Race Thread

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Good you mention Pidcock, at least he is another one that at least tries, even on bad days

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nys jr hitting his strides . Now leading the World Cup with a pretty solid lead. He now has 180 points. Guy in second place has 113 points. Still only a first year junior iirc. He 's got a few perks his father desperately needed, like mental strength.

 

[RedheadDane]

Now, what the *** is A. Yates doing in this race?

 

[glassmoon]

was wondering how's MvP going to move forward on this course but he's already there during the lap 1

 

[RedheadDane]

Yeah, that was impressive.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

MvdP has already said goodbye. Iserbyt looks challenged om the technical sand sections

 

[KZD]

Incredible to see MVDP gaining a lot of positions while running.
No one will catch him now.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The window of opportunity has closed.

Basically, it's all over for the rest of the season. There were two races where he "could" have been beaten, they didn't beat him. Now the ship has sailed. He's not even 100% yet, and there is nobody (currently) in the CX peloton that could beat him.

By the way, the prerace postrace interview with Mathieu and Wout, edition WCC 2012 (i think), was hilarious. Van Aert looked like a 5 year old

 

[Mavic]

Is it though? Iserbyt took a day off on a course that suits him much better than tomorrow’s on the off chance Mathieu will feel today’s efforts enough for him to have a chance at beating him? Doesn’t sound very sensible to me.

Moreover, Mathieu is known (historically) for having a better second day than the first. The opposite is true for Iserbyt. If this is true again tomorrow than it further refutes the whole sensible claim.

By this logic, Iserbyt should have tried today, which ought to be Mathieu’s “lesser” day on a course that suits him more. This is, of course, going by his own claim that beating Mathieu is one of his goals this season.

Oh well, the only argument going for Iserbyt and the rest is that tomorrow’s race is a more important one. This is the only reason a case can be made for taking an off day today and making sure they are top fit for tomorrow.

As I have mentioned several times before I really hope I am wrong and Iserbyt and co. really give Mathieu a proper battle where the best man wins, cause that’s what most of us want to see. Unfortunately Mathieu has been too good up to this point, save for some decent-ish “battles” with Iserbyt and the Belgian contingent.

I honestly expect Sweeck more than Iserbyt tomorrow as the former has better technique in the sand than the latter. Though Iserbyt is not to be underestimated this season. Let’s see how it unfolds.

Pretty much nailed it if I may say so myself. Except I didn’t expect Iserbyt to be this bad today after he took an off day yesterday. Defeats the purpose no? Not quite sensible after all. He has to be sick or will be soon, otherwise I can’t explain it.

Oh well, Mathieu is the absolute king of CX (and other cycling disciplines too if it was physically feasible to do a whole season of each every year).

Oh and also noteworthy is that Mathieu pretty much started at the very back of the peloton after getting held back by a crash early on. What a guy. Seriously. We need top top form Wout back and then maybe we get some excitement back.

 

[tobydawq]

Pretty much nailed it if I may say so myself. Except I didn’t expect Iserbyt to be this bad today after he took an off day yesterday. Defeats the purpose no? Not quite sensible after all. He has to be sick or will be soon, otherwise I can’t explain it.

Alright, could you be a little more smug, please?

I'll give it to you that Iserbyt was crap today as well, so maybe he has been a little sick which could also explain yesterday's performance. I also think that is the most likely scenario, rather than his level having dropped off a cliff since last week.

I didn't know about the routes of yesterday's and today's race, so I don't think it was too strange of me to assume that Iserbyt would lay off the day ahead of a World Cup race (the series he is actually leading) and forfeit a race that isn't part of any of the three series. Especially because the last couple of weeks have shown that he doesn't fare very well the day after a good performance.

 

[Mavic]

Alright, could you be a little more smug, please?

I'll give it to you that Iserbyt was crap today as well, so maybe he has been a little sick which could also explain yesterday's performance. I also think that is the most likely scenario, rather than his level having dropped off a cliff since last week.

I didn't know about the routes of yesterday's and today's race, so I don't think it was too strange of me to assume that Iserbyt would lay off the day ahead of a World Cup race (the series he is actually leading) and forfeit a race that isn't part of any of the three series. Especially because the last couple of weeks have shown that he doesn't fare very well the day after a good performance.

It’s all in jest. I, on the other hand, did know all of those details which is why I could make an educated guess.

Anyway, all we can hope for now is that Van Aert comes back in tip top shape so we can (hopefully) have the battles we so wish to see. Might take him a few races too, of course, much like Mathieu.

 

[tobydawq]

It’s all in jest. I, on the other hand, did know all of those details which is why I could make an educated guess.

Anyway, all we can hope for now is that Van Aert comes back in tip top shape so we can (hopefully) have the battles we so wish to see. Might take him a few races too, of course, much like Mathieu.

Isn't it a bit unrealistic to expect Van Aert reach his top level this winter?

 

[glassmoon]

Isn't it a bit unrealistic to expect Van Aert reach his top level this winter?

completely unrealistic

 

[Mavic]

Isn't it a bit unrealistic to expect Van Aert reach his top level this winter?

