Remco Evenepoel

[F_Cance]

Quick-Step is not known as a GT GC-centric team, either. Nor as a team known for developing future GT winners. Not the most logical career choice, on first glance, but then again maybe it was.

of course it was and everyone knows why.

I don't think he's the only young rider who's that mature re: his future goals. It certainly doesn't explain his most recent wins.

That's true.

It's kinda interesting that Remco Evenepoel is -- and was -- way underpaid at DQS, if I understand Patrick Evenepoel's comments (re:Monaco) correcly.

I thought DQS outbid other teams regarding his salary and that it was* a lot for a rider at his age.

*as no one expected him to win San Sebastian and the EC ITT

 

[djerkson]

Lampaert is not one of the team's big stars. Alaphilippe and Evenepoel are the most marketable guys, by far. The only guys with a huge ROI. No one else comes close. (Gilbert is old and off to Lotto). Does the team have the money to supply every rider with designer drugs?

It's kinda interesting that Remco Evenepoel is -- and was -- way underpaid at DQS, if I understand Patrick Evenepoel's comments (re:Monaco) correcly. Given Remco's market value at the time - which had to have been huge already, it's certainly eyebrow-raising, if true. Remember when Taylor Phinney was making $1,000,000+ a year?

Quick-Step is not known as a GT GC-centric team, either. Nor as a team known for developing future GT winners. Not the most logical career choice, on first glance, but then again maybe it was.

I don't think he's the only young rider who's that mature re: his future goals. It certainly doesn't explain his most recent wins.

As for his girlfriend - we don't know what their relationship was like. It may not have been a big loss.

Of course DQS is the most logical choice. It's a team of winners and also professional. Tom Boonen used to be a councellor for Lotto in his first year after retirement. His words when quitting this job were: miles away from professionalism, no science, no tactic, no decent training etc.
You surely must think the guys from DQS of even Jumbo are taking the bus together, doping each other like in good old Lancetimes?
Ever since Deceuninck became co-sponsor, the focus was to have more Belgian cyclists in the team and also to build a team around a Belgian. They have found him in RE. Remarkable? No

Logical? Yes. So there goes your argument. I've just seen it fleeing down the street, if you're fast, you might catch it.

Underpaid? at 19? An age where 99,9 of all cyclists are still juniors or in -23? What a silly argument. sigh

Yes, Remco is the only young rider at age 19 who is that mature re:his future goals. Name me one other cyclist other than Pogacar? It's a dare

Concerning the girlfriend: his only focus right now is to become the best cyclist in the world. Everything in the way must go. That's professionalism and the guy is only 19.

So...I dare you and all the other haters here: give me 1 good argument the guy is a fraud.

 

[Danskebjerge]

What's suspicious here is really not Evenepoel. Or Van Aert. Or Van der Poel. It's that they are all young and come from the same country. If it were all a matter of talent and nothing else, then why so concentrated geographically?

No need to say, Belgium has been among the most doping-infected countries in cycling. (I could mention a guy like Frank Vandenbroucke...?)

To be fair, some of the riders I mentioned above did have good results as juniors too - and possibly strong genes (or maybe just good "advisers").

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I thought DQS outbid other teams regarding his salary and that it was* a lot for a rider at his age.

*as no one expected him to win San Sebastian and the EC ITT

He could have earned a multitude at Sky (literally x-times what he earns at DQS). His parents had talks with Quickstep, they were concerned about his well-being, especially his mother was very protective. Together they then chose for Quickstep, because they agreed to ease him in to pro cycling and tailor a schedule specifically for him.

 

[delgado]

What's suspicious here is really not Evenepoel. Or Van Aert. Or Van der Poel. It's that they are all young and come from the same country.

ouch.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What's suspicious here is really not Evenepoel. Or Van Aert. Or Van der Poel. It's that they are all young and come from the same country. If it were all a matter of talent and nothing else, then why so concentrated geographically?

No need to say, Belgium has been among the most doping-infected countries in cycling. (I could mention a guy like Frank Vandenbroucke...?)

