Rate the 2016 Tour de France

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":3df29b51]Adam Yates was just a few seconds behind for 3rd spot. What did he do in the last mountain stage, nothing. He rather finished 4th.

All you need to know about the current crop of riders, no character.

Then you know nothing at all about Yates.[/quote]I love this argument. "I dont like what you are saying so you know nothing at all about Yates". Thumbs up.

Congrats to him with his 4th place but no character at all. Nice that others have noticed that too. His accomplishments, age whatever have nothing to do with this.

He was a few seconds behind and was doing absolutely nothing, just to be afraid to get 5th, 6th of 7th. That's a lack of both character and ambition yes. He's not the only one though.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

The boy is only 23. He won the white jersey. He fought himself onto the virtual podium. He'll be on it next year.

If he's not ambitious at 23 he won't be next year. Or the year after it. It's not something you can train for I'm afraid.

Riiight. So fighting yourself to 4th place and hanging on to the top guys in the world shows a lack of ambition??

If he could have attacked himself back on to the podium he would have done so. What he says to journalists is neither here nor there.

He couldn't have tried on the final descent? why not? Did anybody put a leash on him or what?

The team he was trialling for wanted an easy final descent to wrap up yellow

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

The boy is only 23. He won the white jersey. He fought himself onto the virtual podium. He'll be on it next year.

If he's not ambitious at 23 he won't be next year. Or the year after it. It's not something you can train for I'm afraid.

Riiight. So fighting yourself to 4th place and hanging on to the top guys in the world shows a lack of ambition??

If he could have attacked himself back on to the podium he would have done so. What he says to journalists is neither here nor there.

He couldn't have tried on the final descent? why not? Did anybody put a leash on him or what?

Why? Did you not see what happened on the previous day????

Valverde sums it up "“Sky was setting a high tempo, and it was too dangerous to attack on the descent,” he said. “At the end of a long Tour, everyone is tired. No one wanted to take risks.”

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":t7mmf2hk]Adam Yates was just a few seconds behind for 3rd spot. What did he do in the last mountain stage, nothing. He rather finished 4th.

All you need to know about the current crop of riders, no character.

Then you know nothing at all about Yates.[/quote]I love this argument. "I dont like what you are saying so you know nothing at all about Yates". Thumbs up.

Congrats to him with his 4th place but no character at all. Nice that others have noticed that too. His accomplishments, age whatever have nothing to do with this.

He was a few seconds behind and was doing absolutely nothing, just to be afraid to get 5th, 6th of 7th. That's a lack of both character and ambition yes. He's not the only one though.[/quote]


Looks like Valverde has no character too, then "Jeff"

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":1gyiblri]Adam Yates was just a few seconds behind for 3rd spot. What did he do in the last mountain stage, nothing. He rather finished 4th.

All you need to know about the current crop of riders, no character.[/quote]Both Bardet and Quintana were climbing better than him the days prior. And they weren't the only ones. It would have almost certainly been a dumb move. But yes, let's ignore all that and not just risk losing 4th place - his first meaningful GT performance in his career - but also take risks in a dangerous, wet descent.

CN logic at its finest.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

The boy is only 23. He won the white jersey. He fought himself onto the virtual podium. He'll be on it next year.

If he's not ambitious at 23 he won't be next year. Or the year after it. It's not something you can train for I'm afraid.

Riiight. So fighting yourself to 4th place and hanging on to the top guys in the world shows a lack of ambition??

If he could have attacked himself back on to the podium he would have done so. What he says to journalists is neither here nor there.

He couldn't have tried on the final descent? why not? Did anybody put a leash on him or what?

Why? Did you not see what happened on the previous day????

Valverde sums it up "“Sky was setting a high tempo, and it was too dangerous to attack on the descent,” he said. “At the end of a long Tour, everyone is tired. No one wanted to take risks.”

Oh yes. Thanks Valverde. Somehow I thought that Purito attacking meant SKY's pace wasn't that high, but apparently he managed to break away because he could make 7W/kg or stuff like that. Not bad for a soon to be retired climber who was nowhere near Yates in all the other MTFs.

No one wants to take risks? Really? Isn't that exactly what I meant when I say lack of ambition? You know, willing to take risks in order to reach your goal. Ambition?

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":2sf5wbzg]Adam Yates was just a few seconds behind for 3rd spot. What did he do in the last mountain stage, nothing. He rather finished 4th.

All you need to know about the current crop of riders, no character.

