Quintana??

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

In 2011 an Aicar treatment for a procyclist was rumored to cost around 150.000 dollar.
Yes, expensive.
What the current price is, I have no idea.

source for the 150.000 dollar? according to dr ferrari it could be traced and was useless in it's stimulant effects. I don't think anyone would use it if even doping doctors advice against it

Ferrari has said many things, some truthful, some blatant lies and many whose truthfulness value lies in between...

Concerning AICAR testing, only cologne seems to have a working test, and i'm not sure about it's practicality. AICAR is an endogenous molecule, and one that does not seem incredibly complex at first glance. It's not like EPO where there's subtle difference between the human version and the exogenous version (EPO is a very big glycoprotein, if i'm not mistaken there's even some variation in the endogenous forms of it) and you can "just" use some form of chromatography or electrophoresis to separate them.
I don't know about AICAR, maybe a isotope carbone ratio test would work, but it's quite expensive.
So they probably would end up with a "working" test just like the testo test (not exactly the same mechanism,but for the sake of example), where you set a threshold and use the expensive test when the athlete exceed it. Since it will probably be set high, that's leaving plenty of room to microdose... Or manipulation by bypassing the threshold and going straight to te second test with certain athletes... Ok a bit of conspiracy but remember the Verbruggen quote...
Working on a molecule still in clinical trials might not help them too...

If you haven't already read this paper, you might find it interesting on the testing protocols:

J Physiol Pharmacol. 2014 Aug;65(4):469-76.

Metabolic modulators of the exercise response: doping control analysis of an agonist of the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor δ (GW501516) and 5-aminoimidazole-4-carboxamide ribonucleotide (AICAR).

Pokrywka A1, Cholbinski P, Kaliszewski P, Kowalczyk K, Koncza

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25179079

 

[Escarabajo]

The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.

Times to ADH could have been affected.

I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.

Times to ADH could have been affected.

I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.

armstrong was the worst in 99, of which those 2004 results came. zulle aparantly was riding clean that tour and scared ****less after 98. tells you how much talent he really had. same thing with christophe moreau, who julich had told vaughters, was riding completely clean (after 98)

 

[Nomad]

Re:

The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.

Times to ADH could have been affected.

I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.

Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.

 

[jens_attacks]

Re: Re:

The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.

Times to ADH could have been affected.

I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.

Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.

Passage du gois says hello

In terms of climbing speeds, yes the 1999 tour is maybe the slowest tour since 1993. It is not a myth that many teams raced without any jet fuel.

And i agree that it was the weakest lance of all the 7 wins. Which says a lot about what happened the next years...

 

[sniper]

Some racing without extravagant jet fuel, sure, but zuelle clean? Whayahahayahahauaj.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.

Times to ADH could have been affected.

I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.

Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.

only due to passage de bois. otherwise zulle would've won. I think zulle lost more than 7 minutes there among many other gc favorites and riders who retired

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

Some racing without extravagant jet fuel, sure, but zuelle clean? Whayahahayahahauaj.

he definintely used no epo in 99 (according to l'equipe tests). not to mention the guy was a mental wreckage after the tour 98. I don't think he ever juiced afterwards. same with moreau

 

[Nomad]

Re: Re:

Some racing without extravagant jet fuel, sure, but zuelle clean? Whayahahayahahauaj.

he definintely used no epo in 99 (according to l'equipe tests). not to mention the guy was a mental wreckage after the tour 98. I don't think he ever juiced afterwards. same with moreau

You're spot on...looking at his palmares after 99, his performances plummeted badly in the few GTs he did before retirement. You guys at The Clinic are sharp as a tack

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re: Re:

The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.

Times to ADH could have been affected.

I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.

Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.

only due to passage de bois. otherwise zulle would've won. I think zulle lost more than 7 minutes there among many other gc favorites and riders who retired

No he didn't. He lost 6 minutes there and lost another 1'40 in the time trials and Sestriere.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.

Times to ADH could have been affected.

I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.

Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.

only due to passage de bois. otherwise zulle would've won. I think zulle lost more than 7 minutes there among many other gc favorites and riders who retired

No he didn't. He lost 6 minutes there and lost another 1'40 in the time trials and Sestriere.

ah, well he would've finished within 2 minutes then. still pretty good. but lance was relatively weak in 99, as was his team

 

[sniper]

Quintana in good form early on in the season.
Made me think about this one from Movistar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz5uqE4RVjc

"Hide it, so that nobody sees it", one mechanic says to the other who picks up the bike and sneaks away with it.

Good to know that Cookson's got it all under control.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yes, everyone who does well must be either doping, motordoping or both. And anyone who regularly beat them must be as well. And anyone who is pretty close in terms of performance level, and those who are close to them, and those who are close to them.

 

[Escarabajo]

Hey Sniper, at least you keep watching cycling!

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Yes, everyone who does well must be either doping, motordoping or both. And anyone who regularly beat them must be as well. And anyone who is pretty close in terms of performance level, and those who are close to them, and those who are close to them.

Last time i looked the testing was a joke, UCI still a joke, teams still run by ex dopers and ex enabling dopers, teams still full of people who have a culture to dope and cheat.

With all that in mind yep, riders are either doping, motordoping or both.

 

[hrotha]

None of which warrants topping a thread to re-post an old video that has no relevance to current events.

 

[Benotti69]

Quintana thread, Quintana vid.

 

[hrotha]

It's not a Quintana vid.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Hey Sniper, at least you keep watching cycling!

 

[sniper]

Re:

None of which warrants topping a thread to re-post an old video that has no relevance to current events.

perhaps certain current events have slipped past you?

 

[mike75]

Look, the reality is it's not so much about the doping, it's who people like or dislike. Because they are all doing something. Just like all the Lance haters, as if him cheating took wins away from all the true, clean riders like Jan Ullrich! All the posters who defend Froome must be British, or fanboys, or both, because if he's clean, they have to defend every other rider, because if a pure climber like Quintana is doping, there should be NO WAY Froome could possibly out-climb him. Admittedly, I dislike Froome more than most other current doped up riders, so I hope the doped up Quintana can give him a challenge this year.

 

[jahn]

Re:

Look, the reality is it's not so much about the doping, it's who people like or dislike. Because they are all doing something. Just like all the Lance haters, as if him cheating took wins away from all the true, clean riders like Jan Ullrich! All the posters who defend Froome must be British, or fanboys, or both, because if he's clean, they have to defend every other rider, because if a pure climber like Quintana is doping, there should be NO WAY Froome could possibly out-climb him. Admittedly, I dislike Froome more than most other current doped up riders, so I hope the doped up Quintana can give him a challenge this year.

Pretty much, the one exception being motor doping that would probably affect even the most hardened homer.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Yes, everyone who does well must be either doping, motordoping or both. And anyone who regularly beat them must be as well. And anyone who is pretty close in terms of performance level, and those who are close to them, and those who are close to them.

I hope this isn't an attempt at sarcasm.
.because the above pretty accurately captures recent cycling history.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

It's not a Quintana vid.

Quintana was in the race and it is his team Movistar in the video, to get pedantic.......

 

[fmk_RoI]

Read this and you'll feel like you stepped into a time machine and went back to the birth of Team Sky

The data push is being led by Luca, a Telefónica unit that helps companies find ways to profit from data they collect in the normal course of business. Telefónica’s chief data officer, Chema Alonso, a big cycling fan, and members of Luca decided to try using data to give the team an edge—and give Movistar a publicity boost by highlighting its doping-free reputation in a sport tarnished by the cheating of Lance Armstrong and dozens of others.

It’s not easy to bring everyone around to the idea that data can make a difference. Eusebio Unzué, the team’s manager for 32 years, says he’s better off following his gut when it comes to advising his riders, a strategy that’s helped him build Movistar into the world’s top-ranked team for the last four years. “In this sport, whoever has the best legs wins the race,” he says. De Alarcón says Unzué’s resistance is similar to what he encounters at companies where veteran managers trust their instincts more than technology, but he predicts even old-timers such as Unzué will eventually conclude that it’s never bad to have more information even if you rely on years of experience. Unzué grudgingly agrees. “Technology is more and more important and improving in certain aspects of preparation,” he says.

Link