Pros & Cons of a Vegan Diet for Weight Loss & Cycling Performance?

[Krebs cycle]

con:

turns you batsh!t insane and distorts your view of reality into something resembling a Hansel and Gretel fairytale

 

[hiero2]

First off - a little note - watch the tone of the "jokes", and keep the conversation civil.

But, I have a small thought to add about the thread:

Same old arguments for, and against. . . lol

What it all comes down to is one's belief system within themselves. "Evidence" to support one's perspective will ALWAYS present itself to confirm your own personal belief system. So in every sense of the word .... to "argue" for or against that which you most strongly believe in .... you are ultimately doing so with no one but yourself

just do what your heart tells you to do, you will be ok

Same arguments, for and against: yeah, pretty much. Except it isn't JUST belief systems - different diets do work better for different people. I've known people who honestly got more energy from removing meat from their diet, and people who got more energy from removing pretty much everything except meat. So one point is that you need to listen, not just to your heart, but your stomach and muscles.

Back to my first point. I first ran into vegetarianism in the early 60's - before the JFK assasination and the Beatle invasion. I was there to read Sanpaku - you are all sanpaku, and Diet for a Small Planet. Some of what they said made sense then, and still does today. And I gave it a shot. But it never works for me. Going to a vegetarian diet makes me sleepy. Way too much of the time. More recently, the paleo diet fad has gone along with a re-examination of the food conversation over the past 40 or so years.

I have tolerance for both ends of that spectrum of viewpoints on food consumption. And, in life, I've frequently noticed that some people like to proselytize their viewpoint. Atkins makes a ton of money proselytizing his viewpoint, as do other ppl. So long as nobody is taking their desire to convince you to join them into YOUR space, I have no problem with it. When they take it to your threads - it will be OT. But every once in a while, I listen in to the rant - and sometimes I learn something new.

 

[alitogata]

Your arguments are valid according to your own vegan diet. As far as I have read you live in Australia and you follow a vegan diet that is concistent mostly of bananas, durian and other locally grown fruits and vegetables.

I live in Athens Greece, where bananas are an expensive the kind of "4.000 miles" imported product, durians isn't known not even by their name, mango's are exactly like bananas etc etc for other fruits and vegetables that you can consume in your area.

So let's suppose that I follow a vegan diet like you suggest. I will have to adjust it to the local fruits and vegetables, which are totally different to their characteristics, substances and properties. This means that will not have the same effects that your, already tested, diet has. By changing the foods to those that are available locally then "your" vegan diet, will turn to be more like a "classic" vegetarian Mediterranean diet which I follow anyway.

That means that a lot of the benefits that the consumpsion of bananas has ( the example is indicative) can not be included to my "local" vegan diet, because bananas are not available, as fresh products, here ( as they are not available in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Germany and other European countries).

So there are and can't be no globally applied pros and cons that come from a vegan diet, because the pros and cons of a diet depent on what this diet is consistent of and of course, each vegan diet can be quite different from any other vegan diet.

On the other hand what works for you there as a 30+ male doesn't mean that is works for me here as a 40+ female. My body has different needs than yours, the climate conditions perhaps demand more calories per day, the cycling terrains more energy and so on.

What I want to say, is that you generalize judging by the success that a specific diet had for you, at your age, type of body and activities, in your area, kind of food, way that this food is available and you insist ( wrongly IMHO) that your diet can give the same benefits for every person, in every area all around the world.

Sorry but I don't agree with that.

 

[lostintime]

Same arguments, for and against: yeah, pretty much. Except it isn't JUST belief systems - different diets do work better for different people. I've known people who honestly got more energy from removing meat from their diet, and people who got more energy from removing pretty much everything except meat. So one point is that you need to listen, not just to your heart, but your stomach and muscles.

Actually it IS ....ALL about Beliefs. Imagination. It's not really what you eat at all.... it's what you imagine about yourself eating what you imagine you are eating. The "cause" is always and forerver .... I . What am I imagining about myself doing whatever I imagine I am doing. My "state of be-ing".

Yes, some will scoff, laugh, and deny 'till the cows come home (forever). They'll show their "proof" with papers and "my life experiences" and all of it. And it's alright, because they will be "right" from their given perspective.

Yes, some will even say "why can't I eat nothing, or paper, or steel, or something silly like that". Yes I ask .... why don't you ? Maybe because you imagine you can't ? Imagine it tastes rotten ? Doh !

