Race Design Thread

[lemon cheese cake]

The last delay was me being away, but the next delay to the Ronde van Nederland is just ginal adjustments to the final stage of the race.
But here is a sneak peak at the final climb:
https://youtu.be/89Sw-OtFmvY

Go on! Have a guess!

 

[Progsprach]

Re:

Stage 9 Torre Annunziata - Maiori ITT, 68,6km
Maybe this one is a little bit over the top, but i like it.

Well at least it isn't the most ridiculous time trial posted here, this one might be a bit shorter, but it contains a 2000m climb (posted by me, what a surprise)

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Well at least it isn't the most ridiculous time trial posted here, this one might be a bit shorter, but it contains a 2000m climb (posted by me, what a surprise)

I'll still have a totally flat time trial in the third week that is over 30km long, the Giro has always been a more climber-friendly race, but i think those 2 should balance the race, like i said, the climbs in the first TT are power climbs and not ideal for the pure climbers.

 

[Progsprach]

Santa Eularia des Riu - Sant Antoni de Portmany ITT (22km)
Now some people might be thinking: "Another time trial, I thought this was supposed to be the climber's GT." And that is true, but I decided to frontload the time trials, so this second one is already the last. This one is a little more friendly to TTers, because it is mostly flat, except for a short climb (1.4km@4.7%) at the time check in San Rafael. After that the course is actually slightly downhill until the finish on the other side of Ibiza. We will now transition to the mainland, more specifically to a well known coastal city.

 

[LPP68!]

Thats what I mean when I said it gave me inspiration. I liked it so borrowed it without asking. Sorry if you take any offense that I used it with asking. :b

I'm not at all offended. I'm even flattered a bit.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Stage 9 Torre Annunziata - Maiori ITT, 68,6km
Maybe this one is a little bit over the top, but i like it.

Well at least it isn't the most ridiculous time trial posted here, this one might be a bit shorter, but it contains a 2000m climb (posted by me, what a surprise)

Did you forget about your descent-of-Mauna-Kea ITT? That was perhaps the one the real life péloton would flip out about the most

 

[Progsprach]

Re: Re:

Did you forget about your descent-of-Mauna-Kea ITT? That was perhaps the one the real life péloton would flip out about the most

How could I, but I didn't want to compare his almost reasonable seeming stage with that Frankenstein's monster I created, that seemed excessive. (that stage was only comparable with the 5000m Altitude dirt roads and the rather narrow mountain road split in two to allow ascent and descent simultanously)

 

[phil-i-am]

Tour de Pologne 2015 parcours are now revealed and as always I'm dissapoined a bit. Therefore, I'd like to introduce you my own version of this race.

I want to prove that even though Poland is mostly flat, there is still a room to make a race. There are no alpes here, so I don't see a reason to go to Italy (look TdP 2013) or to Slovakia. The highest point of my TdP is Przelecz Salmopolska (929m), but still these hilly/mid mountain stages should witnessed a lot of drama and exciting competition. There are a lot of other climbs than Gliczarów or Bukowina.

I tried to make parcours that are quite possible to ride in real life though. There are 7 stages, including one ITT with a total length of 1100 km (compared to 1255km in 2014). Sometimes roads are narrow, but generally a surface is not bad. I stay with Krakow's ITT at the last stage and introduce rounds on the 4th day.

Map:



1. Kołobrzeg - Szczecin 194km **
2. Gorzów Wielkopolski - Poznań 155km *
3. Świebodzin - Świeradów-Zdrój 183km ***
4. Jelenia Góra - Karpacz 193km *****
5. Wałbrzych - Bystrzyca Kłodzka 170km ****
6. Bielsko-Biała - Magurka Wilkowiecka 178km *****
7. Kraków - Kraków (ITT) 22km ***

I will be showing details of each stage in next posts

 

[Tonton]

This is an amazing thread, the "Travel Channel" of cycling in many ways, and I will try to read it more often. You guys rock. Keep up the good work!

 

[Gigs_98]

Tour de slovenie stage 2: Trieste-Crnomelj (194 km)
After the time trial on stage 1 I made a stage which won't effect the gc. However the course is difficult and there is even a first category climb. The reason why there won't be attacks by gc contenders is because this pass is the last serious one of the day although there is an interesting descent near the end. The stage would probably be decided in a reduced sprint or between the break away members. It starts in Trieste so there is a little transfer to italy but after the first climb to Basovizza and only 13 km the route will be in slovenia again. The route will go eastwards until the it leaves slovenia again but again only for some kilometres. However this time the section in the foreign country will be more interesting because it leads into the first category climb mentioned before which has the top on the settlement Bezgovica. For the rest of the stage there will be hardly any ascending also the descent I mentioned before as well. The finish will be in Crnomelj a town located in the south east of slovenia.

