Pros & Cons of a Vegan Diet for Weight Loss & Cycling Performance?

[Boeing]

It's like saying that your training schedule fit everyones.

my only criticism of Durainrider is this. love his passion but vegan or bacon would melt away given the hours in the saddle he puts in.

durain, fess up you put mad time in the saddle

 

[hiero2]

The discussion is about how awesome . . .is. Just look at any of his posts...

Careful - not supposed to use names.

my only criticism of Durainrider is this. love his passion but vegan or bacon would melt away given the hours in the saddle he puts in.

durain, fess up you put mad time in the saddle

Yeh, agree, DR does put in mad time, and I'm impressed. But I know if I tried to do that as a vegan - I'd bonk. I wish I were still putting in that kind of mileage. And maybe I'll manage to get back to it. I keep tryin'. . .

 

[elapid]

Careful - not supposed to use names.

While I agree in theory, nearly anyone who visits this thread knows who DR is and DR doesn't hide it either with his rather blatant self-promotion.

 

[Boeing]

Careful - not supposed to use names.



Yeh, agree, DR does put in mad time, and I'm impressed. But I know if I tried to do that as a vegan - I'd bonk. I wish I were still putting in that kind of mileage. And maybe I'll manage to get back to it. I keep tryin'. . .

Another fail on Durain's part is that he could do a better job of providing examples and evidence of Animal protein B-12 alternatives in a vegan word. The Rip Esselstyn who wrote the Engine 2 diet does a good job of this


Durain rider; have you read The Engine 3 Diet?

 

[oldcrank]

I'm not interested in joining the pro/con Vegan discussion
which is the subject of this thread, but there were a few
posts regarding Vit. D a few days ago and no mention was
made that any vegan/vegetarian/omnivore can meet the
RDA for vitamin D with the inclusion of "Vitamin D Mushrooms"
in ones diet, assuming of course there are no health, ethical or
religious reasons that would prevent one consuming foods
that have been subjected to "pulsed light."
http://www.vitamindmushrooms.com.au/mushrooms/

 

[oldcrank]

I'm not interested in joining the pro/con Vegan discussion
which is the subject of this thread, but there were a few
posts regarding Vit. D a few days ago and no mention was
made that any vegan/vegetarian/omnivore can meet the
RDA for vitamin D with the inclusion of "Vitamin D Mushrooms"
in ones diet, assuming of course there is no health, ethical or
religious reasons that would prevent one consuming foods
that have been subjected to "pulsed light."
http://www.vitamindmushrooms.com.au/mushrooms/

 

[kiwiandy71]

"Vegan" is derived from the ancient Latin word ""Veganus gaseous" which roughly translated to English means "the village idiot who can't hunt or fish"

 

[durianrider]

my only criticism of Durainrider is this. love his passion but vegan or bacon would melt away given the hours in the saddle he puts in.

durain, fess up you put mad time in the saddle

Thats a common theory but look at my strava data. I know riders who are fatter and heavier than me but put in as much time on the bike and do more intensity than me. Its about dietary choices vs training.

Ok, if you ride 1500km a week you will burn a lot of cals BUT who can do that year round for decades to stay light? NOBODY!

High carb vegan diet works wonders for me and my gf. It means we only have to train for fitness and not do junk miles for weight loss.

If you want to tell if Im fit, just look at my tan lines. I look the same year round body fat wise but when am fittest, Im tanned up. Look at all the doctors that promote this lifestyle. They have been doing it for decades and look like pro athletes at masters level but they aint very fit themselves.

 

[Captain Serious]

Finally! Some mainstream media coverage of the bullsh1t "cholesterol theory". I can't believe it! It was an Aus tv tonight. It's a 29 min video.
Probably the best thing about the video is that it discusses how it all started in the "old days".

Ancel Keys is a farkin piece of ***, who just promoted his crap in the '50s coz he wanted to make a name for himself. His "seminal" (pffft!) "research" omitted data from any country that didn't fit his predetermined outcome.

Anyway, it doesn't matter; it's too late, because cholesterol-lowering drugs are making such a disgusting amount of money that if things ever do change, it'll probably take another 50 years.

Perhaps more importantly, the host of this show is so farkin hot that my d1ck nearly exploded

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3876219.htm

 

[bike_boy]

So does that mean this vegan thing is a complete load of crap? Why is it that the people I know who eat mostly greasy food are all huge fat pigs?

