Research on Belief in God

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Echoes said:
I'm not a Paulinian but I see nothing in the Ephesians to support the claim that God chose/elected people to grant His mercy too.

God's grace was given to everybody. In other words, everybody's equal against the law. Then it's ours to accept it freely or not.

The opposite is old-testamentary, and got more to do with ideology than with religion.


4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. NAU Eph 1:4-6
 
Was referring to the verses you mentioned 2:1-10.

Anyway this does not show that He unconditionally selected a given group of men, divine grace was primarily granted to anybody. The Calvinist reading of the NT is wrong.

Timothy 2:3-6 : 3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
 
Echoes said:
Was referring to the verses you mentioned 2:1-10.

Anyway this does not show that He unconditionally selected a given group of men, divine grace was primarily granted to anybody. The Calvinist reading of the NT is wrong.

Timothy 2:3-6 : 3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Ok, I thought your were referring to Ephesians as a whole.

Let me first say that I am NOT a Calvanist. There are many things that Calvanist believe that I would disagree with. And same with Armenians. I wouldn't "classify" myself as either of the two....I guess I fall somewhere in between(I have no problems with my brothers and sisters in Christ who hold either one of those views.)

I believe that God died for the sins of all men. 1 John says, that He(Jesus) is the propitiation of our sins, and not ours only, but the sins of the whole world. I believe that wholeheartedly....It's there in the text.

In John 15:16 Jesus says, "you did not choose me, but I choose you and appointed you to bear fruit." It Is God who has chosen us. In His mercy He has chosen a people for Himself. Predestination is not God knowing ahead of time what man was going to decide about God, and then choosing to save that person based on that understanding. It's God in His love and mercy saving sinners, who the scriptures say, hate God. He draws us to Himself, opens our eyes, we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead...this is the only point I was trying to make.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Lol, Atheists in USA are protesting a cross that will be exhibited at the 9/11 museum. This is a large piece of debris that was left over in the ruins, and looked like a cross.

They've got to learn how to better pick their battles I think...

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-co...arch-10-2014/cross-controversy-at-9-11-museum



Also there is a new show by Neil de Grasse Tyson, called "Cosmos: a Spacetime Odyssey". I want to try and find a site online where I can watch it, it certainly looks fascinating. According to him, written human history only accounts for the last 17 seconds in the age of the universe
 
Mar 13, 2009
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1514099_10152018589351939_104027826_n.jpg
 
Christian said:
Lol, Atheists in USA are protesting a cross that will be exhibited at the 9/11 museum. This is a large piece of debris that was left over in the ruins, and looked like a cross.

They've got to learn how to better pick their battles I think...

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-co...arch-10-2014/cross-controversy-at-9-11-museum



Also there is a new show by Neil de Grasse Tyson, called "Cosmos: a Spacetime Odyssey". I want to try and find a site online where I can watch it, it certainly looks fascinating. According to him, written human history only accounts for the last 17 seconds in the age of the universe

What a lame and childish move, since it was just a piece of debris from the building. Of course there is a christian-religious intention to showcase that particular piece of metal since it looks like a cross, but still, how ridiculous.

It made me think of a hilarious situation of this sataninc group who wanted to have their monument showcased in Oklahoma City's Capitol. The funny thing is they had that right, since in the same building there's a ten commandments stone. Don't know what happened after that.

This is the monument.

satanist-monument.jpg


"The statue will serve as a beacon calling for compassion and empathy among all living creatures," Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the Satanic Temple, said in a prepared statement. "The statue will also have a functional purpose as a chair where people of all ages may sit on the lap of Satan for inspiration and contemplation.”

:D
 
Christian said:
Lol, Atheists in USA are protesting a cross that will be exhibited at the 9/11 museum. This is a large piece of debris that was left over in the ruins, and looked like a cross.

They've got to learn how to better pick their battles I think...

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-co...arch-10-2014/cross-controversy-at-9-11-museum



Also there is a new show by Neil de Grasse Tyson, called "Cosmos: a Spacetime Odyssey". I want to try and find a site online where I can watch it, it certainly looks fascinating. According to him, written human history only accounts for the last 17 seconds in the age of the universe

Worse still are those who believe that the "cross" was a divine sign that righteousness will prevail, or confirmation that He stands by the nation. It certainly would not have been glorified otherwise.
 

Herbstrong

BANNED
Mar 11, 2014
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Cycle of Lies

page 237 in Cycle of Lies...

