Race Thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nope... it's what Logic already said, he wins 50 seconds in race on technique alone.. And in sand crosses this is almost easier. He can afford to ride just pace alone, didn't even need an acceleration to get away. The rest doesn't have the skills to go as fast in those sand downhills as he does, or even ride the Albert duin which only he, Nys and Albert managed...

I wish we had seen peak Nys in the same era as peak VDP, that would be interesting. We only saw just below his top Nys vs upcoming VDP/Van Aert.

Well, as a kid i was a huge Nys fan (he's two or three years older than me and when i was 16-17 i enjoyed watching him kick the old guys their asses with style on technique alone), and i think i have a good idea of how good/strong he was. Nys was very strong physically, but imho, not as strong as van Aert and van der Poel. Albert would probably have come closer in that regard. But Albert, not unlike van Aert, wasn't the best technically (except for sand crosses). Basically, Mathieu is more or less the same level as Nys technically, and more or less the same level as van Aert physically. Pretty much best of both worlds. I still think as a raw powerhouse van Aert still edges out van der Poel, but only when he's 100% and even then the difference is nothing compared to the gap in skill. Van Aert did improve his skills compared to 4 years ago, but Mathieu grew stronger at the same time.

Nys was a graciously balanced CX rider, he was the best because he was good at everything and the best in a few things. But he was still "human". An off-day, mental stress, not quite as good in the sand as Albert, and not quite as physically gifted either... he could be beaten. It's sad that i now find myself actually hoping someone will beat Mathieu, just to make it interesting. Nys also had seasons where he won 30 races, or won by 2 minutes, but he was never "untouchable" every race he started.

You keep saying he's still off last year but Im not so sure. I actually think yesterday was like his better crosses last year. He also says so himself.

Hmm. Maybe. Well, if he says so. I still think in two weeks we'll say "ok, he wasn't 100% back then". lol

 

[RedheadDane]

We only saw just below his top Nys vs upcoming VDP/Van Aert.

Maybe in a few years we'll see below their tops VDP/Van Aert vs upcoming Nys.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I am sorry, if this is the wrong thread to pose this question, but does anybody know any good sites that have statistics on CX, like a historical list of athletes with most race wins divided into race series etc.?

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Great chase back from VDP and Merlier this weekend.

I am sorry, if this is the wrong thread to pose this question, but does anybody know any good sites that have statistics on CX, like a historical list of athletes with most race wins divided into race series etc.?

The closest is probaly Cyclocross 24. It's quite similar to something like Procyclingstats for the road.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So... Marco Brenner also keeping himself busy during the winter. I had no idea.

1	NYS Thibau	17		43:04
2	HUYBS Ward	17		0:02
3	BELMANS Lennert	17		0:03
4	VERSTRYNGE Emiel	17		''
5	MICHELS Jente	16		''
6	BRENNER Marco	17		0:30

 

[the delgados]

Just a couple quick questions:
Why did MVDP recently start in the second row?
Also, does anyone have an idea about the wage structure in cyclo-cross-- i.e. How much do the top riders make compared to pack fill?
Those who start and finish at the back get zero tv coverage, so it's hard to imagine any one of them earning anything near riders like MVDP.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

-Because a new rule this year states the start order in world cups is defined by world cup standings. MvdP missed the first 3 WB races so he has very little points
-Top riders make much more, both in money they get to show up, and money they earn for winning. CX at the back are like semi pro's. The top in cx make near a million, VDP even more. In the back they are happy with a below average/normal income

 

[RedheadDane]

It's all part of a conspiracy to give everyone else a fighting chance against VDP.
It's… not exactly working.

How were they ordered before anyway? Just... popularity? Whoever gets there first?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

No, first they had the world ranking that decided start order. Which is something else entirely, as it compasses all crosses last 12 months.

Now only the world cup ranking, which is a sub-ranking of only World Cup category races, and only concerns the current season.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

VanDerPoel not a happy bunny today?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Van Aert will make his comeback on december 27th. Not expected to be competitive this season.

 

[KZD]

VanDerPoel not a happy bunny today?

He was just warming up

 

[the delgados]

-Because a new rule this year states the start order in world cups is defined by world cup standings. MvdP missed the first 3 WB races so he has very little points
-Top riders make much more, both in money they get to show up, and money they earn for winning. CX at the back are like semi pro's. The top in cx make near a million, VDP even more. In the back they are happy with a below average/normal income

Thanks. So top level CX is a two or three tier sport. No wonder the fans position themselves where they can get multiple vantage points of the leaders around the course while ignoring everyone below the top ten. It's amazing the amount of money top level riders make compared to their opponents. Resources abound, no doubt--i.e. support staff, top level bikes, etc. I now understand why a person who is very familiar with the sport said he lacked interest and now finds the sport boring to watch. Look at MVDP's facial expression at the end of his most recent win. Guy looked bored.

 

[Bolder]

I think there's an opportunity for CX to broaden its appeal -- and attract deeper fields -- by figuring out how to hitch a ride onto the gravel racing scene. There's natural crossover, equipment wise, at least. But because of the weather, limited geographic appeal and timing, CX will probably remain a Dutch/Belgian speciality sport. You aren't going to find many road pros willing to forgo their off-season in, say, southern Italy or Nice to slog it out in some municipal park in Flanders.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well the thing they are trying with the new world cup next year, is to have way more crosses outside Belgium and make them important in uci ranking / points.

But it just feels forced, I don't think they are ready for that

 

[tobydawq]

Just when you thought he would gift a race to his brother or his teammate...

 

[Mavic]

Just when you thought he would gift a race to his brother or his teammate...

