Remco Evenepoel

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red_flanders said:
Cookster15 said:
I tend to agree Remco is a freak talent but the arm warmer defence is a little weak. Yes sunscreen wears off but as any sailor or surfer can tell you most good quality sunscreens are formulated to last over 4 hours in water and are perspiration resistant.

For racing in hot weather sunscreen is a far better option to prevent sunburn than arm warmers which retain heat and heighten risk of dehydration. Personally I could think of nothing worse than wearing arm warmers in hot weather and I am fair skinned.

At the very least I think Remco has been poorly advised to wear arm warmers rather than use good sunscreen.
I'm a surfer. There is no sunscreen that doesn't wear off in a couple of hours. But this is irrelevant.

I'm suggesting there are simple explanations that don't involve a team doping the biggest teenage prospect to come down the pike in a decade or more, for some meaningless early season race where he isn't the leader, and that the only way they could figure out how to dope him was to leave track marks in his arm, because he's injecting so frequently he needs arm warmers to cover the scars. And that he's the only one.

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense.
What I wrote makes perfect sense if you think about it. I am not at all saying Evenepoel is hiding needle marks just arguing that there are better ways to prevent sunburn than arm warmers in very hot weather. I was a surfer and come from a family with still active surfers.

A quick Google search will reveal sunscreen that does not easily come off - including perspiration. Example: Banana Boat Ultra Tube 50+. 4 hrs water resistant. It works. Plus you could reapply mid race from a small tube in the back pocket of your racing jersey if you are that worried. Less inconvenience than a feed break. The sun is also a lot stronger in Australia than Holland. Change your brand. What makes no sense is hampering the ability of your body to shed heat in a sport like cycling. The surface area of your arms is a good radiator. Not so if your cover them with arm warmers in 40C heat. I could personally think of nothing worse.
 
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CTQ said:
https://sleefs.com/blogs/news/51939585-6-compression-arm-sleeve-s-benefits-that-you-need-to-know:

helps regulate your body temperature
When you are playing a sport that is outside, the compression sleeve also helps regulate your body temperature. No matter if it is hot or cold outside it helps keep your body temperature regular so that you are not as affected by the temperature as other athletes.
Thank you. I was just about to post same thing. Somebody has some sense.
 
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veganrob said:
CTQ said:
https://sleefs.com/blogs/news/51939585-6-compression-arm-sleeve-s-benefits-that-you-need-to-know:

helps regulate your body temperature
When you are playing a sport that is outside, the compression sleeve also helps regulate your body temperature. No matter if it is hot or cold outside it helps keep your body temperature regular so that you are not as affected by the temperature as other athletes.
Thank you. I was just about to post same thing. Somebody has some sense.
It is actually counter intuitive not really about common sense at all. But I appreciate the link by CTQ. I guess I will have to give it a try next summer :). But it has always been my tendency to take arm warmers off once it gets over about 20C or so.

But in relation to Remco I think we have debunked the idea that him wearing arm warmers has any sinister connotations.
 
No sunscreen lasts 4 hours in water; if you're spending a life outside, proper sun protection makes a lot of sense; there are dozens of sun sleeve products out there designed for UV protection with minimal impact on body temperature; you could imagine that a well-fitted sleeve would improve aerodynamics in the same way as shaving one's arms or using a long sleeve skinsuit. The bigger question in my mind is why no one else is doing it.
 
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Cookster15 said:
veganrob said:
CTQ said:
https://sleefs.com/blogs/news/51939585-6-compression-arm-sleeve-s-benefits-that-you-need-to-know:

helps regulate your body temperature
When you are playing a sport that is outside, the compression sleeve also helps regulate your body temperature. No matter if it is hot or cold outside it helps keep your body temperature regular so that you are not as affected by the temperature as other athletes.
Thank you. I was just about to post same thing. Somebody has some sense.
It is actually counter intuitive not really about common sense at all. But I appreciate the link by CTQ. I guess I will have to give it a try next summer :). But it has always been my tendency to take arm warmers off once it gets over about 20C or so.

But in relation to Remco I think we have debunked the idea that him wearing arm warmers has any sinister connotations.
They are not arm warmers. They are compression that regulates temperature and protects from sun. There are several companies that make them. Look at IM competitors. Again, NOT arm warmers!
 
Okay veganrob, compression sleeves are not arm warmers got it. But I am still sceptical these things somehow keep you cooler than air flowing over sweating skin in very hot weather since that works on the same concept as any air conditioner. But anyhow.

As for proffate's reply, like I said sunscreen is easily reapplied. But the last sentence is what I wonder - "The bigger question in my mind is why no one else is doing it" :Question: Exactly my thoughts.

