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Quintana??

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May 26, 2009
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Re: Re:

Poursuivant said:
You have a point. I actually don't mean to bait anyone though. Truth is, I respect the Clinic and I like a lot of things that get said in here, not just with cycling but with other sports, there's some good threads, especially on tennis/athletics etc. that have doping problems but don't get a tiny whiff of the reputation that cycling has. But that's how cycling is, it's how it will be for a long, long time. And deservedly so.

I think you are right, I sometimes dip in here, and then do one. In all honesty mate, I get tired of the complete cycnicism in here. The scepticism for every action in every race, is actually pretty detrimental to anyones enjoyment of the sport. My issue with this sub-forum is, there's a clear anti-sky, anti-uk, ani-froome feel. Maybe some people don't like one, and that leads on to the other, and then onto the other, etc. I also think a lot of it is: members' seeing their favourite riders getting walloped, automatically you demonise the opposition, naturally, so in this sport you accuse the other of cheating. When the w/kg came out for Froomes PSM ride and you could tell people were expecting Riis level numbers, and eventually their expecations got p*ssed on, it was funny to see the brave face being put on, like eating a crap dinner at your future in-laws: mmm, lovely this! (swallows awkwardly)

I realise this isn't a sky thread, and I am not even a sky fan, at all, but I have grown more and more sympathetic to likes of Froome when people put out some of the things in the race threads, it's embarrassing, it's like being back in school when you are 10 talking about your favourite football team with your mates who support someone else. So, the hate endears me more to certain riders, especially when you have people making their way up La Toussuire just to prepare a nice big spit at someone they've never met who rides a bike, what is that all about?

The clinic has been great and really educational for me personally on subjects such as Lance. But I also think a lot of members will say, 'the sport hasn't changed', simply because they don't want it to change. What would they do? Virtually Anytime someone wins a race, a thread is opened about them in the clinic, and I do understand the cynicism, but I also believe that the big arms race has gone. This is a thread about Quintana, and I actually think he is clean. Is this sport clean? No. Is it cleaner than what it was, yes. At least, in my humble opinion.

Nice post. :)
 
Sep 29, 2012
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dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Dear Wiggo said:
argel said:
Froome is just the best debate, because even his detractors know there's a possibility he could be clean,

Wow. That's a lot of confidence in something that is patently untrue.

Hey Dw I'm disappointed in you. You lost the game. It was hilarious watching this new poster who just happened to stumble upon the clinic a few hours ago, make several obvious bait posts and not receive any reponse. It was predictable he was going to crank up the trollcraft further in an attempt to finally get a response.

I was hoping though that most clinic members had caught on to this and he would have to delve into one of his other accounts to construct fake responses to himself.

:eek:

In my defense, I am watching the Tour till 2am ish in the morning, and waking up 5 hours later as the sun rises, so the sleep deprivation is slowing me down.

le sigh.

I need to move to a European country for July. Thanks for the heads up :D
 
Re: Re:

Poursuivant said:
The Hitch said:
Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, and gave many clinic members raging hard-ons?! Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D :D


Interesting that when people actually challenge your view or ask you difficult questions, pow, you strangely vanish from the thread.

Only come in now and again to throw baits around.

You have a point. I actually don't mean to bait anyone though. Truth is, I respect the Clinic and I like a lot of things that get said in here, not just with cycling but with other sports, there's some good threads, especially on tennis/athletics etc. that have doping problems but don't get a tiny whiff of the reputation that cycling has. But that's how cycling is, it's how it will be for a long, long time. And deservedly so.