 

[Polyarmour]

Finally! Some mainstream media coverage of the bullsh1t "cholesterol theory". I can't believe it! It was an Aus tv tonight. It's a 29 min video.
Probably the best thing about the video is that it discusses how it all started in the "old days".

Ancel Keys is a farkin piece of ***, who just promoted his crap in the '50s coz he wanted to make a name for himself. His "seminal" (pffft!) "research" omitted data from any country that didn't fit his predetermined outcome.

Anyway, it doesn't matter; it's too late, because cholesterol-lowering drugs are making such a disgusting amount of money that if things ever do change, it'll probably take another 50 years.

Perhaps more importantly, the host of this show is so farkin hot that my d1ck nearly exploded

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3876219.htm

Plenty of backlash from this program. The 2 or 3 doctors interviewed who believe cholesterol is not responsible for cardio vascular disease represent a minority viewpoint. Isn't this the case with diet, you can always find someone to say the opposite of what is taken as conventional wisdom? The host was criticized for not giving a balanced view. She presented something as fact when in reality it is the hypothesis of a few fringe dwelling doctors who haven't as yet been able to convince their peers.

She is hot though so I forgive her.

 

[Captain Serious]

Uggh! I haven't got the energy to do this anymore.
They're not 'just a few fringe doctors' with a minority "view".
Crikey. And they had the "contrary guy", but he had nothing, coz he knows there's nothing there.
Ancel Keys fudged the figures from day, and that's just the start of it; as soon as he got political pull, it was all over.
It's all in the show

Eh, whatever. Anyway, don't worry, coz, as I said, it'll never change coz there's too much money at stake with cholesterol-lowering drugs.

 

[Polyarmour]

Uggh! I haven't got the energy to do this anymore.
They're not 'just a few fringe doctors' with a minority "view".
Crikey. And they had the "contrary guy", but he had nothing, coz he knows there's nothing there.
Ancel Keys fudged the figures from day, and that's just the start of it; as soon as he got political pull, it was all over.
It's all in the show

Eh, whatever. Anyway, don't worry, coz, as I said, it'll never change coz there's too much money at stake with cholesterol-lowering drugs.

I don't think anyone was disputing the Ancel Keys bit.

The issue was that people watching the program might get the impression that having high cholesterol was perfectly fine, decide to ditch their medications.. and die.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-28/professor-says-abc-catalyst-episode-could-result-in-deaths/5050866

 

[Ferminal]

So the evidence* is unreasonable because the orthodox mainstream (who for very good reasons will fight it all the way) refuse to accept it? The funniest thing is that they are coming out with "it's imperative that you talk to your GP about it". You need to ensure you're not compromising your health, but how many doctors are going to deviate from the standard guidelines. Not their fault, just that they don't explore beyond the advice from medical associations etc.

*It all seems pretty conflicting to me and far from certain, one way or the other. This is convincing though there are plenty of counterpoints in the comments.

I look forward to the episode on the drugs. I know that if I had a problem I'd be looking at my diet before swallowing pills, and cut out all the refined carbs/sugars before the oils/fats.

 

[elapid]

So the evidence* is unreasonable because the orthodox mainstream (who for very good reasons will fight it all the way) refuse to accept it? The funniest thing is that they are coming out with "it's imperative that you talk to your GP about it". You need to ensure you're not compromising your health, but how many doctors are going to deviate from the standard guidelines. Not their fault, just that they don't explore beyond the advice from medical associations etc.

*It all seems pretty conflicting to me and far from certain, one way or the other. This is convincing though there are plenty of counterpoints in the comments.

I look forward to the episode on the drugs. I know that if I had a problem I'd be looking at my diet before swallowing pills, and cut out all the refined carbs/sugars before the oils/fats.

There are many interesting and thought-provoking books on the evolution of our current dietary recommendations and how flawed studies and politically motivated researchers resulted in these recommendations. So, yes, doctors will not be inclined to offer you an opinion that does not conform to the FDA's dietary pyramid and recommendations.

A similar situation exists for recommendations for pregnant women. Numerous studies show that alcohol and certain foods are safe in pregnant women, but only when drunk and eaten in moderation. However, doctors are loathe to communicate this to pregnant women because of the fear that advising women that doing this in moderation will be seen as a green light to drink alcohol and eat cheese and sushi without restriction.

 

[42x16ss]

So does that mean this vegan thing is a complete load of crap? Why is it that the people I know who eat mostly greasy food are all huge fat pigs?

