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Puerto bags to be handed over

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Mar 4, 2010
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King Boonen said:
One thing that's not been mentioned. How exactly did they get the supposed athletes DNA?
They'd already have blood samples from anti doping tests performed on said athletes with which to compare
 
Re: Re:

Kender said:
King Boonen said:
One thing that's not been mentioned. How exactly did they get the supposed athletes DNA?
They'd already have blood samples from anti doping tests performed on said athletes with which to compare
Not true, for Ullrich they raided his house and recovered DNA via a warrant.

Blood stored in WADA labs cannot be used for such an exercise, it is marked by code only and once tested cannot be tested again (I'm willing to be corrected on this point, as my understanding once blood is tested it is contaminated).

BERLIN (AP) - German authorities secured DNA samples from former Tour de France winner Jan Ullrich in a raid earlier this week on his Swiss residence, according to a report released on Thursday. Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung said in an advance release of its Friday edition that authorities had secured samples of the German rider's DNA that were to be compared with frozen blood seized at a Madrid clinic as part of a doping investigation that saw Ullrich and eight other riders forced to withdraw from this year's Tour. Authorities could not immediately be reached to comment on the report. On Thursday, Germany's Federal Crime Office said Ullrich's main residence in Switzerland and nine other homes and offices were searched as part of a fraud investigation by Bonn prosecutors in connection with a Spanish doping probe linked to doctor Eufemiano Fuentes. Ullrich was not at home during the raid.
Yes, blood tests for passport or otherwise are filled with a solution, that would break the chain of custody;

Several methods exist for measuring hemoglobin, most of which are done currently by automated machines designed to perform different tests on blood. Within the machine, the red blood cells are broken down to get the hemoglobin into a solution. The free hemoglobin is exposed to a chemical containing cyanide that binds tightly with the hemoglobin molecule to form cyanomethemoglobin. By shining a light through the solution and measuring how much light is absorbed (specifically at a wavelength of 540 nanometers), the amount of hemoglobin can be determined.
Valverde was taken down by a blood test in Italy when a stage of the Tour went through. It was a CONI test and not a UCI or AFLD blood test.

The summons relates to a blood-urine sample given by Valverde on July 21, during the 2008 Tour de France after a stage in Italy.

Italian news agency Ansa reported that DNA tests on this sample matched those of blood samples seized from the laboratory of tainted doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, the central figure in the Puerto scandal.

Although the sample Valverde gave during the Tour did not fail any dope tests, follow-up DNA tests matched the sample to others seized during the Puerto investigation.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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thehog said:
Blood stored in WADA labs cannot be used for such an exercise, it is marked by code only and once tested cannot be tested again (I'm willing to be corrected on this point, as my understanding once blood is tested it is contaminated).
one assumes they could separate the sample for multiple tests tho.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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ClassicomanoLuigi said:
If the definitive proof comes out, Cancellara is either disgraced or exonerated. I lean towards the latter possibility, with the expectation that neither 'clasicomano' or 'clasicomano Luigi' are Cancellara's blood. But who knows...

how so? how do we make this case?

if we can chiefly reconcile Spartacus as either disgraced or exonerated on this one turn of the hat, that rabbit hole we went down, just got a whole lot deeper. If in my reckoning, the front half of the peloton, tous dope, tout dope, then Spartacus cannot be innocent with his imperious palmares. I also dont think you make the professional peloton if you do not take the dip, but I think some professionals can resign themselves to a career as a domestique and not a winner, and then proceed not taking any pharmacy enhancement, or pharmaceutical enhancement.

I do not care that we cannot prove if any rider, say Froome or Spartacus or Roglic have used a motor, because the story is just so titillating. its better than Yellow Rose. But if Spartacus can just absolve his entire career never having taken a plunge of the hypodermic, "I'll go he"

#falsedichotomy is false... thats not a double negative, its a tautological pleonasm[sic] for rhetorical flourish and purpose
 
May 13, 2011
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Who from Puerto days is scheduled for the Olympics? The retroactive testing narrative seems to be in vogue and there is a big opportunity to make a sacrificial offering to the sports Gods. The blood dripping down would satisfy the last of the fans, and could then be re injected into the Anglo heroes in a patriotic frenzy.
 