"None of these events proved anything, but all of them piqued Tygart's interest. He didnt by the popular theory among Armstrong fans that no cancer survivor would risk the danger of using drugs simply to ride a bike faster.
'If i personally was on the brink of death and went through a terrible situation and came out of that as an atheist,' he said, "I'm going to do everthing in life that benefits me because I might not be here tomorrow.
'Treating people fairly or being decent or putting myself aside for other people - those basic moral values that most of us practice regardless of what religion we are - wouldn't matter. I'd have no moral constraints.
'The logical extension of that would be: 'I dont give a **** about anything. I'm gonna get it when I can get it.'"

WOW!

I can only reply to that with a quote from Richard Dawkins:
richard-dawkins-morality-quote.jpg
 
Christian said:
Also there is a new show by Neil de Grasse Tyson, called "Cosmos: a Spacetime Odyssey". I want to try and find a site online where I can watch it, it certainly looks fascinating. According to him, written human history only accounts for the last 17 seconds in the age of the universe

Funny, I'm watching it right now.

Download hola extension for Chrome and click here: http://www.hulu.com/watch/604551
 
Herbstrong said:
page 237 in Cycle of Lies...

"None of these events proved anything, but all of them piqued Tygart's interest. He didnt by the popular theory among Armstrong fans that no cancer survivor would risk the danger of using drugs simply to ride a bike faster.
'If i personally was on the brink of death and went through a terrible situation and came out of that as an atheist,' he said, "I'm going to do everthing in life that benefits me because I might not be here tomorrow.
'Treating people fairly or being decent or putting myself aside for other people - those basic moral values that most of us practice regardless of what religion we are - wouldn't matter. I'd have no moral constraints.
'The logical extension of that would be: 'I dont give a **** about anything. I'm gonna get it when I can get it.'"

WOW!

I can only reply to that with a quote from Richard Dawkins:
richard-dawkins-morality-quote.jpg

Wow, Tygart said that? I lost all respect for him.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Descender said:
Funny, I'm watching it right now.

Download hola extension for Chrome and click here: http://www.hulu.com/watch/604551

Thanks, I also watched it yesterday, I found a link to stream it online. For the most part I found it very interesting, the beginning was a bit lame and the drawings a bit infantile, but for the rest good
 
How surprising atheists are fighting for repressing freedom of cult... All the values that shaped our civilisation, they want away with them.

They will never find any popular support for each of their battle because they despise people.


Worst thing is that in France, for example, you can't have a cross in public school, women can't wear veils in school (just as in Belgium) but Jews are allowed to celebrate Hanooka, on public places.

Some communities seem to get preferential treatments from atheists. It seems that Judaism is not a religion (which I think is correct, it's an ideology.)
 
Echoes said:
How surprising atheists are fighting for repressing freedom of cult... All the values that shaped our civilisation, they want away with them.

They will never find any popular support for each of their battle because they despise people.


Worst thing is that in France, for example, you can't have a cross in public school, women can't wear veils in school (just as in Belgium) but Jews are allowed to celebrate Hanooka, on public places.

Some communities seem to get preferential treatments from atheists. It seems that Judaism is not a religion (which I think is correct, it's an ideology.)


The idea with the crosses in the schools, as in Italy (where legislation to remove them was not successful, such is the preponderance of the Vatican), is simply connected to a fortuitous separation of church and state. Why should I have to subject my children to the religious symbols of others in the public domain?

They are for places of worship, which none are denied from the state...to the contrary. While it isn't the state's business to promote one faith over the others, as if it were the official religion that by its very nature doesn't have. Rather the state's public role in the matter should simply be that of a neutral and unbiased bystander, whose only prerogative before the people is to safeguard the egalitarian principles guaranteed by the constitution.

And how are public displays of Jewish religious festivals, any different from those of Christians or Muslims? Excuse me but your sectarian bias bellies a hostile attitude that’s so typical among your group.

The point is that it shouldn’t be the state's prerogative in modern, secular Western democracy to publicize the religiosity of any group within the lay context of its institutions. That some religious are scandalized by this...well, go live in a theocracy, or else content oneself in being at full liberty to take access to one’s own private places of worship.

Perhaps one day humanity can go beyond the prepotency of the religious institutions and learn to get along better, which would certainly be a good thing, While it is equally certain that the great monotheistic religions have caused just the opposite effect, which is genetic.

On the other hand banning Muslim girls from wearing veils in public schools is an official act of State racism that is repugnant, for it should also mean that Christian children must not don crosses at school, or Jewish boys kippahs. However, this is a private matter that has nothing to do with the external issue of a state institution hanging a religious symbol in its halls. It is thus a question of public decorum that's not to be confused with personal liberty as France has done. The two can, and must, coexist. In other words the state must remain neutral in matters regarding the public decorum of its own spaces, over which it has every legitimate juristiction, and not get into the private business of those who frequent them of which it has no authority beyond cases of discrimination, or acts against others incolmuty or property. The wearing of veils, however, does not fit within this criteria.