Then you know nothing at all about Yates.

I love this argument. "I dont like what you are saying so you know nothing at all about Yates". Thumbs up.

Congrats to him with his 4th place but no character at all. Nice that others have noticed that too. His accomplishments, age whatever have nothing to do with this.

He was a few seconds behind and was doing absolutely nothing, just to be afraid to get 5th, 6th of 7th. That's a lack of both character and ambition yes. He's not the only one though.[/quote]


Looks like Valverde has no character too, then "Jeff"

[/quote]
I like Valverde, he is old school.

Doesnt mean he should talk for others or that you should believe everything what he or others are saying. If we are going to form an opinion about what riders are saying, than we can better quit.

I understand he is tired, after the classiques and the Giro. Besides, Rodriguez was able to get away as well.

 

[hrotha]

Valverde is famously inept when it comes to this kind of stuff. And if your point is that Yates thought the risk was not worth it, no one disagrees with that. We're just saying that's immensely telling of how boring and unambitious he is.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

Oh yes. Thanks Valverde. Somehow I thought that Purito attacking meant SKY's pace wasn't that high, but apparently he managed to break away because he could make 7W/kg or stuff like that. Not bad for a soon to be retired climber who was nowhere near Yates in all the other MTFs.

Did you even watch the race?

 

[kwikki]

Re:

Valverde is famously inept when it comes to this kind of stuff. And if your point is that Yates thought the risk was not worth it, no one disagrees with that. We're just saying that's immensely telling of how boring and unambitious he is.

Fourth place on your second Tour at age 23.

Yes, that shows a lack of ambition.

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":1cxisjsy]Adam Yates was just a few seconds behind for 3rd spot. What did he do in the last mountain stage, nothing. He rather finished 4th.

All you need to know about the current crop of riders, no character.

Both Bardet and Quintana were climbing better than him the days prior. And they weren't the only ones. It would have almost certainly been a dumb move. But yes, let's ignore all that and not just risk losing 4th place - his first meaningful GT performance in his career - but also take risks in a dangerous, wet descent.

CN logic at its finest.[/quote]No one will ever remember who finished 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th whatever. People like Mollema, Yates think like that.

They remember him finishing top 10 and thats it.

Podium is a different story.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

Oh yes. Thanks Valverde. Somehow I thought that Purito attacking meant SKY's pace wasn't that high, but apparently he managed to break away because he could make 7W/kg or stuff like that. Not bad for a soon to be retired climber who was nowhere near Yates in all the other MTFs.

Did you even watch the race?

Yes, I meant that Purito has been behind Yates every single time there were gaps among the favorites. Yes, it was an overstatement.

Fourth place on your second Tour at age 23.

Yes, that shows a lack of ambition.

Yes. It shows legs. And I guess it shows he's cautious or sensible or whatever, not ambitious. Which can be regarded as a good or bad thing, doesn't really matter, but my point is that he's not a little kid, he's a man and his character won't change overnight. He won't "grow up"

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

The boy is only 23. He won the white jersey. He fought himself onto the virtual podium. He'll be on it next year.

If he's not ambitious at 23 he won't be next year. Or the year after it. It's not something you can train for I'm afraid.

Riiight. So fighting yourself to 4th place and hanging on to the top guys in the world shows a lack of ambition??

If he could have attacked himself back on to the podium he would have done so. What he says to journalists is neither here nor there.

He couldn't have tried on the final descent? why not? Did anybody put a leash on him or what?

Because there was a long period of flat after the descent?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Valverde is famously inept when it comes to this kind of stuff. And if your point is that Yates thought the risk was not worth it, no one disagrees with that. We're just saying that's immensely telling of how boring and unambitious he is.

Fourth place on your second Tour at age 23.

Yes, that shows a lack of ambition.

As Eshnar said, that shows legs, not ambition. No one has questioned his athletic performance.

 

[infeXio]

Re: Re:

The boy is only 23. He won the white jersey. He fought himself onto the virtual podium. He'll be on it next year.

If he's not ambitious at 23 he won't be next year. Or the year after it. It's not something you can train for I'm afraid.

Riiight. So fighting yourself to 4th place and hanging on to the top guys in the world shows a lack of ambition??

If he could have attacked himself back on to the podium he would have done so. What he says to journalists is neither here nor there.

He couldn't have tried on the final descent? why not? Did anybody put a leash on him or what?

Because there was a long period of flat after the descent?

There wasn't any flat part after the final descent to Morzine?