I don't see the entire peloton dominated by compression sleeves on hot days in July or during 40C+ heat in the TDU. My experience is compression sleeve cooling effect is mostly hype and PR not scientifically proven reality. A view reinforced by what I see almost the entire peloton wearing on hot days (or not wearing).

We are drifting off topic but as I mentioned I don't think Remco's choice of arm-wear is suspicious merely another aspect of his relative inexperience.
 
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Cookster15 said:
Okay veganrob, compression sleeves are not arm warmers got it. But I am still sceptical these things somehow keep you cooler than air flowing over sweating skin in very hot weather since that works on the same concept as any air conditioner. But anyhow.

As for proffate's reply, like I said sunscreen is easily reapplied. But the last sentence is what I wonder - "The bigger question in my mind is why no one else is doing it" :Question: Exactly my thoughts.

I don't see the entire peloton dominated by compression sleeves on hot days in July or during 40C+ heat in the TDU. My experience is compression sleeve cooling effect is mostly hype and PR not scientifically proven reality. A view reinforced by what I see almost the entire peloton wearing on hot days (or not wearing).

We are drifting off topic but as I mentioned I don't think Remco's choice of arm-wear is suspicious merely another aspect of his relative inexperience.
All of my sentiments, exactly. While i haven't researched them much, I suspect there's a lot of hype over compression sleeves. If they're so effective, why wouldn't riders--and marathoners, and other endurance athletes--wear body suits of the material? I definitely don't see them as necessary to avoid sunburn; I've never had a problem with lotion lasting long hours, and as others have said, it's not that difficult to reapply.

All that said, the notion that RE is wearing these sleeves to cover up needle marks is Clinic conspiracy theory at its finest. This is the problem with going long periods of time when no well-known rider tests positive; we end up with discussions like this. We definitely need another Froome-type case this year to get the focus back on where it belongs. I like Tom, but if he suddenly had passport problems, it would do wonders for the level of discussion around here.
 
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Cookster15 said:
Okay veganrob, compression sleeves are not arm warmers got it. But I am still sceptical these things somehow keep you cooler than air flowing over sweating skin in very hot weather since that works on the same concept as any air conditioner. But anyhow.

As for proffate's reply, like I said sunscreen is easily reapplied. But the last sentence is what I wonder - "The bigger question in my mind is why no one else is doing it" :Question: Exactly my thoughts.

I don't see the entire peloton dominated by compression sleeves on hot days in July or during 40C+ heat in the TDU. My experience is compression sleeve cooling effect is mostly hype and PR not scientifically proven reality. A view reinforced by what I see almost the entire peloton wearing on hot days (or not wearing).

We are drifting off topic but as I mentioned I don't think Remco's choice of arm-wear is suspicious merely another aspect of his relative inexperience.
Fair questions. They are regular apparel for many Iron Man competitors and marathon runners. Not all. So it does come down to personal preference. Also, some changes in the Pro Tour is like getting out of the Stone Age. They are very reluctant to change because of history. But we can agree I think that ringing the doping alarms because of arm covering is rather ridiculous.
 
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Merckx index said:
If they're so effective, why wouldn't riders--and marathoners, and other endurance athletes--wear body suits of the material? I definitely don't see them as necessary to avoid sunburn; I've never had a problem with lotion lasting long hours, and as others have said, it's not that difficult to reapply.
Regardless of your personal rituals and superstitions, sun sleeves
a) exist
b) protect you from the sun
c) are bought and used by enough people to justify (a)
d) are non-toxic (which can't be said for the majority of sunscreens out there)

I personally use them for long hot rides in the summer and I've yet to suffer heatstroke.
 
Do you think Remco was doping at 16 when he ran his first half-marathon at 16 in 1 hr 16 minutes. Look cycling has a lot of issues with doping but Remco has freakish genetics. Showing up at half marathon at 16 with no training and putting in that kind of time suggests he had the potential to be top marathon runner so it’s not like he’s been just like everyone else from the beginning. The guy has legendary stamina.
 
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LesDiablesRouges said:
Do you think Remco was doping at 16 when he ran his first half-marathon at 16 in 1 hr 16 minutes. Look cycling has a lot of issues with doping but Remco has freakish genetics. Showing up at half marathon at 16 with no training and putting in that kind of time suggests he had the potential to be top marathon runner so it’s not like he’s been just like everyone else from the beginning. The guy has legendary stamina.
This, all day long.

Look, it's naive to think the guy will crack the top tier of the peloton and stay clean, but it's hard to imagine a pro team doping a guy like this at such a young age. He could be doing something alone, but I just don't see any evidence of it. His progression looks like natural talents used to look before the EPO days.
 
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red_flanders said:
LesDiablesRouges said:
Do you think Remco was doping at 16 when he ran his first half-marathon at 16 in 1 hr 16 minutes. Look cycling has a lot of issues with doping but Remco has freakish genetics. Showing up at half marathon at 16 with no training and putting in that kind of time suggests he had the potential to be top marathon runner so it’s not like he’s been just like everyone else from the beginning. The guy has legendary stamina.
This, all day long.