Jan 20, 2010
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CheckMyPecs said:
Statute of limitations makes sense.
Yes, and no. You only have to provide a conspiracy to remove that obstacle.

A conspiracy, or conspiring could be as simple as signing a declaration in 2007 that you were no part of Puerto. But now being found out to be part of it.

Vinokourov appealed and won at CAS where he would have had to repay money because of that declaration. It doesn't necessarily follow that the signed declaration you didn't dope re Puerto would be treated the same.
 
Re: Re:

Night Rider said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Statute of limitations makes sense.
Yes, and no. You only have to provide a conspiracy to remove that obstacle.

A conspiracy, or conspiring could be as simple as signing a declaration in 2007 that you were no part of Puerto. But now being found out to be part of it.

Vinokourov appealed and won at CAS where he would have had to repay money because of that declaration. It doesn't necessarily follow that the signed declaration you didn't dope re Puerto would be treated the same.
I don't think it really matters. If the UCI or WADA announce they are opening an investigation into rider x then they are as good as gone by reputation alone.

In saying that, the UCI and WADA don't say much these days or release when they have a AAF so we may never know and it all gets dealt with 'Menchov' style
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Gung Ho Gun said:
Pantani Attacks said:
So first "his mother tongue is german", now he grew up speaking it? Which one is it, because they're not the same. And the latter makes your argument redundant.
According to the Trek Segafredo blog and an interview with the president of his Flemish fan club, his mother is German-speaking Swiss. So German is quite literally his mother tongue. And he grew up speaking it.
Cancellara was raised bilingual, his Italian is flawless. He once said that by growing older he feels less and less Italian (what he actually meant was that he became calmer as he settled with his family/ Italian males have the reputation of being flamboyant after all). Doesn't change the fact that he grew up as an Italian Swiss.
 
Feb 10, 2010
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thehog said:
I don't think it really matters. If the UCI or WADA announce they are opening an investigation into rider x then they are as good as gone by reputation alone.

In saying that, the UCI and WADA don't say much these days or release when they have a AAF so we may never know and it all gets dealt with 'Menchov' style
My prediction as well. The public response will be unsatisfactory.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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So ten years after the fact we find out who didn't stop doping in 2006....

I wouldn't be surprise to see Cancellara get outed by this, not sure what it really changes....does the reputation really get tarnished, he can use the line that everyone else has I stopped it in 2006 only did it once, blah blah blah blah....
 
Interview with Blanco published just now, about the Puerto blood bags. They imply that the timing of the Puerto case is to clean up "the image of Spanish sport" in advance of the Olympics :


"La imagen de España en el mundo, en cuestiones de dopaje, fue muy mala durante muchos años, deportistas probadamente tramposos, como Lance Armstrong, tenían aquí su centro de operaciones, algo que tuvo peso en las candidaturas de Madrid a los Juegos. ¿Se ha conseguido desterrar esa idea de España como paraíso de tramposos?"


"The image of Spain, in the eyes of the world, regarding the questions of doping, has been very bad for many years. Proven cheaters such as Lance Armstrong had his base of operations here. A fact which weighed upon the candidacy of Madrid for the Olympic Games. Do you think you have now managed to dispel the idea that Spain is a paradise for dopers?"
 
Good news! :lol:


Frank Schleck will get €2 million in damages from Leopard AG after the team fired him in 2013, according to the Swiss website NZZ.ch. The payment will go to Schleck and his company Winfrank GmBH after the Swiss Federal court held up a previous decision from CAS.

The issue stems from the 2013 season when Schleck was sacked by the RadioShack-Leopard team after a doping suspension following a positive test for the diuretic Xipamide. Schleck produced the for the banned substance at the 2012 Tour de France and was handed down a retrospective 12-month ban in January the next year.

