWorks]

When the head of a WADA accredited lab is accused of making positives negative and vice versa it is WADA's problem.

Reedie will say no, they don't have the authority. The IOC and sports federations would never allow it. If WADA were granted the authority, suddenly every National doping program can be called out.

Let's face it, Reedie haven't even watched the program or read a proper translation, he's just talked to Bach and they've decided it should be swept undet the carpet. No investigation is needed, WADA dosen't need to do anything, cause IAAF has an ethics commision who doesn't handle doping cases.

Exactly. Not the least bit bothered. Pretty impressive, right? That tells me two things:
1. this is small time corruption relative to IOC.
2. Exactly how much the IOC cares about WADA actually containing doping. Which, is not at all.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

So from what I heard Savinova was caught on video admitting to doping?

 

[MrRoboto]

marit said she found it difficult to relate to the female discus thrower, who claimed on camera that 99% of russian elite dope (incidentally, she and marit have similar muscular builds )

That's not what she says in that article. The quote basically means that she finds it difficult to comment on something that a discus thrower *believes* to be true.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Russia got fewer golds than GB at the london olympics.

Someone should perhaps take a look into british sports.

I'm shocked that a member of this forum would think this

YAWNNNNNN

 

[sniper]

Russia got fewer golds than GB at the london olympics.

Someone should perhaps take a look into british sports.

At the end of that ARD program, Hajo Seppelt notes that he's received several emails from athletes from different countriesasking him to have a similarly thorough look at the (anti)doping systems in their respective countries. It's a pity he doesn't mention which countries (though understandable).
Anyway, looking at Britains rise in different sports, it really isn't far-fetched to assume that similar institutionalized doping is going on in Britain, though probably in slightly more advanced and less eye-catching ways than the Russians.

I've been listening to BBC 5 live quite a bit lately. There's almost continuous talk about how they can and should improve British performances in different sports on an international level. They seem extremely horny for international success, there's zero talk about doping, and there's lots of money being invested. Do the math.

 

[JimmyFingers]

and there we have it: a German documentary exposing mass Russian doping and yet again the clinic manages to make the discussion more about British doping.

Starting to look a little obsessive guys.

Actually scratch starting, it's been looking that way for a long time.

 

[the sceptic]

and there we have it: a German documentary exposing mass Russian doping and yet again the clinic manages to make the discussion more about British doping.

Starting to look a little obsessive guys.

Actually scratch starting, it's been looking that way for a long time.

Yeah, it is obviously a coincidence that 99% of your posts are related to brits.