Race Thread

[Armchair Cyclist]

Pidcock is the first non Dutch/Flemish medallist since Stybar in 2014, and this is the first time there have been three nationalities on the podium since 2008.

 

[jmdirt]

MVDP=STUD!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ok but all kidding aside and I know very well that Pidcock is a talent ; I checked his results from this season, in a worldcup race the closest he came
was 5th place, 30 seconds from Aerts. And now I'm supposed to believe that in the 2nd half of the World Championship race he suddenly kicks into gear,
drives twice as fast as all the Belgians, KEEPS that pace until the end, has the same lap times as Van der Poel and finishes second, this time 30 seconds before Aerts ??
Seriously how no one finds this a bit too incredible is beyond me, all of this weighing only 50 kg in a race made for powerful racers like van Aert, Aerts & Van der Poel ?

I can believe it. A good day, a known talent, others (except Mathieu) not having their best day (Aerts, Iserbyt) or recovering (van Aert) and a result is possible. I did think he was going to blow up, but ok. It's definitely remarkable, but i'm not going to scream bloody murder (=clinic).

I just don't agree that all of a sudden, because he had one good day, that he'll be heir to the thrown of van der Poel. That seems like quite the leap imho, considering his results so far. I'm not ruling it out, but i'll take the entire season into consideration, and not just one outlier result.

I'm glad to see Nys so dominant today. He's shown not just to have the nerves and mentality, the technique and the accelerations but also the engine. That was a bit of a worry of mine. But on a hard course like today, he did great. Hopefully he can show his potential next year in the U23's.

But with Pidcock being 20 years old and 2nd.. idk. Even when Vd Poel goes less CX or eventually retires, they could still be looking at Pidcocks rear, well, if he stays in CX that is.

He had one really good day and it happened at the WCC. The rest of the season was pretty dire for a guy with his talent. I wouldn't jump to conclusions regarding Pidcock just yet. I think he's got some ways to go before reaching a fit and on form van Aert's level. Actually, had van Aert not had that mechanical, i'm quite sure he'd have taken Pidcock. He had closed 10 seconds on Pidcock in half a lap, and was 11 seconds behind at the moment he got his puncture.

 

[Mick Dundee]

Even though I wasn't going to write him off, a 100% WvA would've beaten Pidcock and challenged even VdP but mechanical aside, he looked gassed with 2 laps to go, as did Aerts, as did Sweeck, as did Vanternout, so I don't think WvA would've beaten Tom today. I believe Pidcock timed his form to perfection as he did last year, pummelling Iserbyt In the U23's.

Iserbyt performance? Suprised no ones remarked on that today. He's been up and down like a yo-yo this year. At least Pidcock has been consistently mediocre (for his talent) until one race before the worlds that is. As much as folk talk of Wva's crash, what about Pidcocks terrible Tour de l'Avenir crash which ruined his U23 worlds attempt and set him back massively too. It must've affected his confidence as well.

Physically, Pidcock still resembles a junior to me so when he gets stronger, in addition to the massive confidence boost gained today, he may well be challenging, beating the likes of Aerts every race next year. Challenging VdP may still be step too far for the time being.

 

[pmcg76]

Also on Pidcock, are people forgetting his best performance prior to today was in Namur, also a brutal muddy circuit where he should have finished 3rd, but crashed on the last lap. MVDP thought that Aerts would have been better today in the conditions so maybe he was a bit below his best. Iserbyt was well below his best today so combined with a good day for Pidcock, not a huge surprise, though I admit I was thinking possible Top 5 beforehand.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Will be really interesting to follow Pidcock and Iserbyt. They surely have made a mark in the elite category but still have room to improve. What about the other well established elite riders - MVDP aside?

Quinten Hermans was not to be seen despite having had a superb season until the last weeks. Ended #9 three minutes behind Aerts.
Merlier at #8 a tad in front of QH. Not the right course for him so maybe not so surprising.
Van Kessel at #7 also looked bleak.
Vanthourenhout at #6 looked good but faded towards the end so probably a result in line with the rest of the season?
Sweeck quite close to the podium (-47 sec) but still so far away. Another result as expected?

Aerts and WvA looked a little surprised when Pidcock went away. Maybe they underestimated him. I believe WvA could have challenged Pidcock for the silver and definitely been on the podium without the puncture. Nice to hear him say that CX still matters a lot to him. Good for the sport!

For next season my guess is that the other top riders will have a tough time with Iserbyt and Pidcock unless they find some way to improve significantly. It will be Aerts, WvA, Pidcock and Iserbyt battling it out when MVDP isn't there. Any joker in there that could challenge?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Even though I wasn't going to write him off, a 100% WvA would've beaten Pidcock and challenged even VdP but mechanical aside, he looked gassed with 2 laps to go, as did Aerts, as did Sweeck, as did Vanternout, so I don't think WvA would've beaten Tom today. I believe Pidcock timed his form to perfection as he did last year, pummelling Iserbyt In the U23's.

