Riccò hospitalized for possible kidney ailment

[BotanyBay]

tip of the iceberg

Sadly, it is.

 

[The Hitch]

t, but it's not "clean riders" vs. "dopers", but rather "more or less responsible dopers" vs. "obnoxious dopers who make them all look bad by testing positive."

Interesting Hrotha. I thought you were always of the opinion that there were clean riders at the top and that it is possible to win big races clean.

Its one of the few disagreements i had with you.

 

[ulrikmm]

Ricco is a megalomaniacal psycho who refers to himself in the third person. Despite his talent, or more likely because of it, his problems are deeply rooted. I predict things will ultimately go badly for him ala VDB and Pantani. It is a shame, but certainly not unique.

So true. I remember Chris Anker Sørensens blog, in which he ridiculed Ricco because the cobra name was not given to him by fans or competitors, but a name that Ricco invented himself.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Ricardo Vandervelde, former Garmin now Jelly Belly:

http://twitter.com/ricardovdvelde

Thanks. Never heard of the guy before this.

 

[Martin318is]

Ahh, but in my analogy we were discussing US politics.

Ah but you see, nobody is interested in US politics.

 

[hrotha]

Interesting Hrotha. I thought you were always of the opinion that there were clean riders at the top and that it is possible to win big races clean.

Its one of the few disagreements i had with you.

Oh, I still think so, but I don't think they're a majority or that they're the most vocal about Riccò.

 

[rmacek]

Manuel Quinziato, Daniel Oss: "Goodbye Riccardo! We won't miss you!"
(on twitter)

 

[Benotti69]

any pro that has tweeted anything unfavourable about Ricco and not Contador is a hyprocrite and in my eyes a doper.


not knowing the full facts about Ricco's 'program' and whether he has a personal doctor for this stuff and has done this before at home with Ms Rossi or not is immaterial. if Ricco is doing it how many others are? Lots. We know Landis did it so why not others. After a few instructions about the do's and dont i bet they are all at it the senior pros. those that aren't live in areas like Girona where they have assistance on hand. Lots of the Italian pros live in Tuscany, i bet there is a good reason and its not the wine and scenery.

I am not holding my breath that this changes anything though. Although i hope it leads to the Italian authorities busting others in the dealing of PEDs, but it is probably not gonna go high up to the top dealers, but it would be great if it does.

 

[The Hitch]

Oh, I still think so, but I don't think they're a majority or that they're the most vocal about Riccò.

who do you not think is the majority? clean riders or dopers?

 

[hrotha]

who do you not think is the majority? clean riders or dopers?

The clean riders winning stuff.

I'm not sure about the absolute percentages of totally clean vs doped riders.
edit: oops, I thought you said the minority.

 

[BotanyBay]

Ah but you see, nobody is interested in US politics.

I often listen to the BBC World Service at lunch. Every other story is about the USA. Someday I hope to hear a bit of British news. That country actually interests me.

 

[Galic Ho]

The guy almost lost his life.. And his career is ruined. How much punishment do you want him to get? He's basically a doper who is likely in the vast majority with other dopers, with teams, managers, soigners, and licensed physicians often equally culpable. I mean, if you're going to start tossing stones...

The more I think about this situation, the more I'm not reminded of various dopers who were caught and denied, I'm reminded of Marco Pantani. We know he doped, probably his entire career, but no one deserves to die the way he did.

Ironically Pantani is Ricco's hero. Some great insight into how to view the psyche of dopers was given in the past fortnight by Christophe Bassons. Apply his reasoning here to Ricco and take a few well educated guesses as to why Ricco would go back to old doping habits (if he has indeed and been caught) and I have sympathy for him. He's trying to fill a void. I mentioned in another thread this past week a reference to where I saw Ricco while revisiting 2006 TdF footage. He was getting dropped on the climbs. Two years later he was dropping everyone. Seems to me to be a prime example of the pressure one faces to dope. As Bassons said, the temptation is there, if you were brought up properyl and cycling and winning isn't your sole motivator, you'll likely overcome the temptation. If not, you'll succumb and you're just another statistic. Another number and face in the system called Omerta. Then the onus is on you to play the game and not get cuaght.

If Ricco isn't racing after this well it will suck. Another challenger to the established so called 'clean' GC big names gone. I for one don't believe for a second anyone at the Mapei Clinic is clean. The numbers and common sense don't add up. One good thing I heard from this was that Ricardo made up with his missus. Good on him. I respect him for that. Decent move from him. Hope he gets better, young man with a whole life ahead of him with a young family. His health is what is important, namely being alive and not being fool hardy and taking enormous risks with his life to fulfill some personal cycling desires.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Other riders should heed the warning provided by this near-fatal incident for Rico. DIY blood storage and transfusion programs ARE NOT SAFE.

Get well soon Riccardo.

 

[Escarabajo]

any pro that has tweeted anything unfavourable about Ricco and not Contador is a hyprocrite and in my eyes a doper.


...

+1. Agree to the bolded part. Not sure about being a doper part. Maybe they are just scare of retaliation. Attacking Ricco bears no risk at this point for them.

 

[Mambo95]

any pro that has tweeted anything unfavourable about Ricco and not Contador is a hyprocrite and in my eyes a doper.

I disagree.

Cyclists aren't like most Clinic posters, reading everything they can get their hands on about doping. They're largely ill informed (if they're clean) and really just see headlines and brief reports on CN.

So for Contador, they see positive for Clen and they think 'what's that?'. Then he says it's from dodgy beef and they think 'he's probably lying, but I really don't know anything about this product or beef, so I'll keep quiet.'

For Ricco, they read about the kidney failure and say little, but then they read about the alleged admission from Ricco and pile in.

It's the alleged admission which triggered the condemnation, not the illness.

