Puerto bags to be handed over

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/Noaldopaje/status/742691004357181440

You gotta admit Fuentes was a real moron when choosing nicknames sometimes.

What a surprise it was to find out "Sevillano" was Óscar Sevilla.

Doping was and still is part of the culture of sport. Fuentes obviously felt comfortable he was protected and if not at least ignored as a necessary part of Spanish sport. It did not matter the names, as DNA would find out whose blood it is when he got caught. I dont think Fuentes suffered too much. Some of the athletes have, Ullrich massively.

Interested in your comment about Ullrich there Benotti. Why would you say he has suffered massively? He was as guilty as hell and deserved what he got.

Suffered financially, gone from the sport.........He was guilty. I dont deny that. But compared to the Garmin crew and others he got done big time.

Piti still rode, Basso, Scarponi, Schlecks, Canc, Contador etc.........sadly anti doping and its punishments are about on a par with levels of doping!

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/Noaldopaje/status/742691004357181440

You gotta admit Fuentes was a real moron when choosing nicknames sometimes.

What a surprise it was to find out "Sevillano" was Óscar Sevilla.

Many of them are obvious only after the fact. "Sevillano" could be literally anyone, if we didn't already know Sevilla was a client. It could be someone from Seville (hint: Óscar Sevilla is from Ossa de Montiel, Albacete, aka Not Seville, Not Even Andalusia). It could be someone who enjoys sevillanas or the Feria de abril.

 

[mjreck]

http://www.uefa.org/protecting-the-game/anti-doping/news/newsid=1968443.html

So even if any bags remain belonging to any footballers, there's nothing to compare them to.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/Noaldopaje/status/742691004357181440

You gotta admit Fuentes was a real moron when choosing nicknames sometimes.

What a surprise it was to find out "Sevillano" was Óscar Sevilla.

Doping was and still is part of the culture of sport. Fuentes obviously felt comfortable he was protected and if not at least ignored as a necessary part of Spanish sport. It did not matter the names, as DNA would find out whose blood it is when he got caught. I dont think Fuentes suffered too much. Some of the athletes have, Ullrich massively.

Interested in your comment about Ullrich there Benotti. Why would you say he has suffered massively? He was as guilty as hell and deserved what he got.

Are we not beyond this? In a time where 90%+ of the peloton was doping under the full acceptance of the governing body, the teams and national federations.

Ullrich is also a special case. He grew up in a broken home, his father beat his mother and was an alcoholic. He was taken in by a sports school who doped him from a junior. The fact that he doing as well as he is is a modern marvel. Especially when his compatriots like Voigt pretend they didn't and Ullrich knows they did and hasn't scapegoated them in.

I'm glad Rapha employed himas an ambassador. He deserves every accolade he gets.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/Noaldopaje/status/742691004357181440

You gotta admit Fuentes was a real moron when choosing nicknames sometimes.

What a surprise it was to find out "Sevillano" was Óscar Sevilla.

Doping was and still is part of the culture of sport. Fuentes obviously felt comfortable he was protected and if not at least ignored as a necessary part of Spanish sport. It did not matter the names, as DNA would find out whose blood it is when he got caught. I dont think Fuentes suffered too much. Some of the athletes have, Ullrich massively.

Interested in your comment about Ullrich there Benotti. Why would you say he has suffered massively? He was as guilty as hell and deserved what he got.

Are we not beyond this? In a time where 90%+ of the peloton was doping under the full acceptance of the governing body, the teams and national federations.

Ullrich is also a special case. He grew up in a broken home, his father beat his mother and was an alcoholic. He was taken in by a sports school who doped him from a junior. The fact that he doing as well as he is is a modern marvel. Especially when his compatriots like Voigt pretend they didn't and Ullrich knows they did and hasn't scapegoated them in.

I'm glad Rapha employed himas an ambassador. He deserves every accolade he gets.

Very well said!!!
When you look at it that way it is a surprise that Ullrich has managed to hold himself together at all, seeing riders like Voigt celebrated would be a better pill to swallow

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

Like Luigi, Cancellara is of Italian descent.