Is this too far out to believe ? For those to whom imagine such, yes . For those to whom know it may be true .... it will spark the imagination to ask themselves about their own beliefs . And this is the point. No one needs to suffer , no matter what one chooses to eat or believe . What one eats is not the cause . Circumstances do not casue. Circumstances are the reflection of the contents of how I first imagine myself to be.

You are All the greatest be-ings ever Imagined. The very greatest. Nothing but the best is to come. Blessings to ALL.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...different diets do work better for different people. I've known people who honestly got more energy from removing meat from their diet, and people who got more energy from removing pretty much everything except meat. So one point is that you need to listen, not just to your heart, but your stomach and muscles.

If only the topic could end right there.

 

[durianrider]

Due to early onset osteoporosis caused by vitamin D and calcium deficiency.

I thought Vitamin D was from the sunshine?

Correct me if Im wrong has there EVER been a dietary related calcium deficiency EVER discovered in modern medical history?

I guess all these Australian drinking milk with vitamin D deficiency are vegans right? I was unaware 73% of Australia was vegan!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-11/three-quarters-of-all-australians-at-risk-of/4683750

 

[King Boonen]

I thought Vitamin D was from the sunshine?

Correct me if Im wrong has there EVER been a dietary related calcium deficiency EVER discovered in modern medical history?

I guess all these Australian drinking milk with vitamin D deficiency are vegans right? I was unaware 73% of Australia was vegan!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-11/three-quarters-of-all-australians-at-risk-of/4683750

From the most recent numbers a third of ANZAC people are vitamin D deficient, you'll notice the link you posted says "at risk", there is a difference.

Vitamin D is non-essential but it is unlikely you will get enough through exposure to sunlight, hence why most health bodies will have a recommended vitamin D dietary intake.

Hypocalcaemia has been linked to eating disorders and low dietary calcium intake so yes there has.

 

[durianrider]

Vitamin D is non-essential but it is unlikely you will get enough through exposure to sunlight, hence why most health bodies will have a recommended vitamin D dietary intake.

Vitamin D is non-essential eh? I thought you were saying just recently that a vegan would die in their sleep from Vit D deficiency caused from not drinking bovine milk (which ironically has Vit D added to it at time of processing typically).

Hypocalcaemia has been linked to eating disorders and low dietary calcium intake so yes there has.

Hmm..couldnt find anything about hypocalcemia being caused by not consuming enough mg of calcium per day..

Causes and risk factors of Hypocalcemia

Causes

Common causes:

Hypocalcemia with high PTH
Chronic kidney disease: increased serum phosphorus and reduced renal hydroxylation of 25-hydroxy-vitamin D to 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D
Vitamin D deficiency: decreased 25-hydroxylation in the liver, decreased 1-hydroxylation in the kidney, poor intake by mouth or malabsorption coupled with minimal exposure to ultraviolet light
Hypocalcemia with low PTH
Hypoparathyroidism after neck surgery; also may be autoimmune, genetic, infiltrative, post-radiation, or idiopathic
Deregulation of PTH: can occur due to mutations in the signal peptide sequence of preproPTH and mutations of the calcium sensing receptor (CaSR) on the parathyroid gland
Acute pancreatitis
Severe hypomagnesemia due to suppression of parathyroid hormone (PTH) release
Sepsis or severe illness: most likely a combination of reduced calcitriol production, impaired secretion of PTH, and end-organ PTH resistance
Rare causes:

Medications: anticonvulsants, antimicrobials (foscarnet, ketoconazole, pentamidine); agents used to treat hypercalcemia
Massive acute hyperphosphatemia (calcium chelation-tumor lysis, rhabdomyolysis)
Large-volume citrated blood transfusion (calcium chelation)
Osteoblastic malignancy
Pseudohypoparathyroidism
Risk factors

Hypoparathyroidism
Acute pancreatitis
Vitamin D deficiency
Chronic kidney disease


Could you please explain why Australia, US, England etc have such high dairy consumption yet such high osteoporosis rates?

Cheers mate.

 

[King Boonen]

Vitamin D is non-essential eh? I thought you were saying just recently that a vegan would die in their sleep from Vit D deficiency caused from not drinking bovine milk (which ironically has Vit D added to it at time of processing typically).

If you don't know the difference between essential and non-essential vitamins I suggest you look it up, it refers to whether they are a necessary part of your diet, not whether they are required.

Hmm..couldnt find anything about hypocalcemia being caused by not consuming enough mg of calcium per day..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23717521

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23520905

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21245882

Could you please explain why Australia, US, England etc have such high dairy consumption yet such high osteoporosis rates?

Cheers mate.

If I could I'd be a lot richer than I am now.

There you go flower.