To be fair, some of the riders I mentioned above did have good results as juniors too - and possibly strong genes (or maybe just good "advisers").

Well, if it's about doping/countries and not so much about talent, then maybe you can tell me why Mathieu is killing it wherever he goes, and why his older brother is suffering meeting the level of a 2nd rate domestique? And yes, van Aert's level was never the same as Mathieu when they were kids. Van Aert back then was a small, skinny kid who grew into being a beast of a man only when he turned 17-18. Which was also the time he started spanking the rest of the field. Evenepoel, as has been stated in both topics (clinic and RR) has been an anomaly since he was a child.

Also thanks for annexing The Netherlands for us. Too bad you didn't include Alaphilippe, we could have become a superpower.

But sure, Belgium had its fair share of issues i guess. Like France, Spain, Italy, The Netherlands, Portugal, Russia...

I could also say, that the four riders i mentioned, and that have made a big impression this year (Julian, Wout, Remco, Mathieu) have one other thing in common. None of them have followed the tried and true path of regular cycling training throughout their formative years. They are also white, and like coca cola.

 

[djerkson]

No need to say, Belgium has been among the most doping-infected countries in cycling. (I could mention a guy like Frank Vandenbroucke...?)

I could mention Rasmussen, Riis or Holm. Or Festina. Or US Postal. Or Rabobank. Or Lpr brakes starring di Luca. Or Telekom. Or Gerolsteiner with Kohl and Schumacher. How many Belgians do you count?

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

ouch.

Well, Van der Poel was born and raised in Belgium. He may be Dutch, but coming from Belgium is arguably true, probably also entourage-wise.

 

[brownbobby]

Lets be clear here...he isn't doing what he's doing because he's dedicated, makes sacrifices and trains hard. We used to hear that same resoning from a certain Texan!

The world is full of young kids with big dreams who make these kind of sacrifices but will never get anywhere near the level Remco is already at....his success so far is all about talent. Sure, talent without sacrifice and dedication is wasted talent...but without the talent in the first place it aint happening!

That's not to say i think he's doping. At this point i don't.

The point about the ABP is an interesting one....i don't think we would have seen the likes of Evenepoel, WVA, MVDP, or even Bernal making these kinds of impacts on the sport at such a young age 10-15 years ago...

So i'm being optimistic and believing that the sport has cleaned itself up, maybe not completely, but certainly enough for genuine talent to shine through.

 

[djerkson]

Well, Van der Poel was born and raised in Belgium. He may be Dutch, but coming from Belgium is arguably true, probably also entourage-wise.

No, also not entourage-wise. Dad Adri is his only entourage, since he has no trainer. Must Belgians cheer for Mathieu, but is by no means a Belgian guy. Neither is Pogacar nor Bernal, also incredible almost unbelievable riders according to this thread. Winning the tour at age 22 is madness as well but I belie e it as much as I believe in Remco.

 

[Parker]

What's suspicious here is really not Evenepoel. Or Van Aert. Or Van der Poel. It's that they are all young and come from the same country. If it were all a matter of talent and nothing else, then why so concentrated geographically?

They're geographically concentrated because you have because you have ignored riders from other countries.

Van Aert was born in 1994. The same year as Ackermann, Ewan, Politt, Lopez, Carthy, Ciccone and Gaviria

Younger riders include: Bernal, Mas, Pogacar, Gaudu, Sivakov, Asgreen.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Of course DQS is the most logical choice. It's a team of winners and also professional. Tom Boonen used to be a councellor for Lotto in his first year after retirement. His words when quitting this job were: miles away from professionalism, no science, no tactic, no decent training etc.
You surely must think the guys from DQS of even Jumbo are taking the bus together, doping each other like in good old Lancetimes?
Ever since Deceuninck became co-sponsor, the focus was to have more Belgian cyclists in the team and also to build a team around a Belgian. They have found him in RE. Remarkable? No

Still not sure how a team focused on sprints and classics would be a perfect fit for a guy who wants to become a multiple GT champ. DQS has zero experience in that regard. And yet the team is the perfect choice for Evenepoel when Sky/Ineos and other actually GT GC-centric teams were after his signature?

