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RadioShack rider positive

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Apr 19, 2010
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Joey_J said:
This is from the official TdF communiqué in 99. I’m sure everybody saw the press conference which explained the same thing.

>Lance Armstrong, the yellow jersey holder in the 86th Tour de France was tested on July 4 at 17.00 after the first stage of the Tour between Montaigu and Challans. The test was done by the Laboratoire national de lutte contre le dopage (LNLD) at Châtenay-Malabry (Hauts-de-Seine), and they detected traces of triamcinolone acétonide, a synthetic corticoid in the urine. However, the analysis was not declared positive, the testosterone ratio for epitestosterone being too low to warrant a positive finding. It was 0.2, when the limit after which a positive test is returned is fixed at 6.<

Interesting, thanks.

I wonder why he wanted a TUE when this cream can be bought over the counter in most places?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Joey_J said:
This is from the official TdF communiqué in 99. I’m sure everybody saw the press conference which explained the same thing.

>Lance Armstrong, the yellow jersey holder in the 86th Tour de France was tested on July 4 at 17.00 after the first stage of the Tour between Montaigu and Challans. The test was done by the Laboratoire national de lutte contre le dopage (LNLD) at Châtenay-Malabry (Hauts-de-Seine), and they detected traces of triamcinolone acétonide, a synthetic corticoid in the urine. However, the analysis was not declared positive, the testosterone ratio for epitestosterone being too low to warrant a positive finding. It was 0.2, when the limit after which a positive test is returned is fixed at 6.<

Quick question for you Joey, when they tested Armstrong's sample what did they find in it? Easy Answer = Cortisone.

You can hide behind that the amount was not enough for a sanction but that does not change the fact he tested positive for Cortisone.

You need to brush up on the latest Armstrong mantra, it is now "Never Sanctioned" because "Never Tested Positive" opens up too many questions.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Quick question for you Joey, when they tested Armstrong's sample what did they find in it? Easy Answer = Cortisone.

You can hide behind that the amount was not enough for a sanction but that does not change the fact he tested positive for Cortisone.

You need to brush up on the latest Armstrong mantra, it is now "Never Sanctioned" because "Never Tested Positive" opens up too many questions.

I think "not enough for a positive test" means there was no performance enhancing benefit from such microscopic elements found in his system.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Eyjafjallajokull said:
I think "not enough for a positive test" means there was no performance enhancing benefit from such microscopic elements found in his system.

The major point is the history of usage, ie: staying below "levels" of certain drugs was the strategy of riders for years and the accepted standard by UCI. A product being over the counter (think DHEA) is a convenient excuse for still having residual traces of a full drug program. If you don't get the TUE before using a prescribed, legitimate aid you run the risk of being lumped in with dopers aiming to mask a program.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Eyjafjallajokull said:
I think "not enough for a positive test" means there was no performance enhancing benefit from such microscopic elements found in his system.

The test for Cortisone has a narrow window. This test was performed on the first day of the Tour. As the positive was not consistent with a topical cream it was more likely that the positive was for a small amount because it had been a few days since he last used Cortisone and it was only trace amounts left in his body.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Race Radio said:
The test for Cortisone has a narrow window. This test was performed on the first day of the Tour. As the positive was not consistent with a topical cream it was more likely that the positive was for a small amount because it had been a few days since he last used Cortisone and it was only trace amounts left in his body.

Could you explain why the test was not consistent with a cream? The testers seemed to think it was consistent with a cream due to its microscopic levels, which is why he was not sanctioned. What values do you believe showed it scientifically could not be a cream, because I haven't seen this before.

As you point out, it was found on the first day of the tour so he could not have used it for performance during the Tour itself. If it was found later on in the race then there could at least be the theoretical possibility that it was not just a cream, but not in this case.
 

buckwheat

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Eyjafjallajokull said:
As you point out, it was found on the first day of the tour so he could not have used it for performance during the Tour itself. If it was found later on in the race then there could at least be the theoretical possibility that it was not just a cream, but not in this case.

Really? maybe it helped him be fully recovered for the Prologue which he won.

Just a thought.:cool:
 

Dr. Maserati

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Eyjafjallajokull said:
Could you explain why the test was not consistent with a cream? The testers seemed to think it was consistent with a cream due to its microscopic levels, which is why he was not sanctioned. What values do you believe showed it scientifically could not be a cream, because I haven't seen this before.

As you point out, it was found on the first day of the tour so he could not have used it for performance during the Tour itself. If it was found later on in the race then there could at least be the theoretical possibility that it was not just a cream, but not in this case.

You use the word "consistent" rather liberally BPC.

If it was "consistent with a cream" then why did Armstrong fill out "nothing" when it asked 'medications taken' on the attached doping form on the day of the control?

Why did he deny during that Tour ever having taken corticoids or requiring medical excemption for any banned product?

****This rerminds me of the bad joke where a guy goes to his Doctor because he has a strawberry growing out his arse......
The Doctor reassures him and says "its ok, I will get you some cream for it".
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Eyjafjallajokull said:
Could you explain why the test was not consistent with a cream? The testers seemed to think it was consistent with a cream due to its microscopic levels, which is why he was not sanctioned. What values do you believe showed it scientifically could not be a cream, because I haven't seen this before.

As you point out, it was found on the first day of the tour so he could not have used it for performance during the Tour itself. If it was found later on in the race then there could at least be the theoretical possibility that it was not just a cream, but not in this case.

Perhaps you can tell us why you keep coming back here after you have been banned 30 times?