I think you are right, I sometimes dip in here, and then do one. In all honesty mate, I get tired of the complete cycnicism in here. The scepticism for every action in every race, is actually pretty detrimental to anyones enjoyment of the sport. My issue with this sub-forum is, there's a clear anti-sky, anti-uk, ani-froome feel. Maybe some people don't like one, and that leads on to the other, and then onto the other, etc. I also think a lot of it is: members' seeing their favourite riders getting walloped, automatically you demonise the opposition, naturally, so in this sport you accuse the other of cheating. When the w/kg came out for Froomes PSM ride and you could tell people were expecting Riis level numbers, and eventually their expecations got p*ssed on, it was funny to see the brave face being put on, like eating a crap dinner at your future in-laws: mmm, lovely this! (swallows awkwardly)

I realise this isn't a sky thread, and I am not even a sky fan, at all, but I have grown more and more sympathetic to likes of Froome when people put out some of the things in the race threads, it's embarrassing, it's like being back in school when you are 10 talking about your favourite football team with your mates who support someone else. So, the hate endears me more to certain riders, especially when you have people making their way up La Toussuire just to prepare a nice big spit at someone they've never met who rides a bike, what is that all about?

The clinic has been great and really educational for me personally on subjects such as Lance. But I also think a lot of members will say, 'the sport hasn't changed', simply because they don't want it to change. What would they do? Virtually Anytime someone wins a race, a thread is opened about them in the clinic, and I do understand the cynicism, but I also believe that the big arms race has gone. This is a thread about Quintana, and I actually think he is clean. Is this sport clean? No. Is it cleaner than what it was, yes. At least, in my humble opinion.
well I'm surprised at your response and don't really disagree with much. Apart from Quintana being clean. I wouldn't bet my life on it but I find it very difficult to believe someone with that kind of ability riding for that team with those mid season absences, could be clean.
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Re:

argel said:
I'd be prepared to believe Quintana was clean, more so than any of the other three. Nibali... not really. In fact anyone so closely associated with Vino is already fighting an uphill battle to prove their innocence. Contador has already been busted but I don't know if he is fading naturally or just off the juice for now.

Froome is just the best debate, because even his detractors know there's a possibility he could be clean, and his defenders know that there's also a possibility he could be dirty. I don't think it's a mad pro-Quintana conspiracy.
What makes Vino more dodgy than Unzue? He's been working with dopers his whole career
 
Jul 24, 2015
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Dear Wiggo said:
argel said:
Froome is just the best debate, because even his detractors know there's a possibility he could be clean,

Wow. That's a lot of confidence in something that is patently untrue.

Hey Dw I'm disappointed in you. You lost the game. It was hilarious watching this new poster who just happened to stumble upon the clinic a few hours ago, make several obvious bait posts and not receive any reponse. It was predictable he was going to crank up the trollcraft further in an attempt to finally get a response.

I was hoping though that most clinic members had caught on to this and he would have to delve into one of his other accounts to construct fake responses to himself.

Isn't this basically what I've just said earlier? That it's easier for you to dismiss me based on the fact that I'm new and want empirical evidence and studies before I cast judgement? That it suits your position to do so?

You want my opinion, I post on another forum under the same username.

***edited by mods***

There's a Froome-skeptic post from 2013 that namechecks this forum :)
 
Jul 24, 2015
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Oh, erm, you'll probably need to register if you can be bothered to validate what I'm saying. Which you prbably won't since it would completely annihilate your argument :)
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Poursuivant said:
The Hitch said:
Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, and gave many clinic members raging hard-ons?! Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D


Interesting that when people actually challenge your view or ask you difficult questions, pow, you strangely vanish from the thread.

Only come in now and again to throw baits around.

You have a point. I actually don't mean to bait anyone though. Truth is, I respect the Clinic and I like a lot of things that get said in here, not just with cycling but with other sports, there's some good threads, especially on tennis/athletics etc. that have doping problems but don't get a tiny whiff of the reputation that cycling has. But that's how cycling is, it's how it will be for a long, long time. And deservedly so.

