Remco Evenepoel

[Akuryo]

I mean, the notion that a 16 year old Football talent from a decent football nation is probably already on more professional stuff that cyclists in his age group sounds reasonable to me.

In most European countries football is the number one thing what every athlete wants to be. But also the sport with probably the least testing for doping. If they don't test at all and pretty much everyone wants one of the few spots available it becomes very clear very soon that they are all juiced up to the gills in that sport...

 

[Panda Claws]

Does it give a large advantage to start doping at let's say age 14 compared to starting the programme at let's say age 16?

If so, since the given assumption is that clean riders can't compete, doesn't that mean that in practice every worldbeater has to have been doping since that same young age? Then this discussion does not seem overly relevant.
Or is the idea that some young talents (perhaps Pogacar as an example) began doping a few years later but are just that much more talented that they can win it all nonetheless? If so, could Pogacar have feasibly been even better?

 

[Amazinmets87]

Could there be something going on other than Covid? Was a withdrawal mandatory?

 

[Nick2413]

Could there be something going on other than Covid? Was a withdrawal mandatory?

In this case I’d be surprised, but definitely not impossible. No doubt this excuse will be or has been used for clinic related stuff by some.

 

[Mayomaniac]

In this case I’d be surprised, but definitely not impossible. No doubt this excuse will be or has been used for clinic related stuff by some.

Yeah, in this case it sounds legit, but I agree with you on the fact that Covid might be the new "get out of jail free card" if something goes wrong with your "preparation".

 

[Rackham]

Getting sick (or crashing) has always been a part of GT racing. Covid throws an extra curveball into the mix but by & large Quick-Step have handled Evenepoel's recent months abominably.

His 8 day Giro misadventure is one for the history books, i.e. too much talk (what the hell was is "Rog is nervous" casual interview with Philippe Gilbert on French Eurosport?), too much drama (gesturing to his team car after his own crash on Wednesday), pointless sprint at altitude on Friday at Grand Sasso & then a whole bunch of other trivialities in his preparation, mostly in relation to a weird fixation on Roglič like "I beat him in a sprint" or "we know how to beat Rog in the mountains" after Catalunya stage 3.

I could write a wall of text here about Evenepoel but right now his own country & his fans are like an albatross around his neck, i.e. with insane expectations considering his actual GT experience. I mentioned Philippe Gilbert above because he's also another one who seems to have suspended his brain when it comes to Evenepoel, i.e. like yesterday claiming Rog got moto pacing which he called 'scandalous'. It was a proper meltdown based on nothing more than fanboy-esque anxiety fuelling a misrepresentation of something which didn't happen. It's weirdness like that which all adds to the constant quasi circus surrounding Evenepoel when he races.

And it's ironically unrelated to doping. I mean doped or not doped, when all these media people, former riders, fans & his own team are spewing nonsense & putting nutty pressure on him, it's no surprise things go to sh*t real fast.

 

[ppanther92]

Could there be something going on other than Covid? Was a withdrawal mandatory?

I am not saying that such pull outs are not a thing categorically but I mean he was riding all Friday with long sleeves and at least GCN commentators wondered already if he was feeling unwell, then Saturday and Sunday performance level dropped. So in my mind it is quite clear that he indeed was feeling not well and it didn't go away either and thats when they decided to test him. So I have very little doubt that this is a legit case of sickness tbh.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Could there be something going on other than Covid? Was a withdrawal mandatory?

If we're going to get into this level of batshit crazy conspiracy theories could we please atleast make a bit of an effort and not always go straight to the Secret Ban?

Let's take the UCI. They were miffed the other day at people flying off Gran Sasso in helicopters. It doesn't look good for cycling's attempts to greenwash itself into a climate-friendly sport. So they've decided to send a signal to the riders and the teams. They hired a Covid Mary to infect Evenepoel.

Or, in the grand tradition of two swallows making a summer, TGH did it. He's got form, look at 2020. He's meant to be fetching water bottles for G and G mysteriously crashes into a water bottle and out of the Giro. Other potential GC contenders - Vlasov, Lopez - mysteriously left the race while riders like Kruijswijk and Yates came down with the lurgi, just like Evenepoel this year. The only question is does TGH infect his rivals himself or does he hire someone else to do it for him?

Secret bans? Lazy thinking.

 

[Extinction]

Getting sick (or crashing) has always been a part of GT racing. Covid throws an extra curveball into the mix but by & large Quick-Step have handled Evenepoel's recent months abominably.

His 8 day Giro misadventure is one for the history books, i.e. too much talk (what the hell was is "Rog is nervous" casual interview with Philippe Gilbert on French Eurosport?), too much drama (gesturing to his team car after his own crash on Wednesday), pointless sprint at altitude on Friday at Grand Sasso & then a whole bunch of other trivialities in his preparation, mostly in relation to a weird fixation on Roglič like "I beat him in a sprint" or "we know how to beat Rog in the mountains" after Catalunya stage 3.

