Race Thread

[Mick Dundee]

Nys jumping barriers is a combination of technical skill and the ability to 'muscle' a bike around. I'm not trying to offend the best women racers in the world but compare apples with apples.
p.s. Lars Van Der Har has the muscle but seems to lack that particular ability.... oddly enough.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

I missed the start whys MvdP so far behind?

Live https://nlive.club/stream/1/38965.html

In previous years, the world cups have been gridded on uci points standings which roll over year round (e.g despite being suspended for her misdemaenours Denise Betsema was still top of the womens rankings until a couple of weeks ago). Therefore if a rider like Jeremy Powers (a couple of years ago) dominated the american scene, he would get loads of points and get a very high gridding, similar to someone who has done every DVV and Superprestige and come in the top 3. From this season, the UCI changed it so the first round was based on last year's world cup ranking, and then the second round onwards is gridded based on this year's standings. Therefore, those who missed the american rounds could have been at a real disadvantage and be placed on probably 3rd row back as the top riders will still get gridded due to their UCI ranking being high.

Are (some of) the riders wearing some sort of bike computer - for lack of a better word - on their arms? Would make sense; they change bikes quite often, and doesn't seem to have to time to even move a regular bike computer from one bike to another. However, they don't change arms.

Alot of riders wear a gps watch on their wrist to record the race and to look at how far their in the race and possibly what their heart rate is if they ride with heart rate

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nys jumping barriers is a combination of technical skill and the ability to 'muscle' a bike around. I'm not trying to offend the best women racers in the world but compare apples with apples.
p.s. Lars Van Der Har has the muscle but seems to lack that particular ability.... oddly enough.

Nys (and his dad, Mathieu, Meeusen...) are at one end of the spectrum. This was an UPHILL jump, and yet he flew over it. There are plenty of barriers that are placed in much easier conditions, yet even then, the women still don't jump over them. Judging by comments from Groenendael, it seems only now the junior women have started to actually train on jumping barriers (and successfully), so it has little to do with physical prowess, but with intend and with training.

Nys jr has been jumping barriers since he was 12. Do you want to tell me he had more physical ability when he was 12, than Vos, Worst, Brandt etc?

 

[Mick Dundee]

Watching Thibo Nys jump over the barriers is actually a bit of an embarrassment for the women. Today the barriers are not easy (uphill) but plenty of other races they are very easy and still none of the women try to jump over them. When you see Nys jump today, you realize there is still a huge gap with even the best women purely on a technical basis.

Just looked back at what you said... you said an embarrassment to women.. I think that a bit harsh tbh. Disagree with you that any of the barriers 'are easy' on the race calender, hence Lars VDH would be flying over them too. Yesterday's barriers uphill were extremely difficult to get right which required a combination of explosive power to get the speed into the first jump and then more power, skill to jump the second. Only a handful of the male elite could manage it and having watched the women's elite race too, none of them could've carried enough speed to execute that Uphill barrier section successfully. No shame in that.
Nys jr is an Exceptional case, taught by his dad, both are able to combine all the necessary qualities to jump these type of barriers. My query is why the ex gymnast with significant core strength and Sweeck, couldn't jump the uphill section yesterday, particularly when it offered precious seconds advantage over others?

 

[Mavic]

From what I can remember, van der Haar had a bad crash one time in a race while attempting to jump over a barrier. Since then, he has never really had the confidence to jump over barriers anymore. He trained a lot on it but sparingly dared to try it in a race. I think it's definitely a psychological issue over a physical one.

Van Aert also avoided jumping barriers for some time until he got the confidence and now I think he jumps over most of them, albeit not as smooth as Mathieu and co. Meeusen is definitely the master jumper.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Just looked back at what you said... you said an embarrassment to women.. I think that a bit harsh tbh. Disagree with you that any of the barriers 'are easy' on the race calender, hence Lars VDH would be flying over them too. Yesterday's barriers uphill were extremely difficult to get right which required a combination of explosive power to get the speed into the first jump and then more power, skill to jump the second. Only a handful of the male elite could manage it and having watched the women's elite race too, none of them could've carried enough speed to execute that Uphill barrier section successfully. No shame in that.
Nys jr is an Exceptional case, taught by his dad, both are able to combine all the necessary qualities to jump these type of barriers. My query is why the ex gymnast with significant core strength and Sweeck, couldn't jump the uphill section yesterday, particularly when it offered precious seconds advantage over others?

You quite clearly missed the point. When you see how a 17 year old jumps over extremely difficult barriers with ease, it is an embarrassment to women, that NONE of them even TRY to jump over ANY other barrier in ANY race on the calendar. I wasn't expecting women to necessarily jump yesterday's barriers (which i made clear, twice).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Mathieu looks a lot more at ease today.

