Random French guys ripping up the Tour

[blackcat]

Vayer coached Peraud for a bit

and my point stands wrt using his function as a determinant of a rider who is not doping. He is not to know what a riders ability, and just looking at an end sum, does not duly assess the derminants and inputs.

he looks at the end-point, and a symptom, but the symptom may be a result of any number of factors that he is unaware of.

it matters not that it is antoine vayer and he knows or coached him, or has seen him on an ergo and blown a 86Vo2 from his lungs.

that said, his standard and formula may well be, the best we have got.

 

[blackcat]

Peraud looked absolutely smashed on some of those stages. I can't remember what stage it was (Pla d'Adet), but he was hanging on for dear life with the look of a desperation for the last 5k.

Meanwhile, Nibali looked as though he was shuffling through his iTunes playlist.

Bernard Kohl looked smashed. Has no relevance.

Nibali might be naturally talented enough to still have easy breathing on the climb.

that thomas dekker used to have his edge.

hey hey Jv, hey hey Jv, how does Thomas Dekker feel to watch his rival who he had his mark, now win all these GTs?

oh, and Nibali is noticably thinner. not quite Horner Wiggo and Froome thinner. But definitely NOT NORMAL

 

[Tonton]

Thanks for the translation. It seems to me the interpretation of the event depends on your definition of abuse?

Sounds like they abused each other?

Hence, le docteur m'abuse

 

[Tonton]

JCP 2011 Stage -Actual Power W -W/kg -Power at 78kg W
Luz Ardiden -339 -5.42 -375
Beille -362 -5.79 -400
Galibier -338 -5.41 -374
Alpe d'Huez -354 -5.66 -391
Average -348 -5.6 -385

JCP 2014 Stage -W/kg -Power at 78kg W
Planche des BF -6.30 -434
Chamrousse -5.79 -385
Risoul -6.08 -418
Port de Bales -6.08 -415
Plat d'Adet -5.95 -410
Hautacam -5.87 -405


Also, for comparison: 2011, final 42.5km ITT, 6th 1:33 behind T.Martin.
2014, final 54km ITT, 7th 2:27 behind T. Martin

Pinot 2012 Stage -Actual Power W -W/kg -Power at 78kg W
Planches des BF -389 -6.17 -424
Col de la Croix -392 -6.22 -428
Grand Colombier -360 -5.71 -392
La Toussuire -377 -5.98 -408
Peyresourde West -340 -5.40 -371
Peyresourde East -394 -6.25 -429

Pinot 2014 Stage -W/kg -Power at 78kg W
Planche des BF -6.28 -436
Chamrousse -5.71 -396
Risoul -5.95 -413
Port de Bales -6.01 -417
Plat d'Adet -5.74 -397
Hautacam -5.89 -408

Well, well, well...[I can imagine Benotti's joker smile growing larger]

Data actually shows values that would clearly indicate (and Vayer wrote an article about it) that our friend Vincenzo was lucky not to leave this year's TdF in handcuffs. The best rider with average readings (clean?) was TJVG. Bardet's values actually look very believable too.

As far as TP and JCP, Pinot's progression looks more Kosher than JCP's (although the latter had 3 vs. 2 years to increase performance).

What are JCP's and Pinot's VO2 Max? Both riders show LeMondesque values for power/watts. Not quite suspicious, but pretty darn close. That would be realistic with a VO2 Max of, say 90 considering their weight. JCP's is 85 to 89 according to different posts on this thread. It'd better be 89...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

JCP's is 85 to 89 according to different posts on this thread. It'd better be 89...

You know you can post links to the data - it's far more readable when formatted properly.

 

[Escarabajo]

...

So what is wrong with Pinot's values?

He actually almost cracked one day in 2012. Dropped very early. Had the luxury of being an unknown for the Tour in 2012.

 

[kingjr]

Peraud looked absolutely smashed on some of those stages

Mancebo always looked smashed too.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Voekler? What does he look like when the cameras are on him? What words would you use to describe that look he has?

