Remco Evenepoel

[therealthing]

I was wondering last year if maybe he was doping on a level way more professional than any other junior rider, as an explanation for how he could dominated those ranks like he did. But now I can't really imagine him being on a better program than all those other pros he is racing against. This is just so weird. Tbf I didn't watch the race and I don't know what led to him getting such an advantage but in previous years it seemed absolutely impossible to win San Sebastian with an attack before the final climb and now I'm supposed to not find it suspicious when a 19 year old does it?

I'll refer you to these Tweets that go through what he did in the last hour: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1157679807624351744?s=19

I just don't know how a 19 year old who has barely even been riding can be this much better than everyone else.

 

[Red Rick]

I was wondering last year if maybe he was doping on a level way more professional than any other junior rider, as an explanation for how he could dominated those ranks like he did. But now I can't really imagine him being on a better program than all those other pros he is racing against. This is just so weird. Tbf I didn't watch the race and I don't know what led to him getting such an advantage but in previous years it seemed absolutely impossible to win San Sebastian with an attack before the final climb and now I'm supposed to not find it suspicious when a 19 year old does it?

I mean, physiological freak + QS program is the only explanation.

Also, tactical stuff.

 

[Singularitarian]

Remco EvenEPOel ... even EPO cannot explain this!

 

[saganftw]

no reason to draw a lot of conclusions from one day, maybe he was on a good day where everything went perfect for him, including oponents underestimating him and playing tactical games

however if this is new reality then who are we kidding...after gilbert rvv and alaphillipe tour, who in their right mind wouldnt come to the right conclusion

 

[Koronin]

He very well could have been on better stuff than the other Juniors (and some of the Juniors likely aren't on anything at all) and now he's on DQS's program which we know is near if not at the top and has been for at least 2-3 years now. Yes I think it's possible not all the Juniors are on anything as this goes back to the early 2000's and Spain where it was known that some of the Junior and amateur teams were not doping while other ones were.

 

[Cookster15]

Well maybe this does not look good for Julian Alaphillipe's Tour form. DQS again. Then again I do think Evenepoel is an amazing talent dope or no dope. We should also consider he is only 61Kg. He should be capable of climbing mountains. So this is only the beginning if he keeps his head straight.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

Remco EvenEPOel ... even EPO cannot explain this!

Amazing what actual talent looks like after watching decades of EPO fueled frauds.

 

[Huapango]

Re: Re:

Remco EvenEPOel ... even EPO cannot explain this!

Amazing what actual talent looks like after watching decades of EPO fueled frauds.

I agree.

 

[the delgados]

If anyone thinks this guy is clean, you must assume that every director and rider decided that doping is a bad idea. Sure, the guy is massively talented and knows how to ride a bike, but no way is he fueled on Cornflakes and pasta alone.

 

[F_Cance]

What i don't understand is that he was dropped two times (ok, they later said the first one was a mechanical, who knows, but it looked like just getting dropped) and still won. He wasn't able to follow the Peloton on the first Murgil ascent and made it then back on the flat section between the two ascents and followed Skujins attack.
Not sure when the last time was i saw something like that and i don't think that "i wasn't feeling good, but then the legs got better" is a sufficient explanation.

 

[Panda Claws]

I don't see how him dropping and still winning has anything to do with doping. It is weird sure, but how could you explain it through doping.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I don't see how him dropping and still winning has anything to do with doping. It is weird sure, but how could you explain it through doping.

Motordoping maybe?

 

[Panda Claws]

But he did not have a bike change.

It is not impossible. But I don't see him dropping and still winning in the end as pointing towards any kind of doping. Sure, he could be moterdoping but how would him dropping at first be a sign of that?

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

I don't see how him dropping and still winning has anything to do with doping. It is weird sure, but how could you explain it through doping.

Motordoping maybe?

The kid is 19, with exactly zero experience measuring his efforts in a race like this. The obvious explanation, not that there even needs to be one, is that he went into the red and recovered.

