Race Thread

[lemon cheese cake]

If a rider chooses to jump from U23 to Elite in cross, does it need to also race as an Elite in MTB, for example?

From what I've seen, yes I think so. This isn't an issue for someone like Pieterse as she was planning to ride up anyway in order to hope to qualify for the Olympics.

 

[Ricco']

From what I've seen, yes I think so. This isn't an issue for someone like Pieterse as she was planning to ride up anyway in order to hope to qualify for the Olympics.

But she wouldn't need to race U23 to qualify for the Olympics or did she? Or is it because the Netherlands have Tauber and Terpstra as elite riders?

I think Kata Blanka Vas went to Tokyo while being still an U23 rider and the portuguese representative in that Olympics was also an Under 23 rider (and qualified by her position in an U23 World Championships).

I was thinking mainly about Van Empel, who would get an even worse starting position than Puck. Right now the 3 dutch riders who contribute to their olympic qualification ranking are Terpstra, Pieterse and Tauber, by this order.

 

[theyoungest]

But she wouldn't need to race U23 to qualify for the Olympics or did she? Or is it because the Netherlands have Tauber and Terpstra as elite riders?

I think Kata Blanka Vas went to Tokyo while being still an U23 rider and the portuguese representative in that Olympics was also an Under 23 rider (and qualified by her position in an U23 World Championships).

I was thinking mainly about Van Empel, who would get an even worse starting position than Puck. Right now the 3 dutch riders who contribute to their olympic qualification ranking are Terpstra, Pieterse and Tauber, by this order.

Puck is going to ride with the elites in MTB. Maybe even in cyclocross, come the Worlds in February.

I've looked up the qualification criteria of the Dutch federation. They are: either top-12 in the MTB worlds 2023, or top-8 in the Euros, or top-8 in a World Cup race. This could be within reach for Puck. Seems almost impossible for Fem, but from what she's said so far I think she will try.

 

[Ricco']

Puck is going to ride with the elites in MTB. Maybe even in cyclocross, come the Worlds in February.

I've looked up the qualification criteria of the Dutch federation. They are: either top-12 in the MTB worlds 2023, or top-8 in the Euros, or top-8 in a World Cup race. This could be within reach for Puck. Seems almost impossible for Fem, but from what she's said so far I think she will try.

What's the tie-breaker in case more than 2 riders achieve that goals?

Anne Tauber has had a couple of bad years where she didn't looked like the rider she was in the beginning of 2019 when she was challenging Kate Courtney for the wins, but I wouldn't say that she is incapable of reaching one of that milestones. If, let's say, both her and Terpstra reach the top-12 in next year worlds while Pieterse, for instance, only reaches the top-8 in Euros, are the Worlds result prevalent or will they go by UCI ranking?

 

[Axel Hangleck]

If a rider chooses to jump from U23 to Elite in cross, does it need to also race as an Elite in MTB, for example?

Alvarado won CX Elite World Champs in 2020; then rode in U23 MTB World Cups in Nove Mesto, and the U23 Worlds at Leogang......So unless it's changed, then no.

Also, Laura Stigger has been racing in the Elite World Cup for 3 seasons, yet has still raced U23 Worlds; whereas Mitterwallner raced the Elites, and jumped up to the Elites in the Worlds.

 

[Ricco']

Alvarado won CX Elite World Champs in 2020; then rode in U23 MTB World Cups in Nove Mesto, and the U23 Worlds at Leogang......So unless it's changed, then no.

Also, Laura Stigger has been racing in the Elite World Cup for 3 seasons, yet has still raced U23 Worlds; whereas Mitterwallner raced the Elites, and jumped up to the Elites in the Worlds.

Yes, good catch about Stigger. In MTB only the top-3 or top-5 in the previous year World Cups can choose to ride the Elite World Cup next season, afaik, while being forced to still race in their category in Worlds, as far as I remember.

Mitterwallner must have received a special dispensation, because I'm fairly sure the year before Loana Lecomte would be forced to ride in the U23 worlds while having won the 2021 Elite World Cup.

 

[theyoungest]

What's the tie-breaker in case more than 2 riders achieve that goals?

Anne Tauber has had a couple of bad years where she didn't looked like the rider she was in the beginning of 2019 when she was challenging Kate Courtney for the wins, but I wouldn't say that she is incapable of reaching one of that milestones. If, let's say, both her and Terpstra reach the top-12 in next year worlds while Pieterse, for instance, only reaches the top-8 in Euros, are the Worlds result prevalent or will they go by UCI ranking?