I think you are right, I sometimes dip in here, and then do one. In all honesty mate, I get tired of the complete cycnicism in here. The scepticism for every action in every race, is actually pretty detrimental to anyones enjoyment of the sport. My issue with this sub-forum is, there's a clear anti-sky, anti-uk, ani-froome feel. Maybe some people don't like one, and that leads on to the other, and then onto the other, etc. I also think a lot of it is: members' seeing their favourite riders getting walloped, automatically you demonise the opposition, naturally, so in this sport you accuse the other of cheating. When the w/kg came out for Froomes PSM ride and you could tell people were expecting Riis level numbers, and eventually their expecations got p*ssed on, it was funny to see the brave face being put on, like eating a crap dinner at your future in-laws: mmm, lovely this! (swallows awkwardly)

I realise this isn't a sky thread, and I am not even a sky fan, at all, but I have grown more and more sympathetic to likes of Froome when people put out some of the things in the race threads, it's embarrassing, it's like being back in school when you are 10 talking about your favourite football team with your mates who support someone else. So, the hate endears me more to certain riders, especially when you have people making their way up La Toussuire just to prepare a nice big spit at someone they've never met who rides a bike, what is that all about?

The clinic has been great and really educational for me personally on subjects such as Lance. But I also think a lot of members will say, 'the sport hasn't changed', simply because they don't want it to change. What would they do? Virtually Anytime someone wins a race, a thread is opened about them in the clinic, and I do understand the cynicism, but I also believe that the big arms race has gone. This is a thread about Quintana, and I actually think he is clean. Is this sport clean? No. Is it cleaner than what it was, yes. At least, in my humble opinion.
well I'm surprised at your response and don't really disagree with much. Apart from Quintana being clean. I wouldn't bet my life on it but I find it very difficult to believe someone with that kind of ability riding for that team with those mid season absences, could be clean.

I know what you're saying, but let's say you're Quintana, would him living in Spain make him more believable? Not to me. I find it completely understandable that he wants to stay at home close to his wife and new child. And I know Quintana retaliated to Nibali's comments, but I actually don't even think Nibali meant anything dark by them, he was just running through his opposition: 'Froome, looked ok in Dauphine, Contador, may be tired from giro, Quintana, well I don't even know where he is?' Only in this sport is that made out into a doping story. Although I agree that, that team are very moody.

It will have this reputation for a while, in the meantime no-one bats an eyelid when Justin Gatlin is running incredible times all year, not one competitor or commentator calls him out on it, yet look at the scepticism/vitriol directed at Froome this month, when let's be brutally honest, not one of his performances have been exceptional. PSM was absolutely perfect climb for Sky, if Froome could design a course, weather, timing in race, etc., it would be that.

Anyway, to get back to your Quintana point, I agree his team are very shady, but Quintana has always struck me as a sort of one-off climbing diddy talent, who will just f*ck off to Colombia and do his own training, in a proper, professional way, not like Carlos, KFC Betancur :D
 
Re: Re:

carton said:
Eagle said:
What makes Vino more dodgy than Unzue? He's been working with dopers his whole career
On paper, nothing.
Vino does have a certain je ne sais quoi about him. Maybe it's just a bad stereotype. He could play the bad guy in any number of b-movies.

Haha, Vino does look capable of nearly killing Jean Claude Van Damme, only to be eventually killed by a giant machine in his huge, (yet undiscovered until Van Damme comes along) drug laundering factory :D
 
Re: Re:

carton said:
Escarabajo said:
roundabout said:
Escarabajo said:
Quintana:

Around 70% drafting. Assume some slight headwind:

5.58 Watts / Kg
5.66 Watts/ Kg (Ferrari's formula)

Toussuire is quite an irregular climb for the purposes of using VAM.
Let's wait for the power meter readings for calibration. :)
Gesink, (edit: PM, if it wasn't clear) through Vetooo again: 372W.

So that'll be 5.24W/kg.
I'll take the under on 5.7W/kg for Nairito.
I estimated 367 watts for Gesink. That is around ~5.24 W/kg for him depending on his actual weight. And I put the same exposure to the wind for him because if people haven't noticed he dragged Contador and Valverde when Quintana was attacking. LOL.
 
Re: Re:

Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D :D
I have Froome with 6.14 watts/Kg on that climb if his weight is true which I don't believe. But that was a 40+ climb and that was very impressive.
 
After reading the recent posts on this thread, I find fair for some to question why Quintana isn't given the same treatment as Froome. Some see anti-brit feelings. I don't. If the website was called Swimming News, its Clinic would be filled with posters wondering how the French became a powerhouse in recent years. Here, on Cycling News, the question is about the Brits. It could be about the Columbians as well. Although in their case, it is more like a resurgence. A big time resurgence. And it comes with almost comical tales of full-*** doping at every competitive level in Colombia.