Certainly we’ve seen performances which are incredibly suspicious, with bizarre accelerations (Poels, Cancellara, Froome, others) but there was nothing like that here.

I think people are being confused by actual talent, it’s been so long since we’ve seen it. Is he clean? Who knows, but this performance doesn’t shed new light on that, he’s been riding pros off his wheels from the front all summer. There is zero evidence of motor doping. Let’s not lose our minds here folks.

If and when we see evidence of motto doping like he starts accelerating wildly uphill while seated or trying to catch up with the speed of his pedals, it’s time to ask such question but there was nothing like this.

 

[Koronin]

He rides for DQS, there is no way he's clean. That doesn't mean he doesn't have talent.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

But he did not have a bike change.

It is not impossible. But I don't see him dropping and still winning in the end as pointing towards any kind of doping. Sure, he could be moterdoping but how would him dropping at first be a sign of that?

I think it’s extremely convincing evidence that he wasn’t, not that there’s any reason to suspect that he was.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

But he did not have a bike change.

It is not impossible. But I don't see him dropping and still winning in the end as pointing towards any kind of doping. Sure, he could be moterdoping but how would him dropping at first be a sign of that?

Not an expert on motor doping but I just kinda thought that those motors wouldn't be running for the whole race. That would explain him only being so strong in parts of the race.

Anyway, I don't actually think he is motordoping. I think that's just super difficult to pull off nowadays. It's just that this would be the only doping related explanation I could come up with for dropping at first before destroying everyone later.

 

[Singer01]

I keep reading about this half marathon ran without prep as evidence of his being some super talent. What was the standard, size of the field etc? Because I used to run cross country to a decent standard (6th in NE England), without ever training specifically for it, just using my football and rugby fitness. i'm not sure its necessarily a massive indicator of a super level of fitness that everyone else thinks it is.
My Cousin did even better, winning the NE England race and coming top 10 for the UK, also using only fitness from other sports.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

I keep reading about this half marathon ran without prep as evidence of his being some super talent. What was the standard, size of the field etc? Because I used to run cross country to a decent standard (6th in NE England), without ever training specifically for it, just using my football and rugby fitness. i'm not sure its necessarily a massive indicator of a super level of fitness that everyone else thinks it is.
My Cousin did even better, winning the NE England race and coming top 10 for the UK, also using only fitness from other sports.

High school cross country is 5km (or it was when I was running a long time ago). I was very similar to you, could run CC and 1500m at a high level just based on rugby fitness, but I don't think that would have translated to a half marathon.

 

[topcat]

Re: Re:

I keep reading about this half marathon ran without prep as evidence of his being some super talent. What was the standard, size of the field etc? Because I used to run cross country to a decent standard (6th in NE England), without ever training specifically for it, just using my football and rugby fitness. i'm not sure its necessarily a massive indicator of a super level of fitness that everyone else thinks it is.
My Cousin did even better, winning the NE England race and coming top 10 for the UK, also using only fitness from other sports.

High school cross country is 5km (or it was when I was running a long time ago). I was very similar to you, could run CC and 1500m at a high level just based on rugby fitness, but I don't think that would have translated to a half marathon.

School CC was 5 km when I did it also. I also did two marathons before I was 16. Training consisted of kicking a ball around with my friends. You and Singer both had natural talent. Oh, what might have been.
Remco is the biggest natural talent we've seen for a long time, even more talented than our tdf hero.

 

[GuntherL]

Re:

He very well could have been on better stuff than the other Juniors (and some of the Juniors likely aren't on anything at all) and now he's on DQS's program which we know is near if not at the top and has been for at least 2-3 years now. Yes I think it's possible not all the Juniors are on anything as this goes back to the early 2000's and Spain where it was known that some of the Junior and amateur teams were not doping while other ones were.

Some questions:
- Why was he the only Belgian junior who excelled like this?
- If DQS's program is so good, why did Mas disappoint in the TdF? Why was Viviani outsprinted by Ewan? Why didn't Alaphilippe hang on to his lead? (his top ten position was only saved by the cancellation of cols in the Alps).