(Tenuous Puerto naming links! It's like 2006 never ended.)

cancellara is a german schweizer.

Fabian Cancellara was born on 18 March 1981, in Wohlen bei Bern, Switzerland, to Italian parents

he has a german name, his mother tongue is german and he was born in german schweiz. what more do you want?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

what about wegelius and cioni, both at liquigas at the time.

of course they are not in the puerto bags. they had nothing to do with puerto case. nor did liquigas had anything to do with that

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/Noaldopaje/status/742691004357181440

You gotta admit Fuentes was a real moron when choosing nicknames sometimes.

What a surprise it was to find out "Sevillano" was Óscar Sevilla.

Doping was and still is part of the culture of sport. Fuentes obviously felt comfortable he was protected and if not at least ignored as a necessary part of Spanish sport. It did not matter the names, as DNA would find out whose blood it is when he got caught. I dont think Fuentes suffered too much. Some of the athletes have, Ullrich massively.

Interested in your comment about Ullrich there Benotti. Why would you say he has suffered massively? He was as guilty as hell and deserved what he got.

Suffered financially, gone from the sport.........He was guilty. I dont deny that. But compared to the Garmin crew and others he got done big time.

Piti still rode, Basso, Scarponi, Schlecks, Canc, Contador etc.........sadly anti doping and its punishments are about on a par with levels of doping!

ullrich is one of the wealthiest persons ever to come out of cycling never having a day to work for the rest of his life as a multi-multi millionaire

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Like Luigi, Cancellara is of Italian descent.

(Tenuous Puerto naming links! It's like 2006 never ended.)

cancellara is a german schweizer.

Fabian Cancellara was born on 18 March 1981, in Wohlen bei Bern, Switzerland, to Italian parents

he has a german name, his mother tongue is german and he was born in german schweiz. what more do you want?

nobody wants anything.
the question is could he be luigi.
yes he could.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

what about wegelius and cioni, both at liquigas at the time.

of course they are not in the puerto bags. they had nothing to do with puerto case. nor did liquigas had anything to do with that

so you know who was and wasnt involved in puerto.
and only now you tell us?

more to the point, there might be a reason why liquigas took on basso postsuspension.

that said, if you have better ideas about the guys referred to by jaksche, i,m all ear.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

what about wegelius and cioni, both at liquigas at the time.

of course they are not in the puerto bags. they had nothing to do with puerto case. nor did liquigas had anything to do with that

so you know who was and wasnt involved in puerto.
and only now you tell us?

more to the point, there might be a reason why liquigas took on basso postsuspension.

that said, if you have better ideas about the guys referred to by jaksche, i,m all ear.

they are all spanish guys, or riders who rode for spanish teams or with serious connections to them. liquigas and the riders you mentioned had absolutely none. not to mention the few foreigners were all big names with big results with fuentes, like ullrich(although he just started) and basso. almost all of those cyclists have been named before. what few cyclists are left not yet named? they were no doubt somewhat smaller names from the spanish scene, for instance fill in nearly everyone from kelme around that time not yet mentioned, someone like bonilla, who had a terrible reputation, david blanco, david bernabeu, eladio jimenez, pecharroman

 

[sniper]

which of those you mention are currently DS or TV commentator?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

which of those you mention are currently DS or TV commentator?

none, as far as I know, except bonilla in costa rica

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

which of those you mention are currently DS or TV commentator?

none, as far as I know, except bonilla in costa rica

so, back to Jorg's tweet.
5 DSs.
2 TV commentators.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Like Luigi, Cancellara is of Italian descent.

(Tenuous Puerto naming links! It's like 2006 never ended.)

cancellara is a german schweizer.

Fabian Cancellara was born on 18 March 1981, in Wohlen bei Bern, Switzerland, to Italian parents

he has a german name, his mother tongue is german and he was born in german schweiz. what more do you want?

Wow, you've made three statements and are objectively wrong on 2 of them. That's an impressive miss rate.