Of course it makes sense that Lefevere wanted him. That's - obviously - not the point.

So...I dare you and all the other haters here: give me 1 good argument the guy is a fraud.

"Mutant" level performances have always been a strong indicator of potential doping. It's the most likely explanation, by far. Evenepoel is for sure the most bizarre rider I've ever witnessed, considering his very young age. Sure, some riders are much more talented than others, but, at least up until two weeks ago, not to the point that a clean teenager can beat a field of seasoned pros, as he did in San Sebastian.

But of course that can be explained away because he dumped an Instagram model ...and trains like a madman (like so many other young riders).

Sure, he has never tested positive, as far as we know -- if that's what you mean. Neither has Usain Bolt.

 

[djerkson]

"Mutant" level performances have always been a strong indicator of potential doping. It's the most likely explanation, by far. Evenepoel is for sure the most bizarre rider I've ever witnessed, considering his very young age. Sure, some riders are much more talented than others, but, at least up until two weeks ago, not to the point that a clean teenager can beat a field of seasoned pros, as he did in San Sebastian.

But of course that can be explained away because he dumped an Instagram model ...and trains like a madman (like so many other young riders).

Sure, he has never tested positive, as far as we know -- if that's what you mean. Neither has Usain Bolt.

Ok, since you've taken the time to give a decent answer, I'll do the same So it can't be that he's a Messi (or a Ronaldo if you're suspicious of all the hormones Messi received when he was a kid) or a Mozart of cycling, simply brilliant by nature because of his physionomy? In all layers of society and sports there are brilliant people that exceed normal levels of performance. If I follow your opinion correctly, a Mozart or a Messi-person can't exist or is a mutant. History has proven mutants exist, because they're born brilliant. True, right? The fact you might say yes is that cycling has been one of the few sports that allowed normal riders to reach top levels in the past. If you were a normal guy, with the right stuff, you could become a champion a la Riis, Berzin or Furlan. We don't see these things anymore, at least not to that extent.
Remco didn't come from out of nowhere/ He was a top football player, captain of the youth teams of Anderlecht and PSV and of the young Belgian Devils. When they told him he was too small for football, he got on his bike, won and is still winning. He started winning the first day he rode a bike. He won everything in the 'junior-category' and now he had to adapt for a few months to reach top level in pro cycling. I'm seeing a logical pattern here. Riders as Van der Poel, Van Aert, Pogacar, Sivakov, Bernal are pushing cycling to a new level. I suggest you deal with it, cos they'll be here for many years to come, Remco on top. And yes, it's top sport, which always means flirting with borders and marginal gains. If we expect exceptional levels from sports, exceptional levels is what we get. And every now and then a wonderkid like Ronaldo in Football comes along. Untill I see evidence of the opposite, I'm a believer and I'm seeing a wonderkid at work.
Ps; I suggest you read everything. In the Andriatica Ionica race, he attacked on a mountain but he miscalculated. The peloton got him back and left him behind. This was the day before his stage victory. So, yes, he makes mistakes as he did in the tour of Turkey and in Romandy, which doesn't make him a superhuman in my opinion. He'll make mistakes again for sure, but he's a fast learner.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Ok, since you've taken the time to give a decent answer, I'll do the same


So it can't be that he's a Messi (or a Ronaldo if you're suspicious of all the hormones Messi received when he was a kid) or a Mozart of cycling, simply brilliant by nature because of his physionomy?