You should watch the (final part of the) race again. Van Aert closes 7 seconds on Pidcock up to the point he catches Aerts in a few hundreds of meters and he came from further back half a lap before. He was definitely not spent. At that moment Aerts was riding 11 seconds behind Pidcock with 2 laps to go. Catching Pidcock was definitely not out of the question for van Aert. Obviously not a done deal either, but certainly not over.

 

[Strawberry_Jams]

Ok but all kidding aside and I know very well that Pidcock is a talent ; I checked his results from this season, in a worldcup race the closest he came was 5th place, 30 seconds from Aerts.

also another really important point, is that in the world cups he was starting at the back of the grid. He managed to work his way throught the field but trailed off towards the end due to the effort. Its not like he's MvdP is it?

The worlds was based on ranking so he was on the 2nd row.

 

[Leggitte]

Will be really interesting to follow Pidcock….

You can. Trinity in the field on youtube.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Pidcock got a good start and was at around #8 during first half of lap 1. At the end of lap 1 he is 18 seconds behind Aerts and on the excellent wheel of WvA. Probably ideal pacing for him to get back up to Iserbyt and Toon Aerts. Then when the chase starts after Pidcocks attack Aerts, MVA and Wout are looking at each other instead of cooperating and Iserbyt just gets into red. Sometimes things work in your favor. Congratulations to Pidcock!

ps. crazy how quick MVDP runs up all cambers, even on the last laps. Doesn't seem to tire at all.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Pidcock got a good start and was at around #8 during first half of lap 1. At the end of lap 1 he is 18 seconds behind Aerts and on the excellent wheel of WvA. Probably ideal pacing for him to get back up to Iserbyt and Toon Aerts. Then when the chase starts after Pidcocks attack Aerts, MVA and Wout are looking at each other instead of cooperating and Iserbyt just gets into red. Sometimes things work in your favor. Congratulations to Pidcock!

ps. crazy how quick MVDP runs up all cambers, even on the last laps. Doesn't seem to tire at all.

Van Aert had a much more impressive start than Pidcock in my opinion. He was gridded third row but managed to navigate his way to the front by the end of the straight, but got caught up on the inside of the first bend as riders on the right cut across.

As for Pidcock, people have said it above, it was a stand out performance from this year, along with Namur. However he has been pretty consistent with only two races where he was outside the top ten. It has definitely been a natural progression from last season where he was all over the place in results with the elites. All his U23 results were high up, however he was fluctuating between top 10s and top 15s/20s so there is an obvious development from last year to the beginning of this year. He has had an upwards trend in both seasons towards the end, if we ignore the 18th at Oostmalle. Considering where he was with 20th/22nd in the first weekend of his season, to 3rd only 10s down on VdP he is obviously hitting form at the end of the season, like this year. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a couple more podiums from him this year.
In terms of the progress we've seen over the season, at the beginning he had finished the road season a couple of weeks prior and had plenty of endurance in the legs, and could therefore last for over an hour at a high pace. As the season has gone on he has probably built up the intensity to go with that endurance which he has combined recently with motor pacing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

His Belgian trainer also said they had worked specifically towards the WCC over the course of the season.

 

[Mavic]

Also nice to see Mathieu addressing the fact that he’s certain that he’s not a GT rider, that was more his grandfather’s thing. I mean, it was obvious for the people who have been following his career, and yet it still surprises me how many people genuinely think he can contest for the win in a GT. He said that if he rides a GT it will be for stage wins (and the green jersey).

There, case closed. I’m honestly happy that he’s a classics man.

 

[jaylew]

I've watched again and I don't think WVA could have caught Pidcock but he would have at least had a shot at 3rd without the flat.

Pidcock was slightly underwhelming this year but I think that's mostly due to the huge expectations everyone has for him. It's easy to forget how young he is - only 20 and almost 2 full years younger than Iserbyt. Also, as someone mentioned he was coming off an injury this season and like VDP, he's trying to combine cross, mtb, and road, so I think he's right on target and progressing nicely. I definitely think he's more talented than guys like Iserbyt and Aerts, but his cross palmares may not ever equal theirs depending on how he decides to structure his career in the future.

2 unrelated, random questions:

Which Nys wins in a race right now, Thibau or Sven?

Will Michael Vanthourenhout or Laurens Sweeck ever win a World Cup race?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Pidcock was also really good on the Koppenberg. So basically in the hardest courses he came to the front. He still has work in the faster crosses I think. Especially the fast corners

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

2 unrelated, random questions:

Which Nys wins in a race right now, Thibau or Sven?