Despite his suspension, Schleck had continued to train with the squad and he had been due to return to racing just days after the team announced his sacking. Schleck was in the middle of a four-year contract with the RadioShack-Leopard team that was set to run from 2011 to 2014. Part of Schleck’s contract with the squad was an agreement that they would market his image rights. The court ruled that as the team had waited until June 2013 to fire Schleck they owed him and his company the two million
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/frank-schleck-to-get-two-million-in-damages-from-leopard-ag-news-shorts/
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Indeed.
Frank can now retire and teach school children that doping really isn't worth the risk.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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leopard. shoulda called the team inverted cheetah. then they woulda kicked some peloton @r$e as everyone knows the words jv enunciated ring true... the cool guys dont dope anymore. and no one is cooler than froome dawg
 
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sniper said:
GJB123 said:
In his column in a Dutch newspaper Thijs Zonneveld seems pretty certain that Classicomano Luigi refers to Thomas Dekker (with Luigi being a reference to Dekker's trainer Luigi Cecchini)
Cecchini was also Fabian's trainer, at least in 2006.

If Thijs has this info first hand from Thomas, I'm convinced of course.
As it now appears, Thijs did have this info first hand from Thomas Dekker.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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GJB123 said:
sniper said:
GJB123 said:
In his column in a Dutch newspaper Thijs Zonneveld seems pretty certain that Classicomano Luigi refers to Thomas Dekker (with Luigi being a reference to Dekker's trainer Luigi Cecchini)
Cecchini was also Fabian's trainer, at least in 2006.

If Thijs has this info first hand from Thomas, I'm convinced of course.
As it now appears, Thijs did have this info first hand from Thomas Dekker.
Indeed.

Some less likely conspiracies aside (e.g. Cance paying Dekker to say this), it seems the Hamilton anecdote about Luigi put us (or at least me and some others) on the wrong foot.

Would be good to hear from Hamilton whom he was referring to.
Is he on twitter?
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
GJB123 said:
sniper said:
GJB123 said:
In his column in a Dutch newspaper Thijs Zonneveld seems pretty certain that Classicomano Luigi refers to Thomas Dekker (with Luigi being a reference to Dekker's trainer Luigi Cecchini)
Cecchini was also Fabian's trainer, at least in 2006.

If Thijs has this info first hand from Thomas, I'm convinced of course.
As it now appears, Thijs did have this info first hand from Thomas Dekker.
Indeed.

Some less likely conspiracies aside (e.g. Cance paying Dekker to say this), it seems the Hamilton anecdote about Luigi put us (or at least me and some others) on the wrong foot.

Would be good to hear from Hamilton whom he was referring to.
Is he on twitter?
https://twitter.com/Ty_Hamilton
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Cheers!
Seems he's not very active, although he did tweet something a few hours ago.
I'll put the question to him.
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
GJB123 said:
sniper said:
GJB123 said:
In his column in a Dutch newspaper Thijs Zonneveld seems pretty certain that Classicomano Luigi refers to Thomas Dekker (with Luigi being a reference to Dekker's trainer Luigi Cecchini)
Cecchini was also Fabian's trainer, at least in 2006.

If Thijs has this info first hand from Thomas, I'm convinced of course.
As it now appears, Thijs did have this info first hand from Thomas Dekker.
Indeed.

Some less likely conspiracies aside (e.g. Cance paying Dekker to say this), it seems the Hamilton anecdote about Luigi put us (or at least me and some others) on the wrong foot.

Would be good to hear from Hamilton whom he was referring to.
Is he on twitter?
It also confused me, rest assured. Until Thijs Zonneveld made his statement (apparently form the horse's mouth), I like you assumed it had to be Cancellara (also stemming from Hamilton's story).
 
Hamilton was undoubtedly referring to Cancellara, who apparently was believed to be "Clasicómano Luigi" in certain circles. It is still an absurd nickname for Dekker (very much not a classics rider), and I always assumed it had been misreported or that there was some confusion down the line that would explain everything. IIRC there was also some confusion about whether or not "Clasicómano" and "Clasicómano Luigi" were separate codenames. Honestly, it's a mess. Since it comes from Dekker himself, it has to be considered credible, but it's still weird.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Thijs Zonneveld on twitter is breaking that 35 Puerto bags have been identified by the Lausanne lab.
It allegedly concerns 23 cyclists and 12 t&f athletes.
So again no soccer or tennis players.

Names to be made public soon. But I'm not sure if it concerns 'new' names.

edit: Thijs expects only a handful of new names.
 

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