Triest:

Crnomelj:

A picture of the climb to Bezgovica

Climbs:
Basovizza 3rd cat.
Sembije 4th cat
Masun 2nd cat.
kozji vrh 4th cat.
Bezgovica 1st cat.

 

[Progsprach]

Barcelona - Cambrils (223km)
We begin our time on the main land with a lumpy ride of medium difficulty from Barcelona. The first ascent to El Lledoner (11.3km@3.4%, cat3) is gentle, but long, sloping up to 5% to toward the end. A good 50km after that the riders feel the roads rising again, to St. Cristina (3.9km@4.1%,cat4). The two intermediate sprints at Vallis and Reus are placed in the middle of stage. prior to the final double of ascents to Pradell dela Texeita (10.5km@3.1%,cat3) and Tivissa-Vandellos (5.7km@4.1%, cat4), with both having more decent slopes of 5-6% towards the end. The stage ends in Cambrils about 10km after the last descent.

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 10 Verona - Barbarano Vicentino; 169,9km

After the first week we have a long transfer to Verona, so this year we'll totally skip Central Italy.
After the restday we'll start with a hard hilly stage, the first climb is Montecchio after 10,8km, 8km at 4,9%.
After the descent and a few rolling km we have the next climb of the day, 5,5km at 5,4%.
The next climb starts right after the tricky descent, it's 3 short climbs with 2 2km long sections of false flat between them, the first is 4km at 5%, the 2nd 3,1km at 6% and the 3rd 2,6km at 5,8%.
The next climb is 6km at 6,2%, followed by another one that is 4,8km at 8% with 400m at 15,3%.
After the descent we have 15km of false flat, the the clib to borgo starts, 9km at 3,6% but the central part is false flat.
After a short descent we have a short steep climb, 3,2km at 8,9% and the following descent will bring the riders down to Barbarano Vicentino for the first time.
Right after that we have an uncategorised climb 2,6km at 5,7% with 300m at 10%.
The following descent is pretty gentle and after that the riders will have to climb the 3,2km at 8,9% climb and descent to Barbarano Vicentino once again, the stage finishes right after the final descent.
This is a nice stage for ambushes, we could see some action between the gc guys on the steep final climb and the descent, but with bad weather the whole stage could be brutal.
Barbarano Vicentino:

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 11 Vicenza - Tarvisio; 233km
The final 183km (the first 50km are plain flat):

A really long transitional stage that should go to the breakaway.
Not much to say here, the first part is flat,the only climb of the day is Sella Nevea, 11,4km at 5,8% and ends with 20km to go, then we have a short descent followed by 16km of slightly downhill false flat.
Not much to say here, this should go to the breakaway, with the first really hard mountain stage on the next day most teams will try to save their firepower.
It's not the hardest stage in the world but it's fairly long and with a hard hilly stage before it someone could have a bad day on the next day that will be the first hard mountain stage.
Tarvisio:

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 12 Tarvisio – Ravascletto ; 203km

The Climbs:
Naßfeldpass/Passo di Pramollo; 12km at 7,8%
Passo del Cason di Lanza; 15,7km at 6,3%,
Forcella di Lius; 4,3km at 9,9%
Sella Valcalda; 6km at 6,4%
Monte Crostis; 14km at 10,1%
Monte Zoncolan; 10,1km at 11,9%
Sella Valcalda; 6km at 6,4%
The first really hard mountain stage of the Giro, the sprinters will hate this one.
The race starts in Tarvisio and the riders will travel to Austria and ride trough Hermagor, the first 40km are rolling and still pretty easy, but after 42km the first climb of the day starts, Nassfeldpass, Right after the descent to Pontebba the next climb starts, Passo del Cason di Lanza, 15,7km at 6,3% but very irregular with a few 20% steep ramps. The descent has a few very steep parts and will bring the riders to Paularo and right after the descent the nect climb already starts, Focella Lius, a short legbreaker. The following descent isn't very hard and is followed by the next climb, Sella Valcarnica. After that the first monster of the day, Crostis, followed by the terrible technical descent. But this is only the beginning after that we have Zoncolan from Ovaro, followed by the descent to Sutrio not as hard as the Crostis, but the 2nd part of the descent is still pretty technical. After that the riders will climb again Sella Valcalda and finish in Ravascletto, the last 800m are flat
This stage could be brutal, the climbs before Crostis are already pretty hard and if someone is having a bad day we could see some action already on the Crostis. The race will explode on the Zoncolan, the technical descent could also create gaps and the final climb that is an easier one will be brutal after those 2 monsters we could see huge gaps. After the long ITT this will be the first opportunity for the pure climbers and the next stage is pretty easy, so we should get long range attacks and a great stage to watch.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

But this is only the beginning after that we have Zoncolan from Ovaro, followed by the descent to Sutrio not as hard as the Crostis, but the 2nd part of the descent is still pretty technical. After that the riders will climb again Sella Valcalda and finish in Ravascletto, the last 800m are flat

I just noticed that this is exactly the same sort of finish as the mortirolo-aprica finish...just harder

 

[phil-i-am]

My Tour de Pologne - stage 1.