But back to the thread: Quintana?? IMO, until he wins a GT by dominating the big guys, he will be able to somewhat fly under the radar. In a nutshell, scrutiny gets bigger as successes get bigger.

It is true that every time a guy wins, he gets his thread in The Clinic. It's a bit sad. Many here have been duped once, fooled twice, few believe that all that glitters is gold. It would help if there was more transparency (Froome/Sky and the rest), or if riders didn't disappear off the cycling map for months at a time (Quintana). If they were not buddy-buddy with or be mentored by Armstrong (Van Garderen), working for Vino (Nibali) or until recently Riis (Contador), or alongside Valverde and under Unzue (Quintana). Really shady picture.

IMO, the question is not: is Quintana doping, but rather: how much?
 
May 13, 2015
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I think Quintana does something. The reason he gets less scrutiny is because if the peloton was 100% clean he would still podium a GT. Froome on the other hand would morph back in to the pre 2011 Donkey. Quintana has been showing signs of greatness since he was 21, Froome never showed anything and then presto!
 
Re: Re:

Poursuivant said:
The Hitch said:
Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, and gave many clinic members raging hard-ons?! Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D :D


Interesting that when people actually challenge your view or ask you difficult questions, pow, you strangely vanish from the thread.

Only come in now and again to throw baits around.

You have a point. I actually don't mean to bait anyone though. Truth is, I respect the Clinic and I like a lot of things that get said in here, not just with cycling but with other sports, there's some good threads, especially on tennis/athletics etc. that have doping problems but don't get a tiny whiff of the reputation that cycling has. But that's how cycling is, it's how it will be for a long, long time. And deservedly so.

I think you are right, I sometimes dip in here, and then do one. In all honesty mate, I get tired of the complete cycnicism in here. The scepticism for every action in every race, is actually pretty detrimental to anyones enjoyment of the sport. My issue with this sub-forum is, there's a clear anti-sky, anti-uk, ani-froome feel. Maybe some people don't like one, and that leads on to the other, and then onto the other, etc. I also think a lot of it is: members' seeing their favourite riders getting walloped, automatically you demonise the opposition, naturally, so in this sport you accuse the other of cheating. When the w/kg came out for Froomes PSM ride and you could tell people were expecting Riis level numbers, and eventually their expecations got p*ssed on, it was funny to see the brave face being put on, like eating a crap dinner at your future in-laws: mmm, lovely this! (swallows awkwardly)

I realise this isn't a sky thread, and I am not even a sky fan, at all, but I have grown more and more sympathetic to likes of Froome when people put out some of the things in the race threads, it's embarrassing, it's like being back in school when you are 10 talking about your favourite football team with your mates who support someone else. So, the hate endears me more to certain riders, especially when you have people making their way up La Toussuire just to prepare a nice big spit at someone they've never met who rides a bike, what is that all about?

The clinic has been great and really educational for me personally on subjects such as Lance. But I also think a lot of members will say, 'the sport hasn't changed', simply because they don't want it to change. What would they do? Virtually Anytime someone wins a race, a thread is opened about them in the clinic, and I do understand the cynicism, but I also believe that the big arms race has gone. This is a thread about Quintana, and I actually think he is clean. Is this sport clean? No. Is it cleaner than what it was, yes. At least, in my humble opinion.

Why the hate on Froome and not Quintana, if we take as axiomatic that both are doping? Well, in some important sense it is connected with who is dominating and who is being dominated. In this tour, it is more about the teams than the individuals. Had Aru gone on an smashed the Giro, as many widely expected he would, it would have been hard to stomach, simply because of what Astana were doing. I am not a natural hater, but I was ready to hate then.

I remember hating Indurain and not Bugno, Riis and not Zulle, Armstrong and not Ullrich. In each case it seemed irrational or deeply partial, and although it remains very irrational, it strikes me in hindsight that there was something deeply intuitive about those sentiments: it is offensive to watch a domination bred in a chemical factory.