Yes, it's possible, I guess. The San Sebastian and EC ITT fields would have to be almost entirely clean, though, IMO.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that the current peloton is doped. To what extent is anyone's guess, but we "know" AICAR has made a comeback and that blood doping never left. Genetic doping is readily available to those that can afford it, or have a "personal sponsor" who can)

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Anyway, Evenepoel's trainer Koen Pelgrim is predictably playing up Remco's early season results - which were indeed very impressive, but, of course, nowhere near close to his more recent exploits - although that seems to be what he's saying:

Google translated

Pelgrim emphasizes that Evenepoel has already made an impression in his debut months. "He became the best youngster in San Juan in his first race. But he has developed step by step and that now pays off in results that appeal a little more than what he did at the start of the season."

link:

https://sporza.be/nl/2019/08/09/koen-pelgrim-over-remco-evenepoel/

Key quote: "results that appeal a little more"

I suggest you deal with it, cos they'll be here for many years to come, Remco on top

Oh, I know. I don't think any of those guys you mentioned will be sidelined by the authorities, either. Lots of money to be made off of them.

 

[djerkson]

I've read the Pelgrim-article as well. Indeed, it seems RE is surpassing expectations. Between the tour of Romandy and Hammer Series/the tour of Belgium, there's a significant difference in his performances. Is it because of his altitude training? Because of the weight loss? Because of the adaptation on pro level? We don't know. It seems natural to me seeing his dominance in the junior category and also given the professional environment (yes, I'm choosing my words rather carefully here) at DQS.

And indeed also, where there's money involved, authorities keep silent. As is the case with your nickname, Valverde was said to be protected by the royal family at the time where Spain was dominating all kinds of sports. Spain didn't even have an anti-doping agency until 2008 (!).

I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to the peloton nowadays, I need to do so if I still want to continue watching this sport I love so much. The fact that younsters can perform on the highest level, the fact that gaps never have been smaller (in ITT, mountain stages), the fact that talented guys like Tim Wellens (of who I'm 100% sure he's not doping) or Nibali can burn out during a race are indications something has changed. The Pantanis and the Riccos are gone (except maybe for the tour of Portugal). At least for me they are, but like I stated earlier, it's top sports, almost certain to touch borders and sometimes even beyond ("marginal gains").

 

[masking_agent]

I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.

LOL ! The best line for this thread !!

 

[hrotha]

It is a silly line. Armstrong's miracle wasn't his being a good and precocious classics rider, it was his magical transformation into the dominator of the Tour de France at age 28 after beating cancer despite never having been anywhere in GT GCs before. Evenepoel's case is not comparable at all, and it won't be even if he does go on to dominate cycling for years to come.

 

[red_flanders]

Key quote: "results that appeal a little more"

I don't know how much I'd make of that, it's very much in line with a typically Dutch or Belgian way of understating things.

 

[Socialist]

I've read the Pelgrim-article as well. Indeed, it seems RE is surpassing expectations. Between the tour of Romandy and Hammer Series/the tour of Belgium, there's a significant difference in his performances. Is it because of his altitude training? Because of the weight loss? Because of the adaptation on pro level? We don't know. It seems natural to me seeing his dominance in the junior category and also given the professional environment (yes, I'm choosing my words rather carefully here) at DQS.

And indeed also, where there's money involved, authorities keep silent. As is the case with your nickname, Valverde was said to be protected by the royal family at the time where Spain was dominating all kinds of sports. Spain didn't even have an anti-doping agency until 2008 (!).

I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to the peloton nowadays, I need to do so if I still want to continue watching this sport I love so much. The fact that younsters can perform on the highest level, the fact that gaps never have been smaller (in ITT, mountain stages), the fact that talented guys like Tim Wellens (of who I'm 100% sure he's not doping) or Nibali can burn out during a race are indications something has changed. The Pantanis and the Riccos are gone (except maybe for the tour of Portugal). At least for me they are, but like I stated earlier, it's top sports, almost certain to touch borders and sometimes even beyond ("marginal gains").

I am new here but i follow cycling even though i know they are doping.
I just love the scenery, nature, the many hours long tv-coverage, the point system, and the way the stages unfold ... and then i hate doping and all the lies.

I think what i hear you say is that you lie a tiny bit to yourself, to be able to watch it.
For me it was easier just to say, okay i know this guy is doping and some day he will be caught ... just count him out.
Armstrong, Floyd, Froome, Riis, Rasmussen, Contador.

By the time Riis was first accused, i did not have much knowledge of it, when Rasmussen was i knew he was a doper.