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

Because there was a long period of flat after the descent?

In Morzine? No, less than a km.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Because there was a long period of flat after the descent?

In Morzine? No, less than a km.

According to the CyclingQuotes preview, it's 1.6km - hardly long, for sure, but too long to hold off a marauding SkyTrain when you've just ridden your first GT for GC.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

Because there was a long period of flat after the descent?

In Morzine? No, less than a km.

According to the CyclingQuotes preview, it's 1.6km - hardly long, for sure, but too long to hold off a marauding SkyTrain when you've just ridden your first GT for GC.

is this a joke or what

 

[hrotha]

The SkyTrain was taking it like super easy. They had no interest whatsoever in chasing anyone at that point.

And if 1.6 km is too long, there's basically no suitable routes for an attack anywhere in France except on the last climb of MTF stages.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Because there was a long period of flat after the descent?

In Morzine? No, less than a km.

According to the CyclingQuotes preview, it's 1.6km - hardly long, for sure, but too long to hold off a marauding SkyTrain when you've just ridden your first GT for GC.

is this a joke or what

No.

The SkyTrain was taking it like super easy. They had no interest whatsoever in chasing anyone at that point.

And if 1.6 km is too long, there's basically no suitable routes for an attack anywhere in France except on the last climb of MTF stages.

I'm suggesting that Yates might have been cooked, not that it's physically impossible to attack with more than 1.6km to go. (Also, I suspect Sky would have started working if Quintana had responded, which is more than likely.)

 

[Eshnar]

1,600 m flat. Less than a 2' effort. Any professional cyclist could hold a 10s gap against any kind of train.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

Valverde is famously inept when it comes to this kind of stuff. And if your point is that Yates thought the risk was not worth it, no one disagrees with that. We're just saying that's immensely telling of how boring and unambitious he is.

Fourth place on your second Tour at age 23.

Yes, that shows a lack of ambition.

As Eshnar said, that shows legs, not ambition. No one has questioned his athletic performance.

Right. Getting top 4 in the top bike race in the world requires no ambition, just 'legs'. It's easy to say from the comfort of your sofa. The guys on the road, all of them, saw it differently.

 

[railxmig]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":2fb0qit1]Adam Yates was just a few seconds behind for 3rd spot. What did he do in the last mountain stage, nothing. He rather finished 4th.

All you need to know about the current crop of riders, no character.

Then you know nothing at all about Yates.[/quote]
Sorry, but i will call your reasoning here a bit flawed. Please remember how Bardet did achieve his 2nd place. Yates' objective would be not to distance sky machine but at least Quintana and in this tour the Colombian was in a rather shaky form. Maybe he was happy where he was because the Alps didn't fare him well (Bettex stage).

As for the Tour. Some craziness was really fun thanks to Froome like his awkward but efficient descent or the "echelon" stage (in comparision with 2013 and even 2015 stages it was hardly an echelon stage imo) and this mess that was Ventoux this year (thx ASO as allways). Some breakaway wins seemed to be fine too i guess and it seems that people here like some of them too. Sadly propably the most important thing - battle between the favourites was rather lame. I would call that everyone exept Froome, one time Bardet and late Porte kind of lacked in sharpness. But that was propably thanks to Sky once again showing their inner US Postal for most of the race.

I have a slight problem with rating the race. I just don't like Bardet for some reason (he seems to me a bit obnoxious) while i really like younger Yates. If they would swap places in GC it's an instant 6 or more but as for now i'll stay with 5. Sadly GC was more shaped thanks to crashes that actuall racing but crashes are part of a pressure on descents - if somebody relevant attacks on the descent and it's a wet one then it's strongly implying there's a big chance of crashes even on rather easy roads like Saisies. Now wonder about Giro descents as most of the roads in Italy are much more twisty than in France. I would like to give the race more but sadly it suffered from the propably biggest flaw - for most of the time it was just boring.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Right. Getting top 4 in the top bike race in the world requires no ambition, just 'legs'. It's easy to say from the comfort of your sofa. The guys on the road, all of them, saw it differently.

It requires ambition of the "I'ma go outside and train for this bike race where I want to do well. Now I'm going to endure the pain and not let this group go" sort, which is remarkably different from "I have a shot at this hugely important goal but to go for it I have to take some risks".

The tired sofa cliché is ridiculous. People can criticize my work even when they don't do it themselves.

 

[jens_attacks]

6 , gave so much because of sagan,pantano, zakarin.