You have to respect that people who know the sport well, and see things which intuitively are very NQR (for example, Thomas riding like a GC goat), will have sentiments based on those intuitions which are very contextual and historical: it is subtle and good knowledge.
 
Re: Re:

The Hegelian said:
Poursuivant said:
The Hitch said:
Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, and gave many clinic members raging hard-ons?! Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D :D


Interesting that when people actually challenge your view or ask you difficult questions, pow, you strangely vanish from the thread.

Only come in now and again to throw baits around.

You have a point. I actually don't mean to bait anyone though. Truth is, I respect the Clinic and I like a lot of things that get said in here, not just with cycling but with other sports, there's some good threads, especially on tennis/athletics etc. that have doping problems but don't get a tiny whiff of the reputation that cycling has. But that's how cycling is, it's how it will be for a long, long time. And deservedly so.

I think you are right, I sometimes dip in here, and then do one. In all honesty mate, I get tired of the complete cycnicism in here. The scepticism for every action in every race, is actually pretty detrimental to anyones enjoyment of the sport. My issue with this sub-forum is, there's a clear anti-sky, anti-uk, ani-froome feel. Maybe some people don't like one, and that leads on to the other, and then onto the other, etc. I also think a lot of it is: members' seeing their favourite riders getting walloped, automatically you demonise the opposition, naturally, so in this sport you accuse the other of cheating. When the w/kg came out for Froomes PSM ride and you could tell people were expecting Riis level numbers, and eventually their expecations got p*ssed on, it was funny to see the brave face being put on, like eating a crap dinner at your future in-laws: mmm, lovely this! (swallows awkwardly)

I realise this isn't a sky thread, and I am not even a sky fan, at all, but I have grown more and more sympathetic to likes of Froome when people put out some of the things in the race threads, it's embarrassing, it's like being back in school when you are 10 talking about your favourite football team with your mates who support someone else. So, the hate endears me more to certain riders, especially when you have people making their way up La Toussuire just to prepare a nice big spit at someone they've never met who rides a bike, what is that all about?

The clinic has been great and really educational for me personally on subjects such as Lance. But I also think a lot of members will say, 'the sport hasn't changed', simply because they don't want it to change. What would they do? Virtually Anytime someone wins a race, a thread is opened about them in the clinic, and I do understand the cynicism, but I also believe that the big arms race has gone. This is a thread about Quintana, and I actually think he is clean. Is this sport clean? No. Is it cleaner than what it was, yes. At least, in my humble opinion.

Why the hate on Froome and not Quintana, if we take as axiomatic that both are doping? Well, in some important sense it is connected with who is dominating and who is being dominated. In this tour, it is more about the teams than the individuals. Had Aru gone on an smashed the Giro, as many widely expected he would, it would have been hard to stomach, simply because of what Astana were doing. I am not a natural hater, but I was ready to hate then.

I remember hating Indurain and not Bugno, Riis and not Zulle, Armstrong and not Ullrich. In each case it seemed irrational or deeply partial, and although it remains very irrational, it strikes me in hindsight that there was something deeply intuitive about those sentiments: it is offensive to watch a domination bred in a chemical factory.

You have to respect that people who know the sport well, and see things which intuitively are very NQR (for example, Thomas riding like a GC goat), will have sentiments based on those intuitions which are very contextual and historical: it is subtle and good knowledge.
 
Jul 20, 2015
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Re: Re:

Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D :D

He's never been in the yellow jersey, makes a big difference to the level of scrutiny.
 
Re: Re:

gazr99 said:
Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D :D

He's never been in the yellow jersey, makes a big difference to the level of scrutiny.

Bingo. While he has won a GT, has he made one boring through bludgeoning tactics of his entire team? Has his team declared him clean and smarter than everyone about training in the english-speaking media? Has he repeatedly insulted the intelligence of cycling fans? Does he have legions of fans defending his cleanliness despite all evidence to the contrary?

Nope. Pretty much everyone who understands the sport assumes him to be as doped as everyone else. Not terribly controversial, so not much chatter.
 