 

[hrotha]

The problem is, 99% of us aren't insiders. It's really hard to think pro riders, as insiders, wouldn't have access to and know much of the same information we have, and more. I suppose it's possible that they really are ill informed, but it strains disbelief.

 

[BotanyBay]

I disagree.

Cyclists aren't like most Clinic posters, reading everything they can get their hands on about doping. They're largely ill informed (if they're clean) and really just see headlines and brief reports on CN.

So for Contador, they see positive for Clen and they think 'what's that?'. Then he says it's from dodgy beef and they think 'he's probably lying, but I really don't know anything about this product or beef, so I'll keep quiet.'

For Ricco, they read about the kidney failure and say little, but then they read about the alleged admission from Ricco and pile in.

It's the alleged admission which triggered the condemnation, not the illness.

Pro cyclists ALL know the game. Every single one of them knows what's going on. For them to pretend they don't, and to hop on the laymen's bandwagon of condemnation while the guy is sitting in the hospital... Sorry, but it is very upsetting to me.

 

[Mambo95]

The problem is, 99% of us aren't insiders. It's really hard to think pro riders, as insiders, wouldn't have access to and know much of the same information we have, and more. I suppose it's possible that they really are ill informed, but it strains disbelief.

You're not insiders. But you pull together all the reports and comments from all sorts of people. You look at the Clen statistics for use in the Spanish cattle industry. You read the academic papers. You do the calculations. You formulate the theories. Some of it may be BS, but you still read it.

Cyclists on the other hand, have better things to do. They just read headlines.

Do you think really any cyclist has delved deep into the Contador saga to find out the truth like they're some sort of lawyer on the case?

 

[webvan]

So which pro has been trashing him?

 

[Kennf1]

Other riders should heed the warning provided by this near-fatal incident for Rico. DIY blood storage and transfusion programs ARE NOT SAFE.

Ferrari's client list and prices just went up.

 

[BotanyBay]

So which pro has been trashing him?

http://www.bikechatter.com/

Bob Roll, Adam Myerson, several others. All in bad taste.

 

[Berzin]

Attacking Ricco bears no risk at this point for them.

Ricco is a convenient target because he was never with the "in" crowd. But that wasn't the case.

Besides, I usually don't go to the pro peloton to gauge what the moral zeitgeist is on doping issues. They collectively seem to be an amoral and hypocritical lot by and large when it comes to the use of PEDs.

Better to let them display their outrage on more pressing issues, like the banning of radios during races. Now that's what I call a game changer. Doping? Not so much.

 

[Jonny7c]

Depressed Fan

Wow. Just paid my first visit to the clinic forum to see the latest news on Ricco and really wish I hadn't.

I'm fairly new to cycling (last 2 years so i haven't even see Ricco race) but try and follow as many races as possible on tv and through the forums. I've come to accept that a lot (or more?) of the GT contenders are at least under suspicion of doping but it seemed that finger of suspicion was not pointed so regularly at the sprinters and classics contenders (with some notable exceptions). So i'd settled into observing the races I watched using those basic assumptions and still managing to enjoy the outcomes even when those outcomes are subsequently changed by positive tests and bans.

Now after reading this entire thread much of the debate seems to be whether all riders dope or 'only' the majority of riders. It's all a bit depressing but perhaps I shouldn't have been so naive before checking out this forum. I guess I'll continue to root for British riders safe in the knowledge that with the exception of Cav they will probably only win minor races and the odd stage of bigger races for now and therefore I can hopefully assume they are clean. But that may be my naivety again!

Perhaps in future I should stay in my protective bubble away from the clinic.

 

[hrotha]

You're not insiders. But you pull together all the reports and comments from all sorts of people. You look at the Clen statistics for use in the Spanish cattle industry. You read the academic papers. You do the calculations. You formulate the theories. Some of it may be BS, but you still read it.

Cyclists on the other hand, have better things to do. They just read headlines.

Do you think really any cyclist has delved deep into the Contador saga to find out the truth like they're some sort of lawyer on the case?

No, they wouldn't know about all those studies on clenbuterol unless they had some very specific interests, but that's not really the kind of info I had in mind. My impression is that, in a world like pro cycling where everybody sort of knows everybody, the stories about who's doing what travel fast. We've seen many posts by local US riders who know who's on the hot sauce before they get busted. We hear of Hoogerland and Terpstra gaining colourful nicknames in the Dutch u23 peloton. We've read references to riders freely discussing dope during races, references that span several decades. That's the sort of thing I was thinking about and which I find really hard to believe is not circulating among the pros, regarding some of the most visible stars.

 

[Mambo95]

Wow. Just paid my first visit to the clinic forum to see the latest news on Ricco and really wish I hadn't.

I'm fairly new to cycling (last 2 years so i haven't even see Ricco race) but try and follow as many races as possible on tv and through the forums. I've come to accept that a lot (or more?) of the GT contenders are at least under suspicion of doping but it seemed that finger of suspicion was not pointed so regularly at the sprinters and classics contenders (with some notable exceptions). So i'd settled into observing the races I watched using those basic assumptions and still managing to enjoy the outcomes even when those outcomes are subsequently changed by positive tests and bans.

Now after reading this entire thread much of the debate seems to be whether all riders dope or 'only' the majority of riders. It's all a bit depressing but perhaps I shouldn't have been so naive before checking out this forum. I guess I'll continue to root for British riders safe in the knowledge that with the exception of Cav they will probably only win minor races and the odd stage of bigger races for now and therefore I can hopefully assume they are clean. But that may be my naivety again!

Perhaps in future I should stay in my protective bubble away from the clinic.

You should regard the posters on here with the same sceptical stance that you treat the riders.

Not all riders are clean. Not every poster knows what they're talking about.