Probably, but much like Mathieu they are both freaks of nature so who knows. I’m just desperate for some excitement and know that in this form only a top top Wout could give him some proper competition. Haven’t seen that version of Wout in CX in a long time though. Most likely cause he’s more geared towards the road now. Mathieu is really good all the time though, his base level is enough to beat the whole CX field.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well... Mathieu came back from a well deserved late break.
Wout is coming back from a possibly career ending injury and hasn't raced for 6 months (maybe 8 by the time he starts to race).

It's not exactly a similar situation.

 

[Mavic]

Well... Mathieu came back from a well deserved late break.
Wout is coming back from a possibly career ending injury and hasn't raced for 6 months (maybe 8 by the time he starts to race).

It's not exactly a similar situation.

Can’t deny that fact. I never said it was the same situation though. Last year was the same scenario. Mathieu dominated last year in a similar fashion while the reasoning for a “lesser” Wout was that his training schedule was geared towards the road. He didn’t come back from a possible career ending injury then.

All I’m saying is that Mathieu manages to be in really good shape throughout the whole year while others need to take their time getting there.

This, of course, can be explained, as Mathieu himself has pointed out that he doesn’t like to take too many rest days and likes to keep in shape so it doesn’t have to take long for him to be in top shape.

Nothing wrong with others taking a different approach, just stating facts.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Even Wout himself doesn't know if he can even reach his former level with the crash and injury he had. They doctors in France nearly ended his career there.

That being said, I'm not even sure top top Van Aert could beat last years VdP or todays VDP (which seemed very much like last years VDP). Don't forget VDP got physically stronger a lot in the last 2 years and Van Aert had that same growth earlier, if you ask me..
But, he could make it a lot more difficult than the rest of the field.

 

[KZD]

Nice to see David Van der Poel in 12th place, the best I've seen him doing in a long time.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I was very impressed with Merlier's ride today. Definitely would have contended for 2nd/3rd without that freak crash in the beginning

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I was very impressed with Merlier's ride today. Definitely would have contended for 2nd/3rd without that freak crash in the beginning

Second best guy in the race, imho. He started dead last and with 20 or so seconds behind the next guy when first hitting the sand. Still he managed top 10 and was only 50 seconds behind Mathieu halfway the race.

Even Wout himself doesn't know if he can even reach his former level with the crash and injury he had. They doctors in France nearly ended his career there.

That being said, I'm not even sure top top Van Aert could beat last years VdP or todays VDP (which seemed very much like last years VDP). Don't forget VDP got physically stronger a lot in the last 2 years and Van Aert had that same growth earlier, if you ask me..
But, he could make it a lot more difficult than the rest of the field.

I'm 100% convinced today's MvdP wasn't even top MvdP yet and not the same as last year (he would have won by 2 minutes even after chasing for a lap), and as such, i'm quite confident a top WvA would have been able to beat him (quite sure he would have). Merlier's performance today kind of further convinces me of that.

And i'm also inclined to believe a top WvA could still beat a top MvdP from time to time... on the "right" course. Mathieu simply has superior technique, and on a course where you can really benefit from that... there is nobody that can beat him. That's simply how it is. Every barrier, every tight hairpin, off camber section... those are 0.5 -2 seconds every time, 10 obstacles per lap, easily 5 seconds per lap if not more, for ten laps, that's a "free" 50 seconds per race that a guy with "ok" bikehandling has to make up for purely on power compared to someone with superior bikehandling. That's the biggest problem. You can't keep closing those gaps and not suffer.

But what you said is also right. Wout was a skinny little twerp when he was 12-16. He then exploded physically, grew into a hunk of an athlete in a short time. Mathieu had a much more "gradual" growth. I'm quite sure Wout leapfrogged Mathieu around 2013 and he was indeed the better athlete (physically) for a while. Mathieu matured a bit later and now on a purely physical level i wouldn't want to bet against either of them. But Mathieu is simply the (far) better bike handler. All things equal, those 50 or so seconds per race, are simply the difference we have been seeing the last 2 seasons i think. I'm also still sure we didn't see a top WvA the past two years (except for maybe the 2018 WCC). I'd be interested to compare van Aert's lap times of 2015/2016 to those of 2017/2018. I wish we could find some data on that. On average, i can't imagine the past two years being of the same level. We can only hope he can make a full recovery from his injury. He's sorely missed in the field, and he was a joy to watch on the road as well.

But, i think now a lot of people are starting to appreciate van Aert. Because when he's not there, the victories of Mathieu just don't feel the same. I'm sure Mathieu feels the same way.

 

[Mavic]

Second best guy in the race, imho. He started dead last and with 20 or so seconds behind the next guy when first hitting the sand. Still he managed top 10 and was only 50 seconds behind Mathieu halfway the race.


I'm 100% convinced today's MvdP wasn't even top MvdP yet and not the same as last year (he would have won by 2 minutes even after chasing for a lap), and as such, i'm quite confident a top WvA would have been able to beat him (quite sure he would have). Merlier's performance today kind of further convinces me of that.