 

[GuntherL]

Re:

I keep reading about this half marathon ran without prep as evidence of his being some super talent. What was the standard, size of the field etc? Because I used to run cross country to a decent standard (6th in NE England), without ever training specifically for it, just using my football and rugby fitness. i'm not sure its necessarily a massive indicator of a super level of fitness that everyone else thinks it is.
My Cousin did even better, winning the NE England race and coming top 10 for the UK, also using only fitness from other sports.

Standard and size of the field are not relevant. Speed is.
Look at the average speed. 10.4 mph (16.6 kph)

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

I think people are being confused by actual talent, it’s been so long since we’ve seen it. Is he clean? Who knows, but this performance doesn’t shed new light on that, he’s been riding pros off his wheels from the front all summer. There is zero evidence of motor doping. Let’s not lose our minds here folks.

I hope it's true, Remco, MvP, Pogacar, Bernal, Van Aert; does genuine talent shine again in cycling?

I want to believe it's real, but it's difficult.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He very well could have been on better stuff than the other Juniors (and some of the Juniors likely aren't on anything at all) and now he's on DQS's program which we know is near if not at the top and has been for at least 2-3 years now. Yes I think it's possible not all the Juniors are on anything as this goes back to the early 2000's and Spain where it was known that some of the Junior and amateur teams were not doping while other ones were.

Some questions:
- Why was he the only Belgian junior who excelled like this?
- If DQS's program is so good, why did Mas disappoint in the TdF? Why was Viviani outsprinted by Ewan? Why didn't Alaphilippe hang on to his lead? (his top ten position was only saved by the cancellation of cols in the Alps).

With Mas he was sick for a few stages of the Tour and nothing is going to save you when you get sick.

Sprinting is sprinting and there are multiple factors aside from doping that factor into winning any specific stage. The reason for Alaphilippe doping being fairly obvious is simply because he should NEVER have been able to hang onto the jersey for as long as he did in the first place. Without the doping he would have lost the yellow jersey long before he finally dropped. No matter the doping program it can only cover so much. Alaphilippe WITHOUT the doping should NOT have been in the top 5 by the end of the Pyrenees forget the Alps. We've seen time and again in 1 week stage races he always drops minutes on the first major mountain stage.

 

[GuntherL]

Re: Re:

He very well could have been on better stuff than the other Juniors (and some of the Juniors likely aren't on anything at all) and now he's on DQS's program which we know is near if not at the top and has been for at least 2-3 years now. Yes I think it's possible not all the Juniors are on anything as this goes back to the early 2000's and Spain where it was known that some of the Junior and amateur teams were not doping while other ones were.

Some questions:
- Why was he the only Belgian junior who excelled like this?
- If DQS's program is so good, why did Mas disappoint in the TdF? Why was Viviani outsprinted by Ewan? Why didn't Alaphilippe hang on to his lead? (his top ten position was only saved by the cancellation of cols in the Alps).

With Mas he was sick for a few stages of the Tour and nothing is going to save you when you get sick.

Sprinting is sprinting and there are multiple factors aside from doping that factor into winning any specific stage. The reason for Alaphilippe doping being fairly obvious is simply because he should NEVER have been able to hang onto the jersey for as long as he did in the first place. Without the doping he would have lost the yellow jersey long before he finally dropped. No matter the doping program it can only cover so much. Alaphilippe WITHOUT the doping should NOT have been in the top 5 by the end of the Pyrenees forget the Alps. We've seen time and again in 1 week stage races he always drops minutes on the first major mountain stage.

"Sprinting is sprinting." Possibly the most epic outburst of stupidity on any cycling forum ever. Who do you think will sprint better after a 200 km stage at 45 km/h? The 'prepared' guy or the other one?
Mas: Where's your source that he was sick?
Alaphilippe: Speculation. He never had to defend a yellow jersey in the past. Putting your claims in upper case doesn't grant you any credibility.