 

[proffate]

Voekler? What does he look like when the cameras are on him? What words would you use to describe that look he has?

More comfortable than the rest, I'd say

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Bernard Kohl looked smashed. Has no relevance.

Nibali might be naturally talented enough to still have easy breathing on the climb.

that thomas dekker used to have his edge.

hey hey Jv, hey hey Jv, how does Thomas Dekker feel to watch his rival who he had his mark, now win all these GTs?

oh, and Nibali is noticably thinner. not quite Horner Wiggo and Froome thinner. But definitely NOT NORMAL

I hope you were drunk when you posted this. It would be a shame if this is all you could muster sober.

I don't really need to explain why your post is stupid, do I? Because I hate explaining the obvious to people who need the obvious explained to them.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Mancebo always looked smashed too.

a) I don't know if Peraud is clean. I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I haven't seen any outlandish performance.
b) Mancebo was smashed because he was racing against some of the biggest dopers in cycling history. Peraud was smashed while racing against Pinot, Van Garderen, Bardet, and Nibali.
c) Same with Bernie Kohl. The guy was smashed against Ricco, Menchov, the Schlecks, etc.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

c) Same with Bernie Kohl. The guy was smashed against Ricco, Menchov, the Schlecks, etc.

You forgot Evans. Biggest doper that year, right?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

More comfortable than the rest, I'd say

Great pic, thanks.

Voekler also has some of the most ripped legs I see when he's pedaling.

 

[42x16ss]

You forgot Evans. Biggest doper that year, right?

Close. In '08 I'd say that Ricco, Schumacher and possibly Kohl were the leaders on that front.

Schumacher driving the break 3 days in a row, followed by a TT win a day or two later is still one of the craziest things I've ever seen, in ANY sport.

 

[42x16ss]

You also have to factor what the rider's visible condition on the stage itself and after. Peroud looked hammered on the saddle and even more so afterwards. Just like I remember they used to be pre Big Mig!

So did Evans in '07 when he was chasing after Contador and Rasmussen when they went ballistic on the Peyresourde. He still limited his losses to one of the most ridiculous duels in cycling history

 

[blackcat]

Voekler? What does he look like when the cameras are on him? What words would you use to describe that look he has?

the look of a 16 yo male losing his virginity and managing to hang on like levi leipheimer

 

[Gavandope]

Peraud looked absolutely smashed on some of those stages. I can't remember what stage it was (Pla d'Adet), but he was hanging on for dear life with the look of a desperation for the last 5k.

Meanwhile, Nibali looked as though he was shuffling through his iTunes playlist.

Lol. If only Lasse Viren had an iPod in the 70's!

 

[poupou]

Bernard Kohl looked smashed. Has no relevance.

Nibali might be naturally talented enough to still have easy breathing on the climb.

The best comparaison is with other talented riders of the pre-EPO era, like Lemond, Hinault or Fignon!

 

[thehog]

So,e good comments from Madiot here. The Anglo focus from the UCI may kill off the French scene.

In a strongly-worded interview with L’Équipe, Madiot cited the example of the Châteauroux Classic de l’Indre, which will not be held next year. He said that the organiser has the budget but has opted to stop the race as he was “tired of being taken for a fool.” Madiot added that foreign teams were not treating Coupe de France races with due respect.

“When Omega Pharma-QuickStep promises to come with [Mark] Cavendish and he isn’t there, it’s proof that the teams don’t give a damn. One thing interests them: dough,” Madiot said. “There’s also a form of French bashing. Because something is French, it’s ****. Take Maxime Bouet for example. He’s leaving Ag2r-La Mondiale to go to Lefevere [QuickStep] and he has the impression that he’s signing for Barça.

“Does he know what he’s going to find over there? I’ve just taken on Steve Morabito [from BMC]. We’ve chatted and I maintain that BMC doesn’t do any more than us, perhaps even less. We need to preserve and promote what we have here: our teams, our riders, our races.”