I could write a wall of text here about Evenepoel but right now his own country & his fans are like an albatross around his neck, i.e. with insane expectations considering his actual GT experience. I mentioned Philippe Gilbert above because he's also another one who seems to have suspended his brain when it comes to Evenepoel, i.e. like yesterday claiming Rog got moto pacing which he called 'scandalous'. It was a proper meltdown based on nothing more than fanboy-esque anxiety fuelling a misrepresentation of something which didn't happen. It's weirdness like that which all adds to the constant quasi circus surrounding Evenepoel when he races.

And it's ironically unrelated to doping. I mean doped or not doped, when all these media people, former riders, fans & his own team are spewing nonsense & putting nutty pressure on him, it's no surprise things go to sh*t real fast.

So what does any of your vitriol have to do with Evenepoel coming down with Covid? He didn't get sick because of how Soudal has managed him, but because he caught a virus that's still circulating. You use his early exit from the race, which was caused by a viral infection, merely as a false pretence to attack the rider for totally unrelated things, because you simply don't like him. If that's not called trolling, then I don't know what is.

 

[Netserk]

I am not saying that such pull outs are not a thing categorically but I mean he was riding all Friday with long sleeves and at least GCN commentators wondered already if he was feeling unwell, then Saturday and Sunday performance level dropped. So in my mind it is quite clear that he indeed was feeling not well and it didn't go away either and thats when they decided to test him. So I have very little doubt that this is a legit case of sickness tbh.

He was also the only rider with leggings in stage 5, I think.

I doubt he was ill then.

 

[Rackham]

So what does any of your vitriol have to do with Evenepoel coming down with Covid? He didn't get sick because of how Soudal has managed him, but because he caught a virus that's still circulating. You use his early exit from the race, which was caused by a viral infection, merely as a false pretence to attack the rider for totally unrelated things, because you simply don't like him. If that's not called trolling, then I don't know what is.

Nothing I posted is trolling. But it doesn't matter because that's how some of you will interpret it anyway. I think his fans need to take a step back & take a long hard look in the mirror, ditto his team. I mean what the hell was his Giro? It was a circus.

Failed attempts at mind games? Check. Self inflicted crashes? Check. Constant hysteria from the media & his fanbase? Check.

If he wants to win the TdF he needs a complete strategy rethink. Covid was merely the icing on a sh*tcake which Soudal Quick-Step baked themselves.

 

[Netserk]

If we're going to get into this level of batshit crazy conspiracy theories could we please atleast make a bit of an effort and not always go straight to the Secret Ban?

Let's take the UCI. They were miffed the other day at people flying off Gran Sasso in helicopters. It doesn't look good for cycling's attempts to greenwash itself into a climate-friendly sport. So they've decided to send a signal to the riders and the teams. They hired a Covid Mary to infect Evenepoel.

Or, in the grand tradition of two swallows making a summer, TGH did it. He's got form, look at 2020. He's meant to be fetching water bottles for G and G mysteriously crashes into a water bottle and out of the Giro. Other potential GC contenders - Vlasov, Lopez - mysteriously left the race while riders like Kruijswijk and Yates came down with the lurgi, just like Evenepoel this year. The only question is does TGH infect his rivals himself or does he hire someone else to do it for him?

Secret bans? Lazy thinking.

Secret bans? I think "Was a withdrawal mandatory?" was a question about covid protocol.

 

[Extinction]

Nothing I posted is trolling. But it doesn't matter because that's how some of you will interpret it anyway. I think his fans need to take a step back & take a long hard look in the mirror, ditto his team. I mean what the hell was his Giro? It was a circus.

Failed attempts at mind games? Check. Self inflicted crashes? Check. Constant hysteria from the media & his fanbase? Check.

If he wants to win the TdF he needs a complete strategy rethink. Covid was merely the icing on a sh*tcake which Soudal Quick-Step baked themselves.

Again Covid is a mere pretence for the litany of negativity, which only expresses the underlying purpose of your cause: to mock and brash Remco and his team. You thus cannot, or shouldn't be taken seriously. As there is no logical connection between catching Covid and the rest of your diatribe, the exclusive point of which is to troll.

 

[entre nous]

Remco and his entourage are constructing hubristic (but very lucrative) worlds "remco=mercx" and using those realities some pundits are now doubting the covid story and claiming "covid story=chickening out" or "covid story=doping going awry".

 

[Rackham]

Again Covid is a mere pretence for the litany of negativity, which only expresses the underlying purpose of your cause: to mock and brash Remco and his team. You thus cannot, or shouldn't be taken seriously. As there is no logical connection between catching Covid and the rest of your diatribe, the point of which is merely to troll.

It's a bit hilarious that you go on the offensive against me here... in a thread in which multiple people literally say Remco Evenepoel is a doper. I mean what gives?

My post was merely a realistic assessment of the how & where Quick-Step & Evenepoel himself went totally wrong with this Giro with problems ironically utterly unrelated to doping. Covid isn't an isolated incident because there's a sh*t load of nonsense which has been brewing for weeks now.