Will Michael Vanthourenhout or Laurens Sweeck ever win a World Cup race?

If you watched the docu-soap "DNA Nys" you would know the answer to the first question (i assume you can't watch Belgian tv). Thibau kicks Sven's ass handily. On training he's often better in hard technical excercizes than the pros in the team. Last week he was the only one able to take a steep climb in the sand after a 90° turn in a descent. All the other Telenet riders had to get off the bike.

 

[Black Betsy]

If you watched the docu-soap "DNA Nys" you would know the answer to the first question (i assume you can't watch Belgian tv). Thibau kicks Sven's ass handily. On training he's often better in hard technical excercizes than the pros in the team. Last week he was the only one able to take a steep climb in the sand after a 90° turn in a descent. All the other Telenet riders had to get off the bike.

View: https://youtu.be/sUvU_SfMRZ8?t=2096

 

[Barkintheeye]

If you watched the docu-soap "DNA Nys" you would know the answer to the first question (i assume you can't watch Belgian tv). Thibau kicks Sven's ass handily. On training he's often better in hard technical excercizes than the pros in the team. Last week he was the only one able to take a steep climb in the sand after a 90° turn in a descent. All the other Telenet riders had to get off the bike.

The juniors I train with can often ride really difficult sections due to their lower weight, particularly uphill sand sections.

Still, TNys looks already like something extra. It would be fun to know just how fast he is compared to the U23 and Elite men. Last year at Bogense I remember that they talked about how close the U23 (Pidcock/Iserbyt) lap times were to the Elite. Major difference was the consistency and number of intense efforts that Elite men could produce. Since conditions didn’t change all too much between the days Junior men times could possibly be compared...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The juniors I train with can often ride really difficult sections due to their lower weight, particularly uphill sand sections.

Still, TNys looks already like something extra. It would be fun to know just how fast he is compared to the U23 and Elite men. Last year at Bogense I remember that they talked about how close the U23 (Pidcock/Iserbyt) lap times were to the Elite. Major difference was the consistency and number of intense efforts that Elite men could produce. Since conditions didn’t change all too much between the days Junior men times could possibly be compared...

Haven't checked recently, but in 2013, only 2 pros had faster lap times than van Aert in the u23 s. Nys and Stybar. But Thibau is only junior now.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

interview with david vd poel a while back was that Mathieu was already lapping faster than all pro's sometimes in u23 races...

 

[RedheadDane]

Kastelijn crashed badly…

Worst, Van Loy, Van Der Heijden, and Betsema in the front.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Haven't checked recently, but in 2013, only 2 pros had faster lap times than van Aert in the u23 s. Nys and Stybar. But Thibau is only junior now.

I compared the lap times at the World Championships in Bogense last year for the Junior Men, U23 Men and Elite Men. The junior men were approximately 5% slower than the elite men (MVDP) with average lap times of 06:04 (7 laps) compared to U23 05:58 (8 laps) and Elite 05:47 (12 laps). Just taking average lap times on the winner (Ben Turner) in junior men he would place 24 in Elite men but in reality probably significantly further behind since 5 more laps would make a large difference.

 

[jaylew]

What a finish for 3rd in the men's race!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

interview with david vd poel a while back was that Mathieu was already lapping faster than all pro's sometimes in u23 races...

Makes sense. Also because often the pros would ride more tactically especially in races where they can't drop each other, and lower the tempo. Whereas un youth ranks, it's often full gas all the time.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

The juniors I train with can often ride really difficult sections due to their lower weight, particularly uphill sand sections.

Still, TNys looks already like something extra. It would be fun to know just how fast he is compared to the U23 and Elite men. Last year at Bogense I remember that they talked about how close the U23 (Pidcock/Iserbyt) lap times were to the Elite. Major difference was the consistency and number of intense efforts that Elite men could produce. Since conditions didn’t change all too much between the days Junior men times could possibly be compared...

I think the thing with riders like Pidcock and Iserbyt is the superprestige u23 had been combined with the elite last year so they had a season or two to ride and take blows out of each other on their own, and then they were thrown into battles with the worlds best and had to up their game. From this it's also easy to see why the lap times weren't far off. Plus with the U23 worlds, the race being around 50min they ride for less time so can go harder for longer as they don't have to save a bit more for that extra 10-15min or and elite WC.

Something for the duo of Pidcock and Iserbyt that Helen Wyman has been saying on Redbull and GCN is that they are smaller and therefore have a lower centre of gravity. Thus meaning they can push round tight slippery corners harder as there weight is lower than someone like Van der Poel or Aerts, who may even have to go on a slightly wider line with more grass to get the same grip but lose a meter or two to the rider in front just to go at the same speed or higher. Just something until she had mentioned about it in commentary i'd never really thought about.