Cortisone is used for recovery. Even a troll can see how it would be helpful to recover from a heavy pre-Tour training block
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Perhaps you can tell us why you keep coming back here after you have been banned 30 times?

Cortisone is used for recovery. Even a troll can see how it would be helpful to recover from a heavy pre-Tour training block

very helpful for recovery, especially in small doses, or at least it was to me. high dosage messes with your sleep cycle, appetite,etc. i had a steady blood pressure increase until dosages were cut back. (wasn't there something recently about blood pressure meds found?) lower doses were like finding the fountain of youth. recovery is immediate.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
You use the word "consistent" rather liberally BPC.

It was not me that brought up the word "consistent". Race Radio has said a couple of times that the results of the test were not consistent with a cream. I am still waiting for him to explain the science behind that, because the testers evidently thought it was consistent with a cream.

If it was "consistent with a cream" then why did Armstrong fill out "nothing" when it asked 'medications taken' on the attached doping form on the day of the control?

I don't know. When he filled out the procedural form maybe he did not know the cream contained a banned product or that it would matter because it's such a slight amount it would not show up in a test. Maybe he thought he better not put it in because he bought it over the counter and did not have a TUE.

Why did he deny during that Tour ever having taken corticoids or requiring medical excemption for any banned product?.

As said above, because he might not have really had a TUE and thought he would look better to have one. Have you ever heard of the old saying about the cover up being worse than the crime?
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Cortisone is used for recovery. Even a troll can see how it would be helpful to recover from a heavy pre-Tour training block

Possibly. If it was found in a test later on during the tour then they might not have given him the benefit of the doubt. In those days doping during competition was what they were really concerned with.

I've heard it has a numbing effect on pain as well.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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luckyboy said:
Ah ok, thanks. Something made me think it was stage 9 and EPO was the prologue (EPO was the prologue as well as stage 1, 9, 10, 12 and 14 though).

All the EPO would be front loaded since it takes eight to ten days for red blood cells to fully mature. No need to take it in the last week.
 

Dr. Maserati

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luckyboy said:
Does anyone know on what stage of the Tour the cortisone was found? Can't find anything..
Earlier RR said it was 'on the first day of the Tour" and even though BPC agreed with him this is incorrect.

Eyjafjallajokull said:
As you point out, it was found on the first day of the tour so he could not have used it for performance during the Tour itself.
Eyjafjallajokull said:
The prologue.

From the Le Monde article :'Corticoid traces in tests on Lance Armstrong after Stage 1"

Stage 1 was on the 4th July, the day after the prologue - but the story did not break until later in the Tour.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Eyjafjallajokull said:
It was not me that brought up the word "consistent". Race Radio has said a couple of times that the results of the test were not consistent with a cream. I am still waiting for him to explain the science behind that, because the testers evidently thought it was consistent with a cream.
........
I don't know. When he filled out the procedural form maybe he did not know the cream contained a banned product or that it would matter because it's such a slight amount it would not show up in a test. Maybe he thought he better not put it in because he bought it over the counter and did not have a TUE.
......
As said above, because he might not have really had a TUE and thought he would look better to have one. Have you ever heard of the old saying about the cover up being worse than the crime?

You have evidence of what the 'testers' said? Are you sure you are not confusing that with what the UCI said?

As for the rest - so he wrote "no" because he didn't have a TUE for a banned substance? Very interesting - I think you are getting the hang of how this 'anti-doping' procedure works.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Earlier RR said it was 'on the first day of the Tour" and even though BPC agreed with him this is incorrect.

From the Le Monde article :'Corticoid traces in tests on Lance Armstrong after Stage 1"

Stage 1 was on the 4th July, the day after the prologue - but the story did not break until later in the Tour.

It was still such a small amount it would not have been of use for recovery after the prologue.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
You have evidence of what the 'testers' said? Are you sure you are not confusing that with what the UCI said?

Do you have evidence that the UCI overruled the testers? Maybe this is what RaceRadio was refering to. I await to see this information before I make a judgment.

As for the rest - so he wrote "no" because he didn't have a TUE for a banned substance? Very interesting - I think you are getting the hang of how this 'anti-doping' procedure works.

You can buy this cream over the counter where I am. I presume that's the same in France.
 

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Eyjafjallajokull said:
You said earlier Lance had no TUE, what part of the rules do you struggle with Sproket01? I have to nip out now-have fun.


Classes of drugs subject to certain restrictions
C: The use of corticoids is prohibited,
except when used for topical application (auricular, ophthalmological
or dermatological), inhalations (asthma and allergic rhinitis)
and local or intra-articular injections.
Such forms of utilisation are to be proved by the rider with a medical prescription.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Commentators at the time said that the amount was inconsistent with a cream

Every team that enters the Tour has to make a detailed list of all medical products they will be traveling with while in France. This includes prescribed products and over the counter medicines. In 1999 USPS had the largest list by far with 126 different products. According to the spokesperson for the agency in charge of this process none of these products contained Cemalyt, the Cortisone that Armstrong tested positive for. This should be no surprise as Armstrong himself signed a form stating that he was not using the cream.....it was only after he tested positive that his story changed.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
You said earlier Lance had no TUE, what part of the rules do you struggle with Sproket01? I have to nip out now-have fun.

I said he might not have had a TUE which is why he decided it would look better to get a backdated one, yes. It could be the cover up is worse than the crime.

I myself am packing at the moment. Off to Mallorca first thing tomorrow. :)