Madiot pointed to the example of Spain, where the gradual devastation of the local racing calendar has led to a drain of sponsors – Movistar is the only remaining WorldTour team – and he expressed concern that a similar process might take place in France. He also gave short shrift to the proposed changes to the UCI calendar that are slated for 2017, which would prevent WorldTour teams from participating in lower-level races.

“That project should be forgotten. From what I know about it, everything will be reviewed,” Madiot said. “National protectionism should be enacted. We can find an arrangement that would allow greater participation from foreign teams in French races.”

Madiot believes that foreign teams who wish to ride in the Tour de France should earn their ticket by participating in smaller French races throughout the year. “For example, a few years ago, Skil-Shimano, who weren’t in the WorldTour, wanted to get an invitation to the Tour so they did all of the races in France. Once they were well ensconced, we didn’t see them again. That’s not good.”

In an equally forthright interview with Pédale! magazine earlier this year, Madiot had already decried the fact that English was now being used in directeurs sportifs meetings held in French town halls on the eve of Coupe de France races, and he returned to that linguistic bugbear in L’Équipe on Friday.

“Whether you like it or not, France is the centre of the cycling world,” he said. “So one, you speak French because it’s the official language of the UCI, and two, you come and race on the French circuit.

“The four historic countries of cycling are France, Italy, Spain and Belgium. They need to be respected. Our bedrock needs to be protected. I’m a provocateur but that’s because I have to sound the alarm.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/madiot-like-it-or-not-france-is-the-centre-of-the-cycling-world

 

[hrotha]

He makes some good points, then he blows it with the French language chauvinist BS.

 

[Mellow Velo]

So,e good comments from Madiot here. The Anglo focus from the UCI may kill off the French scene.

“The four historic countries of cycling are France, Italy, Spain and Belgium. They need to be respected. Our bedrock needs to be protected. I’m a provocateur but that’s because I have to sound the alarm.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/madiot-like-it-or-not-france-is-the-centre-of-the-cycling-world

Absolutely agree with this.
Debated this whole scenario elsewhere, a while back.
Some startling facts about how those countries have suffered in recent years.

France: A high of 248 racing days, just 5 years ago. This year it was just 208.
Italy: In 4 seasons has dropped from 155 days to just 90 days:
Spain: By far the worst, plummeting from 158 days to a meagre 66, in just 6 years.
Belgium:Bucks the trend, having had just 65 races days in 2009, peaking at 79 in 2012.

And now the talk is about chopping a week from the Giro and Vuelta........

 

[Granville57]

He makes some good points, then he blows it with the French language chauvinist BS.

Oui. Je suis d'accord.

 

[oldcrank]

He makes some good points, then he blows it with the French language chauvinist BS.

Yes, my friend, Monsieur Madiot should peruse the UCI Constitution sometime:
Chapter XIV OFFICIAL LANGUAGES
Article 79 The official languages of the UCI shall be English and French.

 

[thehog]

Absolutely agree with this.
Debated this whole scenario elsewhere, a while back.
Some startling facts about how those countries have suffered in recent years.

France: A high of 248 racing days, just 5 years ago. This year it was just 208.
Italy: In 4 seasons has dropped from 155 days to just 90 days:
Spain: By far the worst, plummeting from 158 days to a meagre 66, in just 6 years.
Belgium:Bucks the trend, having had just 65 races days in 2009, peaking at 79 in 2012.

And now the talk is about chopping a week from the Giro and Vuelta........

My feeling is the US in terms of UCI races us way up, UK is up and Australia. Canada also.

I'm sure the bike companies are pushing the new frontiers as well. New markets etc and Italy's and Spain's economies are not helping.

It would be sad if the France Espoirs scene died off. Its has been a breeding ground for many Pros from all over the world. Cycling school of hard knocks.

 

[Benotti69]

I guess the sponsors coming into the sport are dragging the racing further away from the 4 'home countries'.

If Madiot wants France to be the 'home' of cycling he needs to get more French sponsors involved in the sport.