I was wondering about that as well, and there are bound to be some very unhappy riders coming out of this. Imagine you're Anne Tauber, you're a world class MTB rider and suddenly a youngster snatches your Olympic ticket which you worked for and feel you deserve.

Usually the Dutch federation goes for the one that has the most chance of getting a result. Of course that's very subjective, but I'm guessing that's how it will go.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Yes, good catch about Stigger. In MTB only the top-3 or top-5 in the previous year World Cups can choose to ride the Elite World Cup next season, afaik, while being forced to still race in their category in Worlds, as far as I remember.

Mitterwallner must have received a special dispensation, because I'm fairly sure the year before Loana Lecomte would be forced to ride in the U23 worlds while having won the 2021 Elite World Cup.

Yes, Lecomte was down to ride the U23 race as defending champion, even though she was leading the World Cup with 4 XCO Elite wins. And had he ridden the 2021 Worlds, Pidcock would have needed dispensation to ride Elites, as he did for CX Worlds in 2020.

And you're correct about qualifying to race Elites; Pieterse's 2nd place at the U23 Worlds got her the points to race as Elite in the 2023 World Cup; whether she races Elites at the Worlds is another matter.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I was wondering about that as well, and there are bound to be some very unhappy riders coming out of this. Imagine you're Anne Tauber, you're a world class MTB rider and suddenly a youngster snatches your Olympic ticket which you worked for and feel you deserve.

Usually the Dutch federation goes for the one that has the most chance of getting a result. Of course that's very subjective, but I'm guessing that's how it will go.

I'm afraid that is sport; it's a case of Tough! If a youngster has better results in the qualifying period, then they deserve to go. A couple of years ago I thought Alvarado would be the next best after the two Annes; however since then Puck has overtaken her, and Fem could as well. Terpstra will likely be the first choice, but after that, pick one from three.

From next year, the U23 World Cups will have Short Track, that will suit Fem; get points and a decent starting position for the XCO race. Regular podiums are possible, especially if Burquier moves to the Elites as well as Pieterse.

 

[theyoungest]

I'm afraid that is sport; it's a case of Tough! If a youngster has better results in the qualifying period, then they deserve to go. A couple of years ago I thought Alvarado would be the next best after the two Annes; however since then Puck has overtaken her, and Fem could as well. Terpstra will likely be the first choice, but after that, pick one from three.

From next year, the U23 World Cups will have Short Track, that will suit Fem; get points and a decent starting position for the XCO race. Regular podiums are possible, especially if Burquier moves to the Elites as well as Pieterse.

The Dutch qualification criteria don't say anything about U23 races though. I think they're only looking at the elites. Which makes sense, of course. The U23 races could be a way for Van Empel to move up on the UCI ranks, which will also benefit her in the elites. Pieterse has done the same.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

I was wondering about that as well, and there are bound to be some very unhappy riders coming out of this. Imagine you're Anne Tauber, you're a world class MTB rider and suddenly a youngster snatches your Olympic ticket which you worked for and feel you deserve.

Usually the Dutch federation goes for the one that has the most chance of getting a result. Of course that's very subjective, but I'm guessing that's how it will go.

Personally I'd go for the one with the most chance of getting a result. If that shows over the qualification period that it's a younger rider like Pieterse then you should go with that.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

The Dutch qualification criteria don't say anything about U23 races though. I think they're only looking at the elites. Which makes sense, of course. The U23 races could be a way for Van Empel to move up on the UCI ranks, which will also benefit her in the elites. Pieterse has done the same.

Yes, that's what I meant; a year in U23 gaining good points, which is what she is capable of; and if possible 2024 as an Elite - a big ask, but we know the talent is there.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

The Dutch qualification criteria don't say anything about U23 races though. I think they're only looking at the elites. Which makes sense, of course. The U23 races could be a way for Van Empel to move up on the UCI ranks, which will also benefit her in the elites. Pieterse has done the same.

How much XC is van Empel going to do though. How much is Jumbo Visma going to allow/want her to do. And does she even want to ride the Olympics in Paris. Her road focus wasn't that much this year (apart from not being in a position to do so due to the team) and she only did 2 world cups and a handful of other uci races in BeNe as well as the u23 Euros

 

[theyoungest]

How much XC is van Empel going to do though. How much is Jumbo Visma going to allow/want her to do. And does she even want to ride the Olympics in Paris. Her road focus wasn't that much this year (apart from not being in a position to do so due to the team) and she only did 2 world cups and a handful of other uci races in BeNe as well as the u23 Euros

She said her road season will start in June. This could have been wrongly quoted by a journalist, but in May there's two MTB world cups, one of which is in Valkenburg, the Netherlands. I'm just assuming that this is what she will be focusing on. Because she mentions the mountainbike a lot, way more than the road.