Just love what you do love, and then make a mental barrier of all the obvious cheats, of which Evenepoel sadly is perhaps the most obvious since Rasmussen, Riis, Armstrong, Contador and Froome.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

It’s amazing .... all the conspiracy theories.

This kid has been a top endurance athlete since he was a wee lad.

He’s been consistent in his performances and how he rides throughout his cycling career.

Yet there are countless examples of riders who have come out of nowhere and become top riders or completely deviated from their specialty and become top of the line talents in different specialities.

Could he be doping? Who the hell knows. However, the assumption that he is doping simply because he’s shown the same consistency throughout the year while cracking on a few times would lend itself to the idea that maybe just maybe he’s a prodigy and he was born to be a cyclist.

Strange, that Dennis doesn’t have a clinic thread near the top of the forum seeing that he literally disappeared for 2 months.

If you really want to ask the doping question, you should probably start there.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

It’s amazing .... all the conspiracy theories.

This kid has been a top endurance athlete since he was a wee lad.

He’s been consistent in his performances and how he rides throughout his cycling career.

Yet there are countless examples of riders who have come out of nowhere and become top riders or completely deviated from their specialty and become top of the line talents in different specialities.

Could he be doping? Who the hell knows. However, the assumption that he is doping simply because he’s shown the same consistency throughout the year while cracking on a few times would lend itself to the idea that maybe just maybe he’s a prodigy and he was born to be a cyclist.

Strange, that Dennis doesn’t have a clinic thread near the top of the forum seeing that he literally disappeared for 2 months.

If you really want to ask the doping question, you should probably start there.

Everyone knows there was an equipment issue and thats why he pulled out of le tour because they were going to embarrass him on a professional level with financial implications if he had to use their crap bike. Also hes a grown man Dennis isn't like 12.

 

[Red Rick]

It’s amazing .... all the conspiracy theories.

This kid has been a top endurance athlete since he was a wee lad.

He’s been consistent in his performances and how he rides throughout his cycling career.

Yet there are countless examples of riders who have come out of nowhere and become top riders or completely deviated from their specialty and become top of the line talents in different specialities.

Could he be doping? Who the hell knows. However, the assumption that he is doping simply because he’s shown the same consistency throughout the year while cracking on a few times would lend itself to the idea that maybe just maybe he’s a prodigy and he was born to be a cyclist.

Strange, that Dennis doesn’t have a clinic thread near the top of the forum seeing that he literally disappeared for 2 months.

If you really want to ask the doping question, you should probably start there.

Being a prodigy and being a doper aren't mutually exclusive. In fact I think it's incredibly likely he's both.

It's not like Eddy Merckx was clean. But everyone always conveniently forgets he got popped 3 times.

 

[Singularitarian]

And now for something completely different: Remco's blatant sock doping... totally open, no attempt to do it somehow covertly - says something about the attitude of "the industry" towards the rules, whatever nature they are.

Strangely, it looks like the situation is totally diffent on the upper body (Remco's short sleeves suggest they are not that worried about aero - unlike others).

Did anyone else try something like this (or other rule pushing ideas)?

 

[proffate]

And now for something completely different: Remco's blatant sock doping... totally open, no attempt to do it somehow covertly - says something about the attitude of "the industry" towards the rules, whatever nature they are.

Strangely, it looks like the situation is totally diffent on the upper body (Remco's short sleeves suggest they are not that worried about aero - unlike others).

Did anyone else try something like this (or other rule pushing ideas)?

I have no idea what you're talking about with sock doping. He's wearing high booties. They (i.e. most everyone) use high aero socks on the track, high aero booties on the road. Thems the rules, although they don't make any sense. Domoulin and Campenaerts push it the farthest imo.

And I see plenty of short sleeves including Dennis, Dowsett, Campanaerts, and others. As long as the sleeves cover the complete upper arm, they're just as aero as full sleeves. The funny textures don't matter for the forearms due to their orientation in the aero bars (i.e. the wind is not slamming into them perpendicularly, unlike the upper arms or shins).