And i'm also inclined to believe a top WvA could still beat a top MvdP from time to time... on the "right" course. Mathieu simply has superior technique, and on a course where you can really benefit from that... there is nobody that can beat him. That's simply how it is. Every barrier, every tight hairpin, off camber section... those are 0.5 -2 seconds every time, 10 obstacles per lap, easily 5 seconds per lap if not more, for ten laps, that's a "free" 50 seconds per race that a guy with "ok" bikehandling has to make up for purely on power compared to someone with superior bikehandling. That's the biggest problem. You can't keep closing those gaps and not suffer.

But what you said is also right. Wout was a skinny little twerp when he was 12-16. He then exploded physically, grew into a hunk of an athlete in a short time. Mathieu had a much more "gradual" growth. I'm quite sure Wout leapfrogged Mathieu around 2013 and he was indeed the better athlete (physically) for a while. Mathieu matured a bit later and now on a purely physical level i wouldn't want to bet against either of them. But Mathieu is simply the (far) better bike handler. All things equal, those 50 or so seconds per race, are simply the difference we have been seeing the last 2 seasons i think. I'm also still sure we didn't see a top WvA the past two years (except for maybe the 2018 WCC). I'd be interested to compare van Aert's lap times of 2015/2016 to those of 2017/2018. I wish we could find some data on that. On average, i can't imagine the past two years being of the same level. We can only hope he can make a full recovery from his injury. He's sorely missed in the field, and he was a joy to watch on the road as well.

But, i think now a lot of people are starting to appreciate van Aert. Because when he's not there, the victories of Mathieu just don't feel the same. I'm sure Mathieu feels the same way.

They need each other to get better. Like Dekker pointed out, this field won’t push Mathieu to a next level the way a top Wout could.

The only thing is, like I’ve already mentioned, we haven’t seen that Wout for some time now in CX. This has to do with his focus on the road I assume. Cause last year he was there and still got beat every time.

This begs the question will we see anyone giving Mathieu some proper competition for the coming years? Maybe Pid? We might havero wait until Nys Jr. comes up the ranks.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

They need each other to get better. Like Dekker pointed out, this field won’t push Mathieu to a next level the way a top Wout could.

The only thing is, like I’ve already mentioned, we haven’t seen that Wout for some time now in CX. This has to do with his focus on the road I assume. Cause last year he was there and still got beat every time.

This begs the question will we see anyone giving Mathieu some proper competition for the coming years? Maybe Pid? We might havero wait until Nys Jr. comes up the ranks.

I think it depends on a few things. What if Mathieu is also going to ride more road races (and of higher caliber than some of the races he rode past season), is he going to be able to remain as dominant? What will happen when he suddenly rides one or two GT's a year? What will he do with MTB?
Is he going to get better still, or will we look back in a few years and see that 2018-2019 was really the best he ever was (in CX). He's still young, but on the other hand, how much better can he possibly still get?
Is van Aert ever going to reach his +/- 2015 level again (in CX)?
Can Iserbyt make another step (not unlikely) and can Pidcock step up (or is he going to leave CX as well, with his good road results)? I can see them get close under certain conditions, close enough to beat Mathieu a few times per season, when he's not 100%. But not really as a constant threat all winter long. I think Pidcock should have been further in his development as a CX rider if he was ever going to be of the same level as Mathieu.

But otherwise, i don't think it's at all that farfetched to see Nys (who will definitely focus on CX for a long time) as the next true competitor. Nys is really making an impression, and while i always thought he'd be decent, well, he's really exceeding (my) expectations by far. What he's doing in CX isn't at all unlike Mathieu at that age, with Mathieu being born in january and Nys in November, Nys is nearly an entire year at a disadvantage compared to Mathieu in the same age bracket. Nys seems like a real iceman, cool as a cucumber, eager to outdo his dad on a technical level and seems to be developing the engine to go with it as well. He'll turn 22 before Mathieu turns 30. But it's still far too early. We thought the same about Pidcock a few years ago, and are still waiting for that to materialize.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

You keep saying he's still off last year but Im not so sure. I actually think yesterday was like his better crosses last year. He also says so himself.

I also noticed he's running way better than before. He used to really struggle with that as it would get him out of his rythm when there is more running. Like the WC in Valkenburg was infamous for that. Now he ran past half the field in the first lap. Keeps improving all his weak points.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I said at the end of last season, that if they want to challenge/ beat, Mathieu, then they have to get better technically.
I think Mathieu was already good technically, but since racing on the MTB, has become even better - and I reckon some of his rivals should follow his example.
But I can't see it happening - CX seems a quite conservative sport, and the summer is for road racing to get fitness, with CX training for skills. But they won't get closer/ better by doing the same thing.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Nope... it's what Logic already said, he wins 50 seconds in race on technique alone.. And in sand crosses this is almost easier. He can afford to ride just pace alone, didn't even need an acceleration to get away. The rest doesn't have the skills to go as fast in those sand downhills as he does, or even ride the Albert duin which only he, Nys and Albert managed...

I wish we had seen peak Nys in the same era as peak VDP, that would be interesting. We only saw just below his top Nys vs upcoming VDP/Van Aert.