 

[Mavic]

Yikes. That is starting to look like the invincible Mathieu. I had hoped it would have taken him a bit longer to be in this apparent shape. He’s just too good.

 

[tobydawq]

Yikes. That is starting to look like the invincible Mathieu. I had hoped it would have taken him a bit longer to be in this apparent shape. He’s just too good.

Well, Iserbyt clearly has problems when the race days are getting consecutive, so there might still be some challenges coming from him.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Van der Poel superb in Flandriencross Hamme victory

Sweeck best of the rest, Merlier third

www.cyclingnews.com

current's photo is fake news - there was no one chasing to be seen today.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Actually Sweeck was at 2-5 seconds for 3/4th of the race. He only collapsed at the end

 

[Mavic]

Actually Sweeck was at 2-5 seconds for 3/4th of the race. He only collapsed at the end

That was some collapse, losing 40(?) seconds at the end.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah in the last 2,5 laps. At some point he just couldn't keep it up. He was really close for a long while

Another observation. This is the 2nd time Mathieu was much better at the 2nd day in a row then on just the first day.

 

[Mavic]

Yeah in the last 2,5 laps. At some point he just couldn't keep it up. He was really close for a long while

Another observation. This is the 2nd time Mathieu was much better at the 2nd day in a row then on just the first day.

The exact opposite is true for Iserbyt, it seems.

 

[glassmoon]

Yeah in the last 2,5 laps. At some point he just couldn't keep it up. He was really close for a long while

Another observation. This is the 2nd time Mathieu was much better at the 2nd day in a row then on just the first day.

well, his CX season has just started basically (after a post RR season break)

 

[Mick Dundee]

You quite clearly missed the point. When you see how a 17 year old jumps over extremely difficult barriers with ease, it is an embarrassment to women, that NONE of them even TRY to jump over ANY other barrier in ANY race on the calendar. I wasn't expecting women to necessarily jump yesterday's barriers (which i made clear, twice).

No, I don’t believe I missed your point at all. I just disagreed with your statement and let it be known... it’s the Aussie in me. You’re coming across as having difficulty in accepting someone else’s opinion and you don’t need to use CAPITALS to exaggerate your point. I had a CEO who used to do that and it was extremely annoying too.

You’ve clearly missed my point so I will expand on it. Especially as most think I have a problem with women.

In my opinion, Yes there is a big gap between the best Women Elite riders and Male riders, even some 17 year old Male riders but it shouldn’t be considered an embarrassment or deficiency on a technical level. Should Elite Women share the same course as the Men – yes. Should Elite Women be riding hour long races like the Elite men - absolutely. Should Elite Women be paid the same as the Elite Men – Yes, why not? Should it be expected that Elite Women compete against the Elite Men and lap the Same course at the same pace, jumping the same jumps, ascending the Same hills at the Same rate, bunny hopping massive ditches and when they don’t, consider them an embarrassment – no, I don’t live in cloud cuckoo land. Now before you come flying back at me and say you didn’t imply that. My point is that the Men have a distinct advantage over Women in certain areas that require Power, muscling a 7 kilo bike around and over obstacles as well as Technical skill and the ability to recover from it in an instant. Comparing their attributes on a course that is tailored to challenge the likes MVDP is nonsensical.

I did however, notice one Female Elite rider, in the top 20 position, jumped the ‘easier’ barriers today. So why didn’t Worst, Sanne Cant or Alvarado jump them? I don’t know. Maybe it was because that even though the barriers were nothing like as difficult as the uphill ones yesterday, they didn’t feel it necessary to take a risk or exert that precious energy of trying to bunny-hop them and potentially face plant. If it was just one barrier, I’d imagine most of the Women riders would have a bash at it. But it’s the combination of 2 barriers in quick succession that make all the difference in my opinion.

 

[Mick Dundee]

Well, Iserbyt clearly has problems when the race days are getting consecutive, so there might still be some challenges coming from him.

He's very young but handling the step up to Elites far better than PIdcock at present. Strange considering Pidcock was pasting him less then 9 months ago ?

 

[Cance > TheRest]

It’s tough to gauge where Mathieu stands after today’s race due to the recent passing of his grandfather.

With that being said, he still rode an incredible race having started in the 3rd row and not managing to get to the front early on.

As a result he had to fight his way back to the front on two separate occasions after he had to switch bikes when he first made contact with the trio.

What a race, kudos to Iserbyt for leaving it all on the field again today. The day will surely come. If not this season then the next. He’s younger than Mathieu so his engine is still developing.

Let’s hope for more races like this.

Yeah, was a very good race.

But it's a problem for Iserbyt that MvdP is so much better technically, because he has no other area where he is better than MvdP. He might be, physically, on the same level as MvdP, all else equal, but he is forced to spend extra reserves because of inferior technique.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah, was a very good race.