Look, it's naive to think the guy will crack the top tier of the peloton and stay clean, but it's hard to imagine a pro team doping a guy like this at such a young age. He could be doing something alone, but I just don't see any evidence of it. His progression looks like natural talents used to look before the EPO days.
That half marathon time is crazy good for a 16-year-old who hasn't trained specifically for long-distance running. Actually, it would be a very, very good time for a 16-year-old cross-country runner who spent months training for longer distance events. So I agree that it's indicative of great genetics for Remco. We also see that, at this point, his physique is not crazy lean with very stark vascularity. And, importantly, we have not seen a transformation from not-so-lean to crazy lean. So, his physical appearance is not setting off alarm bells, either -- though I expect we'll see him cutting weight down in the future.
 
Re: Re:

red_flanders said:
LesDiablesRouges said:
Do you think Remco was doping at 16 when he ran his first half-marathon at 16 in 1 hr 16 minutes. Look cycling has a lot of issues with doping but Remco has freakish genetics. Showing up at half marathon at 16 with no training and putting in that kind of time suggests he had the potential to be top marathon runner so it’s not like he’s been just like everyone else from the beginning. The guy has legendary stamina.
This, all day long.

Look, it's naive to think the guy will crack the top tier of the peloton and stay clean, but it's hard to imagine a pro team doping a guy like this at such a young age. He could be doing something alone, but I just don't see any evidence of it. His progression looks like natural talents used to look before the EPO days.
He is Ullrich with a brain - super talented but will need to be a program to ‘Cunego’ a GT :cool:
 
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Yes, surely, Evenepoel was taking epo when he was playing for Anderlecht as a 14 - 16 year old. Which enabled him to run that semi-marathon without training with a top result. Or maybe he had an electric motor in his shoes, made by the same manufacturer that fit his Innsbruck bike with a motor.

JosephK said:
We also see that, at this point, his physique is not crazy lean with very stark vascularity. And, importantly, we have not seen a transformation from not-so-lean to crazy lean. So, his physical appearance is not setting off alarm bells, either -- though I expect we'll see him cutting weight down in the future.
He has specifically talked about this. He is well aware he needs to lose weight if he ever wants to compete for a GC. He was even skinnier in Innsbruck. But he says, that since his physique hasn't hit full maturity, that he doesn't want to risk hampering his physical progress (maybe causing irreversable damage), by going skinny too soon.
 
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red_flanders said:
LesDiablesRouges said:
Do you think Remco was doping at 16 when he ran his first half-marathon at 16 in 1 hr 16 minutes. Look cycling has a lot of issues with doping but Remco has freakish genetics. Showing up at half marathon at 16 with no training and putting in that kind of time suggests he had the potential to be top marathon runner so it’s not like he’s been just like everyone else from the beginning. The guy has legendary stamina.
This, all day long.

Look, it's naive to think the guy will crack the top tier of the peloton and stay clean, but it's hard to imagine a pro team doping a guy like this at such a young age. He could be doing something alone, but I just don't see any evidence of it. His progression looks like natural talents used to look before the EPO days.
Didn't know there was an age restriction on doping.
 
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Red Rick said:
red_flanders said:
LesDiablesRouges said:
Do you think Remco was doping at 16 when he ran his first half-marathon at 16 in 1 hr 16 minutes. Look cycling has a lot of issues with doping but Remco has freakish genetics. Showing up at half marathon at 16 with no training and putting in that kind of time suggests he had the potential to be top marathon runner so it’s not like he’s been just like everyone else from the beginning. The guy has legendary stamina.
This, all day long.

Look, it's naive to think the guy will crack the top tier of the peloton and stay clean, but it's hard to imagine a pro team doping a guy like this at such a young age. He could be doing something alone, but I just don't see any evidence of it. His progression looks like natural talents used to look before the EPO days.
Didn't know there was an age restriction on doping.
I'm sure I didn't say there was.

What incentive does DQS have to dope a 19-year-old who is under no pressure to win anything? Who they are keeping out of all the big races so he can grow and develop? Absolutely none. They are being careful and taking their time with him, as they should. As historically all big champions have been fostered.

Doping a kid like this would be idiotic. Doesn't mean it's impossible that the kid is doing something himself or some other way outside the team. But an outfit like DQS? That would make no sense whatsoever.

It's not a black and white world these guys live in. It's a world governed by incentives. As such, you can bet the team is keeping him far away from that nonsense for the time being.
 
It would be idiotic of DQS to dope a kid like Evenepoel before they can properly assess his potential. That would run contrary to how pretty much every serious team has done things for the last +15 years.
 

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