Kołobrzeg - Szczecin 194km **

MAP:

PROFILE:

CLIMBS:
Klif Gosań (cat.3) 88,6 km
Szczecin-Panorama (cat.3) 194 km - 1,0 km at 7,1%
DESCRIPTION:
Tour de Pologne is held on August and I'm sure it'd be great idea to start the race near the Baltic Sea coast. High temperatures and very wide sandy beaches attract countless of tourists to beautyful places like Kolobrzeg where my TdP will be started. Riders are going to be breathing a baltic breeze for roughly 100km, as the route leads along the sea that long. The first GPM in this race is definitely not a factor, but there is high risk of echelons to that point and that might make the race more interesting. Second part of stage starts when riders turn left and head south along the Szczecin's Lagoon. It's windy too. Especially if wind blows from west. After 190 km of mostly flat roads there is a surprise for riders - short bump to the finish line. 1000 meters of 7,1% averange - very straight and quite wide. Finish line is close to big hotel with view on Szczecin. If Orica Greenedge brings Matthews, Albasini or Gerrans - they will be in the mix. Riders like Kwiatkowski, Sagan, Van Avermaet, Allaphillipe, Lobato, Cancellara should be also in competition for yellow jearsey.

Kołobrzeg:

Szczecin:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Looking forward to the Karpacz stage. Always miss that from the old Tour de Pologne.

Edit:

Thread update: I have fallen waaaaay behind on collating the links, thanks primarily to a brief holiday and the Doping Draft. I've also been finishing collating my Vuelta, so I will be trying to balance the Doping Draft, posting a race here and collating the thread for a while yet - bear with me however, as I am determined that at some point we will be back on point.

 

[phil-i-am]

My Tour de Pologne - stage 2

Gorzów Wielkopolski - Poznań 155km *

MAP:


PROFILE:


DESCRIPTION:
No doubt this day is for sprinters. I don't like idea of very long flat stages so this one cannot be compared to long flat marathons from Tdp 2014. After 20 years the race will come back to Gorzów Wielkopolski. Poznan hosted Tour de Polonge stage in 2007, when Danilo Napolitano from Lampre won a bunch sprint. Riders and fans have an opportunity to look up closly to this marvelous city, as the bunch will fight for win in old downtown. 2km to go there is a 600m (easy and wide) cobbled section.

Gorzów Wielkopolski:

Poznań:

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Looking forward to the Karpacz stage. Always miss that from the old Tour de Pologne.

Edit:

Thread update: I have fallen waaaaay behind on collating the links, thanks primarily to a brief holiday and the Doping Draft. I've also been finishing collating my Vuelta, so I will be trying to balance the Doping Draft, posting a race here and collating the thread for a while yet - bear with me however, as I am determined that at some point we will be back on point.

But don't forget the Doping Draft, Libertine Seguros. I really thought you'd get Olano on your last pick BTW.

 

[Gigs_98]

tour de slovenie stage 3: Cronmelj-Maribor (190 km)
This will be a transistional stage from Cronmelj, the finish of stage 2, to Maribor in the north-east of slovenia. Most of the stage will be flat except the start and the finish. Especially the climb to Frajhajm which is only 24 km from the finish could make the stage interesting.
The course starts in Cronmelj from where it goes northwards to nove mesto. From there the route will turn its direction and go eastwards for some time until it changes its direction again and goes northwards again. The only point where the route changes its direction drastically is before the climb to Frajhajm starts. The climb will be about 14 km long with an average gradient of slightly under 6%. After a technical downhill there will be only be 10 flat kilometers to the finish so maybe there would even be the first attacks of the gc contenders.

Maribor:

ps: Does anyone of you know if there is any place on the mangrt where you can finish a stage?

 

[phil-i-am]

My Tour de Pologne - stage 3

Świebodzin - Świeradów-Zdrój 183km ***

MAP:


PROFILE:


CLIMBS:
Rząsiny (cat.3)
Strażacka (cat.2) - 1,8km at 8,8%

DESRIPTION:
Świebodzin, called ironically 'Polish Rio de Janeiro' (people laugh at the biggest Jesus statue) is the departure city of the third day's morning. This is kind of stage that (either you are a cyclist or a viewer) you have to be very patient. Last 10 kilometers are all that matters. First 5 of them is fight for position before they hit a hill. 1800 meters of climbing at 8,8% avarange gradient. The kilometer between 0,5km and 1,5km is 10,6% (max. 14,6%). It's short but steep climb and from the top there are less than 3 kilometers of downhill (fast, but with 2 hard turns) to the finish line. I could definitely see a lone riders arriving just ahead of small groups. GC favourites should be close.