1) Cancellara is an Italian name from Italy, which is why it's a place name in Italy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellara

2) Cancellara's first language is Italian. It's what he grew up speaking. It's his mother tongue.

What more do I want? Well, you not to talk nonsense would be a start...

 

[Gregga]

Re: Re:

so, back to Jorg's tweet.
5 DSs.
2 TV commentators.

Present or future DS ? If future, Fabian and Fränk are good candidates, plus maybe Cioni, Bettini if JJ considers him as a DS. 2 TV Commentators ? My guess is Flecha for sure, who else ? Jalabert ?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

Like Luigi, Cancellara is of Italian descent.

(Tenuous Puerto naming links! It's like 2006 never ended.)

cancellara is a german schweizer.

Fabian Cancellara was born on 18 March 1981, in Wohlen bei Bern, Switzerland, to Italian parents

he has a german name, his mother tongue is german and he was born in german schweiz. what more do you want?

Wow, you've made three statements and are objectively wrong on 2 of them. That's an impressive miss rate.

1) Cancellara is an Italian name from Italy, which is why it's a place name in Italy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellara

2) Cancellara's first language is Italian. It's what he grew up speaking. It's his mother tongue.

What more do I want? Well, you not to talk nonsense would be a start...

he grew up speaking german, in german switzerland and his ancestry name is meaningless. I have a last name suggesting I might be german, the first name says a lot more, which is also german in cancellara's case, he also speaks german at home all the time, according to the trek segafredo docu

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

which of those you mention are currently DS or TV commentator?

none, as far as I know, except bonilla in costa rica

so, back to Jorg's tweet.
5 DSs.
2 TV commentators.

I wouldn't believe jorg jaksche if he was breathing

I'd take much more trust in manzano, who said what he had to say and isn't bitter or attention whore and knew the spanish fuentes scene much better

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

so, back to Jorg's tweet.
5 DSs.
2 TV commentators.

Present or future DS ? If future, Fabian and Fränk are good candidates, plus maybe Cioni, Bettini if JJ considers him as a DS. 2 TV Commentators ? My guess is Flecha for sure, who else ? Jalabert ?

How would Jorg know who's gonna be future DS? I assume he's talking about current DSs.
Which brings me to Cioni and Wegelius.
Perhaps there was a Fuentes-Liquigas link?
Liquigas certainly had no qualms hiring Basso post-suspension.
Sure, I'm clutching at straws. But just trying to make sense of Jorg's "5 DSs".

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

he might as well be meaning ds from very small time and only on hearsay. and when did he say that exactly? this year?

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Luke Roberts, Patxi Vila, Florencio, Yakovlev, ... there seem to be quite a lot of options, no?

 

[sniper]

yes, plenty of other options.

but again, it's the liquigas-basso-fuentes-sassi link that made me consider wegelius and cioni.

Ivan Basso is back; but who’s the man getting him into shape to prevent Astana taking the first five places on GC? Aldo Sassi. He also trains Cadel Evans, Charly Wegelius and PEZ’s man in the Italian gruppo, Dario Cioni; sound interesting?
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/interviews/a-snapshot-in-time-an-interview-with-aldo-sassi/#.V2EicDUjWM8

admittedly that could be a red herring and may have nothing to do with fuentes.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

when basso returned he was definitely clean(er) at liquigas. I doubt sassi had anything bad to do with it.

basso was not a shell of his former self 2004-2006

 

[GJB123]

In his column in a Dutch newspaper Thijs Zonneveld seems pretty certain that Classicomano Luigi refers to Thomas Dekker (with Luigi being a reference to Dekker's trainer Luigi Cecchini) and that Classicomano refers to Flecha (who btw won his case against the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant in front of the Netherlands Press Council when they published as such). For what it is worth.

 

[sniper]

Re:

In his column in a Dutch newspaper Thijs Zonneveld seems pretty certain that Classicomano Luigi refers to Thomas Dekker (with Luigi being a reference to Dekker's trainer Luigi Cecchini)

Cecchini was also Fabian's trainer, at least in 2006.

If Thijs has this info first hand from Thomas, I'm convinced of course.