Probably because eating mostly greasy food makes you a fat pig

Eat everything in moderation except for fruit, veg and COMPLEX carbs and there's nothing to worry about. The problem is that more and more people have no idea of what the word moderation means.

 

[bike_boy]

Probably because eating mostly greasy food makes you a fat pig

Eat everything in moderation except for fruit, veg and COMPLEX carbs and there's nothing to worry about. The problem is that more and more people have no idea of what the word moderation means.

Agree, I've never met anyone who got fat on carbs from fruit and veg or carbs from rice or pasta even. You have to try really really hard to eat too many calories when you're eating real food. Most fatties who are still alive today would struggle to eat 3,000 calories worth of rolled oats in a day. But give them some fried chicken wings and it'll be down the hatch before you can say lunch time.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Until quite recently, the bulk of professional cyclists spent tens of thousands of Euros each year on illegal performance enhancing drugs to gain an advantage over the competition. If there were ANY performance advantage to this vegetarian/veganism thing, wouldn't you expect pro cyclists all would be flocking to it, especially since it's legal?

Once vegans begin dominating the grand tours, I will believe. Not until.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

When people survived by the sweat of their brow, they thrived on greasy food without being transformed into obese pigs.

We are genetically predisposed to crave the taste and mouth feel of fat. There are nine calories in one gram of fat but only four in a gram of carbohydrate, regardless whether you're talking brown rice or sugar. You only need half as much fatty foods (by weight) as carbo-rich foods to survive. Being predisposed to favour fats over carbohydrates left us better prepared to survive the lean times.

Before the advent of conveniences like the refrigerator and the supermarché, especially among people who did hard manual labour for a living, the fatty diet was essential to receiving enough nourishment to support their energy expenditures.

Which creature is the leaner, the carnivorous cheetah, or the grain-fed hog? Do you think the cheetah could manage to sprint to 110 kph if it were fueled only on parsnips and acorns? The physical configuration of any animal has far more to do with its lifestyle than with what it eats (although how it lives also necessarily has to be supported by whatever it fuels on).

What turns people into blimps is not the fatty diet, it's the sedentary lifestyle. That and the fact that meat actually has something plants in general lack: flavour. We will tend to overindulge on meat because we actually enjoy the eating experience and don't have to force down bushels of it.


Before you buy into this plant worshiping, and especially if you believe the vegetarian/vegan thing is kinder to the planet, or is the path to "social justice," you should read this:

An excerpt:
"Carnivores cannot survive on cellulose. They may on occasion eat grass, but they use it medicinally, usually as a purgative to clear their digestive tracts of parasites. Ruminants, on the other hand, have evolved to eat grass. They have a rumen (hence, ruminant), the first in a series of multiple stomachs that acts as a fermentative vat. What’s actually happening inside a cow or a wildebeest is that bacteria eat the grass, and the animals eat the bacteria.

"Lions and hyenas and humans don’t have a ruminant’s digestive system. Literally from our teeth to our rectums we are designed for meat. We have no mechanism to digest cellulose..."


We omnivorous humans have the largest brains and the smallest digestive tracts of all primates, relative to body size. Vegetarian gorillas have the smallest brains and the largest digestive tracts. The adoption of carnivorism was the single greatest adaptation allowing early Hominini to evolve discretely from the rest of the Hominidae, an event known to date back at least to Australopithecus, four million years ago. We never could have evolved to bipedalism with a belly the size of a gorilla's. Or developed a human-sized brain while maintaining the power of the gorilla's nut and grain-crushing jaws. It also was a crucial step toward H0mo Habilis, the tool maker, and the genesis of man's attempts to rule over his environment.


Our ancestors did not spend 4,000,000 years endeavouring to place their offspring at the apex of the food chain so that we could feast on tofu and watercress. And I will not dishonour their memory by fating my descendants to a return to the trees by teaching them that the buffaloes and the antelope have a better idea.

VIVA LA STEAK!!!

 

[42x16ss]

When people survived by the sweat of their brow, they thrived on greasy food without being transformed into obese pigs.

We are genetically predisposed to crave the taste and mouth feel of fat. There are nine calories in one gram of fat but only four in a gram of carbohydrate, regardless whether you're talking brown rice or sugar. You only need half as much fatty foods (by weight) as carbo-rich foods to survive. Being predisposed to favour fats over carbohydrates left us better prepared to survive the lean times.

Before the advent of conveniences like the refrigerator and the supermarché, especially among people who did hard manual labour for a living, the fatty diet was essential to receiving enough nourishment to support their energy expenditures.