But it's a problem for Iserbyt that MvdP is so much better technically, because he has no other area where he is better than MvdP. He might be, physically, on the same level as MvdP, all else equal, but he is forced to spend extra reserves because of inferior technique.

Iserbyt is far from a chump technically. Obviously Mathieu is better, but he's better than basically everyone, except maybe Meeusen (and in the not so distant future i can see Nys jr outdoing him in that regard). Even when van Aert was on the same level as Mathieu, he couldn't beat him and needed to be clearly better physically, in order to do so. Iserbyt is a far above average CX bikehandler, but simply not as good as Mathieu, neither does he have the raw power of van Aert. But he's a nicely balanced CX rider. Far above average in every regard, but clearly that doesn't mean you can beat van der Poel.

He's very young but handling the step up to Elites far better than PIdcock at present. Strange considering Pidcock was pasting him less then 9 months ago ?

Pidcock won the WC, but that doesn't mean he surpassed Iserbyt then and there. Pidcock did get a couple of nice results (i remember a battle for 2nd between him and Aerts) late in the season but he's still nearly 2 years younger than Iserbyt. So, i don't think it's strange that Iserbyt is handling the transition better, though i was surprised as well to see him step up like he did. There was always going to be a point where Iserbyt was going to take a next step on a physical level, and chances were that that would happen before it happened for Pidcock. Both are still developing riders and it shouldn't be forgotten that Iserbyt himself was one of the most talented CX riders in his age bracket. I don't think in the 3-4 years between him and WvA/MvdP, there was another rider of his caliber. I do expect Pidcock to take a similar step as Iserbyt maybe later in the season, or somewhere next season. When that happens, chances are he'll surpass Iserbyt indefinitely, but it still needs to play out. At the moment, i'm more curious to see what Pidcock can do on the road. He won some interesting races last year, including a stage race with plenty of climbing. As a CX rider, time will tell if he was overhyped when he was still a junior.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I really miss Van Aert. Mathieu is not really getting challenged at all. He can afford to take a bad start, take his time, and ride away whenever he wants.

Van Aert can at least push him a lot more. I don't think he will get much out of the cross season with him being so much better than the others. He's not getting pushed, so he won't improve over the winter.

 

[tobydawq]

I agree to a certain degree but last Saturday he most definitely was challenged, and it looked like Iserbyt spared himself a lot today to be ready for tomorrow. Maybe Sweeck did the same thing.

And last season Van Aert didn't push van der Poel much, either.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

but he went for it everywhere. I don't like riders taking 'off'days so they can challenge somewhere else. It's cheap.

 

[tobydawq]

but he went for it everywhere. I don't like riders taking 'off'days so they can challenge somewhere else. It's cheap.

It's also very sensible...

 

[Mavic]

It's also very sensible...

Is it though? Iserbyt took a day off on a course that suits him much better than tomorrow’s on the off chance Mathieu will feel today’s efforts enough for him to have a chance at beating him? Doesn’t sound very sensible to me.

Moreover, Mathieu is known (historically) for having a better second day than the first. The opposite is true for Iserbyt. If this is true again tomorrow than it further refutes the whole sensible claim.

By this logic, Iserbyt should have tried today, which ought to be Mathieu’s “lesser” day on a course that suits him more. This is, of course, going by his own claim that beating Mathieu is one of his goals this season.

Oh well, the only argument going for Iserbyt and the rest is that tomorrow’s race is a more important one. This is the only reason a case can be made for taking an off day today and making sure they are top fit for tomorrow.

As I have mentioned several times before I really hope I am wrong and Iserbyt and co. really give Mathieu a proper battle where the best man wins, cause that’s what most of us want to see. Unfortunately Mathieu has been too good up to this point, save for some decent-ish “battles” with Iserbyt and the Belgian contingent.

I honestly expect Sweeck more than Iserbyt tomorrow as the former has better technique in the sand than the latter. Though Iserbyt is not to be underestimated this season. Let’s see how it unfolds.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

but he went for it everywhere. I don't like riders taking 'off'days so they can challenge somewhere else. It's cheap.

That's a bit unfair though. I'm quite liking Iserbyt and he's been great fun to watch so far, and even if he's one of the biggest talents together with Pidcock, who's name doesn't start with "van", he's still not in the same league (as the "vans"). He (and everybody else) knows this, so he needs to adapt in order to stand a chance.

For Wout (and Mathieu obviously) it's easy to go all out everytime, because they both have won everything there is to win. Worldchampionship, World Cup, Superprestige... they've got nothing left to prove. A win more or less, doesn't really matter, just go for it and have fun. But those other 50 guys, they really want to win. Beating Mathieu, is a goal in itself and worth more than winning 5 races in his absence.