Świebodzin:

Świeradów-Zdrój:

 

[Netserk]

Cool. I already like your Tour de Pologne very much.

 

[Progsprach]

Tortosa - Linares de Mora (221km)
We continue in a similar style as last stage, but increase the difficulty a little. Starting at sea level, the riders face six categorized climbs and couple of 2-4km@3-5% uncategorized mini-ascents. The first slopes at Prat de Comte are very gentle (9.8km@3.1%, cat4) and the ones to Fuentaspalda (8.1km@3.3%, cat4) are similar, although they ramp up to about 5-6% towards the end. The next climb of Torre Miro is basically the inverse in that it starts at 6% gradient and gets easier toward the end (9km@4.4%,cat3). The riders then start descending, passing the intermediate sprint at Morella, and cover about 30km of flats before tackling the final triple of climbs: at Ares del Meastre (6.2km@5.4%, cat3) , Estrella (7.5km@4.6%, cat3) and the final small climb to the finish at Linares de Mora (2.6km@4.9%, cat4) at 1620m of height.

 

[phil-i-am]

Re:

Cool. I already like your Tour de Pologne very much.

Thanks!

Looking forward to the Karpacz stage. Always miss that from the old Tour de Pologne.

Even though the stage has a finish line up Orlinek, like it used to be, rest of stage is a new design. Couple of new climbs make it harder. Hope you won't be dissapointed

My Tour de Pologne - stage 4

Jelenia Góra - Karpacz 193km *****

MAP:


PROFILE:

Last 10 kilometers:


CLIMBS:
Gorna (cat.2) - 4,1km at 6,8% (max. 9,8%)
Jagniatkow/Michałkowice (cat.2) - 3,8km at 6,7% (max. 10,5%)
Zachelmie x4 (cat.2) - 4,4km at 5,5% (max. 15,2%)
Limba x4 (cat.2) - 3,8km at 6,4% (max. 12,3%)
Karpacz Wang x4 (cat.1) - 6,3km at 6,3% (max. 20,3%!!!)
Karpacz Orlinek - 1,1km at 8,2% (max. 10,6%)

DESCRIPTION:
The queen stage comes in the fourth day of racing. Almost 200 kilometers always up or down. 14 categorized climbs and yet additional finish bump make this day one of the hardest in Tour de Pologne history. Climbs themselves cannot be compared with Passo Pordoi or Passo Pampeago both used back in 2013, but I'm sure this day could be at least that selective. Routes are mostly quite narrow and technical which makes attackers very hard to catch. Riders will start in Jelenia Gora and go towards Piechowice where the first climb begins. If break is still not formed this is a great opportunity. From now race will be hard to control. A downhill leads to Piechowice again where the next climb immediately kicks. A fast descent reaches the early slopes of ascent to Zachełmie where the first out of four round begins. 4,4 km at 5,5km doesn't sound scary, but this climb is very irregular. There are many sectors above 10% and close to the end gradient kicks up to 15%!. A short descent brings riders to Limba hill which is similiar to Zachełmie but more steedy. After downhill a bunch will be closing to the main obstacle of the day - a climb in Karpacz. Riders will pass the city sideways, just because race organizers want to make their legs burn and hurt. At the beggining climb is very easy but last 2,7km are close to 10% averange! The final kick is hard to notice on profile because of precision, but last 200 meters are above 20%!!! Last section is paved, but this is a very narrow short cut. A technical descent leads to Podgórzyn where Zachełmie climb kicks up again. The entire round (looks more like '8') has to be covered 3 times. 4 time will push cyclists through Zachelmie, Limba and Karpacz Wang again, but then they will turn left instead of right and after short loss of altitude they hit the list drag. 1100 meters at 8,2% is the last and part of Orlinek climb which used to be a decisive point in this race before TdP was introduced to World Tour.
Terrain favors long range attacks. Roads are narrow, winding and very irregular in terms of gradients. There are 3 intermediates where you can steal 18 seconds. Riders will cry attacking the last 1.cat climb for the last time. Having done roughly 200 kms in such kind of terrain, 3km at 10% with final ridiculous 20% drag they will struggle to stay on their bikes. And this in not the end! You still have to climb up Orlinek before getting well deserved rest.
GC will be upside down, but gaps in top10 are not that huge. Only better for rest of the race!

Jelenia Góra:

Karpacz/peloton climbing up Orlinek:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So the main climb is a short and steep extension to the classic Przełęcz Pod Czołem climb, but descending the classic harder side - is this climb the unused route via Myśliwska and Szkolna?