 

[elapid]

I am not sure where this argument is going - osteoporosis in Western countries being associated with high calcium diets (no supportive evidence so far) or hypocalcemia and hypovitaminosis D being associated with a vegan diet?

Also not sure who is arguing vitamin D is an essential or non-essential vitamin in people, but vitamin D is an essential vitamin.

In regards to osteoporosis, you do realize that dietary calcium and vitamin D levels are just one of the potential causes amongst many? Other potential causes include low estrogen levels (common), lack of weight bearing activity, sedentary lifestyle, smoking, alcohol, hypothyroidism, hyperparathyroidism, and many common medications.

 

[King Boonen]

Also not sure who is arguing vitamin D is an essential or non-essential vitamin in people, but vitamin D is an essential vitamin.

Again, maybe you need to look up what an essential vitamin and a non-essential vitamin is. Vitamin D is non-essential, because it can be synthesised in the body. This does not mean it is not required.

 

[elapid]

Again, maybe you need to look up what an essential vitamin and a non-essential vitamin is. Vitamin D is non-essential, because it can be synthesised in the body. This does not mean it is not required.

I think you better do some research King Boonen - vitamin D IS an essential vitamin.

All my medical textbooks confirm this as does a quick internet search:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_nutrient
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002399.htm
http://dwp.bigplanet.com/tonyhere/13essentialvitamin/

 

[King Boonen]

Fair enough, we live and learn. Doesn't change the discussion though.

 

[elapid]

Fair enough, we live and learn. Doesn't change the discussion though.

This is where I am a little confused - what is the discussion? Osteoporosis, high calcium diets, Western diets, vegan diets?

 

[Ripper]

Again, maybe you need to look up what an essential vitamin and a non-essential vitamin is. Vitamin D is non-essential, because it can be synthesised in the body. This does not mean it is not required.

Vit D is essential, it's just it can be 'taken' through intake of food/vitamins, or it can be synthesized via exposure to the sun. The bodt does not create it without the right ingredients

I think you might be mixing up essential nutrients (like Vit D) and essential amino acids.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Got to say (as a vegetarian) since cutting out a lot of diary I'm pedalling longer, faster and stronger. The only real con of eating so strict is getting enough calories in, other than that a plant based diet works for me

 

[durianrider]

high carb low fat vegan diet works for everyone. Just like riding a nice bike. Can be a bit of a learning curve though. How to adjust the brakes? Fix a flat? Get flak from the rednecks at work for wearing lycra, find a good bike shop that can fit you up proper etc.

Cycling works
high carb low fat vegan works

Thing is society aint really set up for either so you if you want the results, you really gotta do your homework so its easy to succeed. You have to fight against the traffic of the status quo if you want to get healthy and naturally fit in this world. Over time though, its easy as clipping in and heading off. I can eat high carb low fat vegan anywhere on earth I travel too. Currently in China. Easy as.

Got to say (as a vegetarian) since cutting out a lot of diary I'm pedalling longer, faster and stronger. The only real con of eating so strict is getting enough calories in, other than that a plant based diet works for me

 

[elapid]

high carb low fat vegan diet works for everyone.

No, it doesn't. Full of your usual rubbish, DR. Fine for you, but not fine for everyone.

 

[Michele]

It's like saying that your training schedule fit everyones.

 

[bike_boy]

It's like saying that your training schedule fit everyones.

I have a horse that needs a super high protein diet, so he gets fed a lot of meat. My other horse does better on carbs, so he gets hay and chaff. I also have a goat, dog and a sheep and they switch depending on the diet fad of the day. All three are doing a water fast currently, last week was a soup diet, next week prolly paleo or atkins.

Sounds pretty insane doesn't it?

 

[42x16ss]

It's all about how awesome Harley is, I thought everyone knew that?

 

[42x16ss]

This is where I am a little confused - what is the discussion? Osteoporosis, high calcium diets, Western diets, vegan diets?

The discussion is about how awesome Harley is. Just look at any of his posts...

 

[42x16ss]

Got to say (as a vegetarian) since cutting out a lot of diary I'm pedalling longer, faster and stronger. The only real con of eating so strict is getting enough calories in, other than that a plant based diet works for me

Whole grain pasta works wonders. If you are wheat intolerant I recommend Spelt

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Spelt won't help though if you're trying to be gluten-free, as it's not. It's basically a type of wheat, both belong to the same genus Triticum. (Link here).

 

[42x16ss]

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I've been on a low FODMAPS diet for just over a year now which means no wheat but I don't have any problems with spelt in moderation. Buckwheat is also a decent option and is gluten free