As for Jumbo, they also signed Milan Vader who was supposed to do a 50/50 MTB/road program. And one of their trainers is the former national MTB coach of the Netherlands, Tim Heemskerk. So there is some MTB interest there.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

She said her road season will start in June. This could have been wrongly quoted by a journalist, but in May there's two MTB world cups, one of which is in Valkenburg, the Netherlands. I'm just assuming that this is what she will be focusing on. Because she mentions the mountainbike a lot, way more than the road.

As for Jumbo, they also signed Milan Vader who was supposed to do a 50/50 MTB/road program. And one of their trainers is the former national MTB coach of the Netherlands, Tim Heemskerk. So there is some MTB interest there.

Ah ok. Well I hope they are more committed to XC than they were before or for CX with the van Dijke's and Teunissen.

I wonder with Teunissen moving to Intermarche whether he'll do any more cx as they've obviously got the Tormans setup and we've seen others like Meurisse ride some.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Fem is not a road rider though. She does have the characteristics for it, but she's hardly done any road races so far. It seems she first wants to focus on the MTB next year, to try to get to the Paris Olympics (which would be a tall order, I think there's just two spots available and apart from Puck there's also Anne Terpstra she'll have to contend with).

The issues she's had with Pauwels Sauzen have also meant she hasn't ridden much on the road yet. It sounded like she wanted to ride more on the road this year, but she was only able to ride races for the national team.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

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[theyoungest]

The issues she's had with Pauwels Sauzen have also meant she hasn't ridden much on the road yet. It sounded like she wanted to ride more on the road this year, but she was only able to ride races for the national team.

Certainly, it was one of the reasons to switch to Jumbo, and I think if you put her in a race like Strade Bianche now, she'd already be quite good. If you see how well Van Anrooij and Persico rode there, who's to say she can't do the same. But unlike those two, she has hardly any experience on the road. So you can't really call her a road rider even if she seems built for it.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Certainly, it was one of the reasons to switch to Jumbo, and I think if you put her in a race like Strade Bianche now, she'd already be quite good. If you see how well Van Anrooij and Persico rode there, who's to say she can't do the same. But unlike those two, she has hardly any experience on the road. So you can't really call her a road rider even if she seems built for it.

So Van Empel is leaving Pauwel for Jumbo Wisma next year? You know what road races she will be doing?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Certainly, it was one of the reasons to switch to Jumbo, and I think if you put her in a race like Strade Bianche now, she'd already be quite good. If you see how well Van Anrooij and Persico rode there, who's to say she can't do the same. But unlike those two, she has hardly any experience on the road. So you can't really call her a road rider even if she seems built for it.

I'm not arguing she is a road rider, I just wanted to add that here lack of road experienec wasn't due to a lack of interest, which seems to be the case for Pieterse.

But we've obviously seen before with MTB and CX riders that experience doesn't always matter that much if the talent is there.

 

[theyoungest]

So Van Empel is leaving Pauwel for Jumbo Wisma next year? You know what road races she will be doing?

No idea. If it's true that her road season starts in June she won't do the spring classics. I guess we'll know soon enough, they have a team presentation coming up in two weeks, I think.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I'm not arguing she is a road rider, I just wanted to add that here lack of road experience wasn't due to a lack of interest, which seems to be the case for Pieterse.

I've always got the impression Puck isn't really interested in doing much road; the team have often called her 'our off-road queen'. Reminds me of another U23 CX World champion who I think has done one road race; and isn't interested at all.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

I've always got the impression Puck isn't really interested in doing much road; the team have often called her 'our off-road queen'. Reminds me of another U23 CX World champion who I think has done one road race; and isn't interested at all.

Richards? And she's theoretically coming back to do 3 or 4 races around the Kerstperiode I guess following her training camp in Cyprus.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

This isn't great:
https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/f...rugkeer-oude-blessure-ik-voelde-de-pijn-weer/

 

[theyoungest]

This isn't great:
https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/f...rugkeer-oude-blessure-ik-voelde-de-pijn-weer/

She says she feared the artery problems had returned, but it turns out they didn't... so there's bad news and good news. I think the current level of Puck and Fem especially is so high that they destroy everyone straight from the start. Not just PFP. But it maybe forces her to push a little harder than she's currently capable of, resulting in some physical issues.

I don't really get what she's saying about riding two good closing laps though. She lost more than 2 minutes on the leaders in those two laps alone.