Blaming others after his crash on Wednesday before retracting those comments, claiming Roglič was 'nervous' on French Eurosport in an interview with Philippe Gilbert before retracting the comments the following day as well (rather disingenuously as well), boasting about winning sprints versus Rog, dropping Rog on a climb in Catalunya etc. etc.

It's all B.S. & added to the circus. His fans & media fuelled this as well & your hyper sensitivity (in a clinic thread!!!) is just more evidence of this.

 

[Extinction]

It's a bit hilarious that you go on the offensive against me here... in a thread in which multiple people literally say Remco Evenepoel is a doper. I mean what gives?

My post was merely a realistic assessment of the how & where Quick-Step & Evenepoel himself went totally wrong with this Giro with problems ironically utterly unrelated to doping. Covid isn't an isolated incident because there's a sh*t load of nonsense which has been brewing for weeks now.

Blaming others after his crash on Wednesday before retracting those comments, claiming Roglič was 'nervous' on French Eurosport in an interview with Philippe Gilbert before retracting the comments the following day as well (rather disingenuously as well), boasting about winning sprints versus Rog, dropping Rog on a climb in Catalunya etc. etc.

It's all B.S. & added to the circus. His fans & media fuelled this as well & your hyper sensitivity (in a clinic thread!!!) is just more evidence of this.

You only repeat the same litany, which is boring and totally unrelated to the clinical issues of this thread. And even if you view his Covid case as a mere ruse to exit the race before getting caught for doping, which is pure unsubstantiated conspiracy theory, you haven't stated so. At any rate, it's not related to the otherwise hurl of insults. If you think the Covid positive was a fabrication to cover up doping, then man up and say so and then provide evidence for your case. All the rest is only obfuscation for not having an argument.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Secret bans? I think "Was a withdrawal mandatory?" was a question about covid protocol.

The "Could there be something going on other than Covid?" bit was not about protocols.

 

[ppanther92]

He was also the only rider with leggings in stage 5, I think.

I doubt he was ill then.

Ok, fair.

 

[Netserk]

The "Could there be something going on other than Covid?" bit was not about protocols.

But was it about secret bans? No reason to think so.

 

[fmk_RoI]

But was it about secret bans? No reason to think so.

This is the Clinic. There's every reason to think so.

 

[entre nous]

@ extinction

The argument line I see in Rackham's post I tried to encapsulate above.

The Remco base and RE himself have seriously compromised a rational approach to his deeds.

Is he the biggest thing in cycling since Eddy? Is he better than all the riders with bigger palmarès? WELL, MAYBE

Has he really contracted the virus? Or is it just another PR show? WELL, MAYBE

 

[Rackham]

You only repeat the same litany, which is boring and totally unrelated to the clinical issues of this thread. And even if you view his Covid case as a mere ruse to exit the race before getting caught for doping, which is pure unsubstantiated conspiracy theory, you haven't stated so. At any rate, it's not related to the otherwise hurl of insults. If you think the Covid positive was a fabrication to cover up doping, then man up and say so and then provide evidence for your case. All the rest is only obfuscation for not having an argument.

Despite my reply here I'm not exactly having an argument with someone like you because everything posted with even just a whisper of criticism of Evenepoel is automatically portrayed as 'hate' & 'insults'.

Your defense of Evenepoel is zealous & it makes a discussion impossible. You also attempt to pigeonhole my viewpoint in order to dismiss my opinion.

And I have no freaking clue if Covid is a cover up. No one does. All I know is Quick-Step & Evenepoel screwed-up in this Giro on multiple fronts, be it tactically, in their preparation or in terms of their communication. It was a clown show & his dramatic exit was not surprising considering what preceded it.

The clinic thread exists to question matters more openly & quite frankly 99% of doping related comments are nothing more than unsubstantiated conspiracy theories anyway. It is the nature of this part of the forum.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Remco could have called Roglič words like ignition key or house plant, or claimed himself to be the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but it wouldn't have had any influence on why he now can't win this Giro, unless he got Covid from speaking to the/a French press.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Can you get Covid from speaking to a French press? Maybe TGH spoke to it before Remco and he infected it. He's sneaky like that, is TGH. Pretends he drinks tea but secretly he's infecting coffee machines.

 

[Extinction]

Despite my reply here I'm not exactly having an argument with someone like you because everything posted with even just a whisper of criticism of Evenepoel is automatically portrayed as 'hate' & 'insults'.

Your defense of Evenepoel is zealous & it makes a discussion impossible. You also attempt to pigeonhole my viewpoint in order to dismiss my opinion.

And I have no freaking clue if Covid is a cover up. No one does. All I know is Quick-Step & Evenepoel screwed-up in this Giro on multiple fronts, be it tactically, in their preparation or in terms of their communication. It was a clown show & his dramatic exit was not surprising considering what preceded it.

The clinic thread exists to question matters more openly & quite frankly 99% of doping related comments are nothing more than unsubstantiated conspiracy theories anyway. It is the nature of this part of the forum.

And what, pray tell, does any of this have to do with the clinical issues related to this thread? I fail to see any relevance. I'm interested in sound arguments about doping here, not petty character attacks.