Why would you think that? Maybe if David were stronger and they could have stayed away from Aerts it would have been a more realistic scenario.

He helped both his brother and teammate as much as he could to a rare podium, surely that should suffice as far as favors go.

 

[tobydawq]

Why would you think that? Maybe if David were stronger and they could have stayed away from Aerts it would have been a more realistic scenario.

He helped both his brother and teammate as much as he could to a rare podium, surely that should suffice as far as favors go.

Because he kept waiting for David and at one point it looked like they had distanced the others for good but then David suddenly lost all his energy.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I think there's an opportunity for CX to broaden its appeal -- and attract deeper fields -- by figuring out how to hitch a ride onto the gravel racing scene. There's natural crossover, equipment wise, at least. But because of the weather, limited geographic appeal and timing, CX will probably remain a Dutch/Belgian speciality sport. You aren't going to find many road pros willing to forgo their off-season in, say, southern Italy or Nice to slog it out in some municipal park in Flanders.

It's an interesting idea. The GravelCross World Cup......a mix of 1 and 2 day events made up of stages, like in Rallying.....(Tongue in cheek)

And funnily enough, recently whilst watching one of the races, it struck me that CX only has 1 format. Take MTB XC for example; there is Marathon, Olympic, Short Track plus Eliminator. And the occasional MTB Stage race.

But, in all honesty, I'm not sure there is any chance of changes/ additions to the sport. What it needs is for someone outside Flanders to get a grip of it. A pity Flanders Classics got the rights to the World Cup and not an international company.

 

[Bolder]

XC skiing has had some success with things like short sprints. I find them more compelling as a casual Tv viewer than the non mass start events.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's an interesting idea. The GravelCross World Cup......a mix of 1 and 2 day events made up of stages, like in Rallying.....(Tongue in cheek)

And funnily enough, recently whilst watching one of the races, it struck me that CX only has 1 format. Take MTB XC for example; there is Marathon, Olympic, Short Track plus Eliminator. And the occasional MTB Stage race.

But, in all honesty, I'm not sure there is any chance of changes/ additions to the sport. What it needs is for someone outside Flanders to get a grip of it. A pity Flanders Classics got the rights to the World Cup and not an international company.

Flanders Classics knows they need to broaden their horizons with CX for it to remain relevant. It's an organization with a lot of know-how and they'll want to do this right. They also have a lot of resources, so i'm not sure some foreign company that doesn't know the first thing about CX (and likely has less resources and know-how) would be a better fit. I personally don't agree with some of the stuff FC is doing, but at least they will commit to it. They are already planning on branching out the WC all over Europe, so obviously they know what's up.

That doesn't mean it can't coexist with other formats though. There are a lot of classifications, maybe one of those could diversify and organize their races around gravel tracks, instead of trying to compete with a bigger cup classification which is more or less he same thing. It might also function as a gateway towards CX.

As for Bolder's statement, i'm not really on the same page about CX not being able to become an international sport. It was an international sport only a few decades ago. On past pages, Dekker Tifosi and myself posted some links to CX races from the 80s and 90s. There were German, Austrian, Italian, Swiss, Dutch, Belgian, Czech, French... riders in the top 10. I do believe Mountainbike becoming an olympic sport in '96 did have a big influence on CX's demise.

Knowing guys like Sagan, van Aert, Alaphilippe, van der Poel all came from CX... personally i don't think it's a coincidence. And i think CX could benefit from that as well if they play their cards right.

 

[Bolder]

Flanders Classics knows they need to broaden their horizons with CX for it to remain relevant. It's an organization with a lot of know-how and they'll want to do this right. They also have a lot of resources, so i'm not sure some foreign company that doesn't know the first thing about CX (and likely has less resources and know-how) would be a better fit. I personally don't agree with some of the stuff FC is doing, but at least they will commit to it. They are already planning on branching out the WC all over Europe, so obviously they know what's up.

That doesn't mean it can't coexist with other formats though. There are a lot of classifications, maybe one of those could diversify and organize their races around gravel tracks, instead of trying to compete with a bigger cup classification which is more or less he same thing. It might also function as a gateway towards CX.

As for Bolder's statement, i'm not really on the same page about CX not being able to become an international sport. It was an international sport only a few decades ago. On past pages, Dekker Tifosi and myself posted some links to CX races from the 80s and 90s. There were German, Austrian, Italian, Swiss, Dutch, Belgian, Czech, French... riders in the top 10. I do believe Mountainbike becoming an olympic sport in '96 did have a big influence on CX's demise.

Knowing guys like Sagan, van Aert, Alaphilippe, van der Poel all came from CX... personally i don't think it's a coincidence. And i think CX could benefit from that as well if they play their cards right.

Thanks, I didn’t know all that. My cx knowledge, such as it is, only goes back about 15 years. Good point about Mtb. I personally enjoy watching cx, but I think it’s got a lot of untapped potential to broaden its base.

 

[RedheadDane]

Am I evil for hoping that someone will go face first into the mud? Close call for D. Vanthourenhout(sp?)

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Am I evil for hoping that someone will go face first into the mud? Close call for D. Vanthourenhout(sp?)

Judging by his Instagram story, Yorben van Tichelt ended up face first into the mud. He was completely covered head to toe in thick black mud after his practice laps!

Great ride by all the young riders in the top ten of the women's race. Six riders in the top 10 25 years old or younger with Kay and Vas both being under 20 on the podium!

 

[tobydawq]

Very underwhelming race in the men's category when you could have hoped for a bit of a closer race in the absence of the big, bad Dutchman.