Jul 20, 2015
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Re: Re:

red_flanders said:
gazr99 said:
Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D :D

He's never been in the yellow jersey, makes a big difference to the level of scrutiny.

Bingo. While he has won a GT, has he made one boring through domination? Has his team declared him clean and smarter than everyone about training in the english-speaking media? Has he repeatedly insulted the intelligence of cycling fans? Does he have legions of fans defending his cleanliness despite all evidence to the contrary?

Nope. Pretty much everyone who understands the sport assumes him to be as doped as everyone else. Not terribly controversial, so not much chatter.

Well he did win the Giro.

He has much evidence as critics have on Froome, some estimates on w/kg he produces, almost beating Froome & Sky in his first tour at 23, people not sure what he does or if he is tested in Colombia, then you mix it all together to have little evidence but if you believe in your theory long enough, you will find a way to make it work. Some people just have a gut feeling on who's doping and who isn't
 
Re: Re:

gazr99 said:
red_flanders said:
gazr99 said:
Poursuivant said:
bigcog said:
http://www.chronoswatts.com/watts/19/

Alpe D'huez

37 Nairo Quintana Colombie Tour de France 2013 (#18) 39'50 6.25 w/kg 426

Why hasn't this ET performance been mentioned ? lol

Wait, wait, wait: Quintana put out more w/kg, in the third week of his tour in 2013, than Froome did on his 'mutant' stage 10 this year,the one that broke the internet, Even Froomes biggest estimates was 6.09 w/kg, and that was the first mountain stage of the tour, and it was after a rest day! That is brilliant :D :D :D :D :D

He's never been in the yellow jersey, makes a big difference to the level of scrutiny.

Bingo. While he has won a GT, has he made one boring through domination? Has his team declared him clean and smarter than everyone about training in the english-speaking media? Has he repeatedly insulted the intelligence of cycling fans? Does he have legions of fans defending his cleanliness despite all evidence to the contrary?

Nope. Pretty much everyone who understands the sport assumes him to be as doped as everyone else. Not terribly controversial, so not much chatter.

Well he did win the Giro.

He has much evidence as critics have on Froome, some estimates on w/kg he produces, almost beating Froome & Sky in his first tour at 23, people not sure what he does or if he is tested in Colombia, then you mix it all together to have little evidence but if you believe in your theory long enough, you will find a way to make it work. Some people just have a gut feeling on who's doping and who isn't

Plenty of evidence, and I don't really see anyone arguing he's clean. As such, less churn around the topic of Quintana. Also the lack of blatant transformation makes appear it less ridiculous even though there's no real difference.
 
Re: Re:

Escarabajo said:
carton said:
Escarabajo said:
roundabout said:
Escarabajo said:
Quintana:

Around 70% drafting. Assume some slight headwind:

5.58 Watts / Kg
5.66 Watts/ Kg (Ferrari's formula)

Toussuire is quite an irregular climb for the purposes of using VAM.
Let's wait for the power meter readings for calibration. :)
Gesink, (edit: PM, if it wasn't clear) through Vetooo again: 372W.

So that'll be 5.24W/kg.
I'll take the under on 5.7W/kg for Nairito.
I estimated 367 watts for Gesink. That is around ~5.24 W/kg for him depending on his actual weight. And I put the same exposure to the wind for him because if people haven't noticed he dragged Contador and Valverde when Quintana was attacking. LOL.

Why not use 75 kg as his race weight then as he is a big boy when your agenda is obvious?
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Quintana has never used banned performance enhancing drugs.

There are actually people other than Ryo that believe (ie >50%) this? If you are one of those (Ryo or Poursuivant?), it would be great if you could walk us through the thought process that led you there.
 
He has already gained a kilo during the race to be at 5.24 W/kg for the climb :)

And FWIW trying to compensate for the downhill bit in the middle of the climb I get roughly 5.75 W/kg using VAM for Quintana which again is not very satisfactory considering all the assumptions needing to be made.

The last ~6km or so were insane though. Putting over 100 seconds on everyone other than Froome on an average gradient of under 6% was truly a magnificent performance.