Which creature is the leaner, the carnivorous cheetah, or the grain-fed hog? Do you think the cheetah could manage to sprint to 110 kph if it were fueled only on parsnips and acorns? The physical configuration of any animal has far more to do with its lifestyle than with what it eats (although how it lives also necessarily has to be supported by whatever it fuels on).

What turns people into blimps is not the fatty diet, it's the sedentary lifestyle. That and the fact that meat actually has something plants in general lack: flavour. We will tend to overindulge on meat because we actually enjoy the eating experience and don't have to force down bushels of it.


Before you buy into this plant worshiping, and especially if you believe the vegetarian/vegan thing is kinder to the planet, or is the path to "social justice," you should read this:

An excerpt:
"Carnivores cannot survive on cellulose. They may on occasion eat grass, but they use it medicinally, usually as a purgative to clear their digestive tracts of parasites. Ruminants, on the other hand, have evolved to eat grass. They have a rumen (hence, ruminant), the first in a series of multiple stomachs that acts as a fermentative vat. What’s actually happening inside a cow or a wildebeest is that bacteria eat the grass, and the animals eat the bacteria.

"Lions and hyenas and humans don’t have a ruminant’s digestive system. Literally from our teeth to our rectums we are designed for meat. We have no mechanism to digest cellulose..."


We omnivorous humans have the largest brains and the smallest digestive tracts of all primates, relative to body size. Vegetarian gorillas have the smallest brains and the largest digestive tracts. The adoption of carnivorism was the single greatest adaptation allowing early Hominini to evolve discretely from the rest of the Hominidae, an event known to date back at least to Australopithecus, four million years ago. We never could have evolved to bipedalism with a belly the size of a gorilla's. Or developed a human-sized brain while maintaining the power of the gorilla's nut and grain-crushing jaws. It also was a crucial step toward H0mo Habilis, the tool maker, and the genesis of man's attempts to rule over his environment.


Our ancestors did not spend 4,000,000 years endeavouring to place their offspring at the apex of the food chain so that we could feast on tofu and watercress. And I will not dishonour their memory by fating my descendants to a return to the trees by teaching them that the buffaloes and the antelope have a better idea.

VIVA LA STEAK!!!

I've never been one to carry on with the vegetable worship, don't mistake me for Durianrider . Red and white meats, fish and dairy are needed in most people's diets. A lot of folks can't sustain a vegan diet without some form of supplementation for prolonged lengths of time, for the reasons you pointed out.

One big health issue in modern society is that meat products are now not only abundant, but are readily available in processed, overly fatty forms, courtesy of McDonald's, KFC, Burger King etc etc. Couple this with increasingly sedentary lifestyles (because we no longer have to race around herding/hunting for ourselves) and it's no wonder that society is having obesity issues. Eat too much of such energy dense foods without doing enough to process it and you'll blow up like a balloon, fast.

 

[Ferminal]

I've never been one to carry on with the vegetable worship, don't mistake me for Durianrider . Red and white meats, fish and dairy are needed in most people's diets. A lot of folks can't sustain a vegan diet without some form of supplementation for prolonged lengths of time, for the reasons you pointed out.

One big health issue in modern society is that meat products are now not only abundant, but are readily available in processed, overly fatty forms, courtesy of McDonald's, KFC, Burger King etc etc. Couple this with increasingly sedentary lifestyles (because we no longer have to race around herding/hunting for ourselves) and it's no wonder that society is having obesity issues. Eat too much of such energy dense foods without doing enough to process it and you'll blow up like a balloon, fast.

They deal as much in sugar as they do fat.

 

[elapid]

They deal as much in sugar as they do fat.

Agree. Fat is not the culprit. Despite nearly everything being low fat in Western society, obesity levels continue to climb because of the over-consumption of highly refined carbohydrates and simple sugars.

 

[Captain Serious]

Yep, but possibly more to the point, there are just too many junk food choices/temptations available.

 

[42x16ss]

That's it, so much food is too energy dense because of overprocessed, fatty meats and/or overprocessed, simple sugars.

It's one thing to say that a steak has the same amount of fat as a burger patty, or an orange has the same amount of sugar as a small chocolate bar but the body has to work to extract and break down the steak and the orange. With the burger and the chocolate, it's not necessary and therefore more is absorbed faster.

 

[Ferminal]

...and you miss out on all the good stuff in the unrefined foods.