Riccò hospitalized for possible kidney ailment

[131313]

If he has kidney failure, his racing days are over. Once they fail, they don't usually magically "re-start". So don't worry about a ban or his team sacking him. That's immaterial.

That's simply not true. People with acute renal failure from sepsis can and do recover full kidney function. This is different than renal failure due to kidney disease.

I don't know the % for full recovery, but even if I searched to figure it out, remember that sepsis is often resultant in an older, less healthy population. As a healthy guy in his 20's, his prognosis would have to be a little better, unless a lifetime of doping has had some effect (and this is an open question).

 

[ulrikmm]

If he has kidney failure, his racing days are over. Once they fail, they don't usually magically "re-start". So don't worry about a ban or his team sacking him. That's immaterial.

I do not agree: If his kidneys have failed acutely due to sepsis, thrombosis, toxins or hypotension, they usually will return to near normal function after weeks to months. Patients can even be without urine productio for many weeks, and still recover (because of dialysis as a bridge to recovery).

At one point, it was mentioned that RR suffered from pulmonary embolism (clots in the lung vessels). If it is true, that can be severe: instantaneous death, or lead to a life with extremely impaired lung function (eg: difficulty breathing when trying to get dressed, or walking slowly in flat terrain). Not good for anyone, and especially not cyclists.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I really wonder what the general thought will be if this turns out to be a gigantic mistake.
That would be soooooo funny.

My "general thought" is that transfusing bad/another persons blood on your own is already a "gigantic mistake".

 

[BotanyBay]

I do not agree: If his kidneys have failed acutely due to sepsis, thrombosis, toxins or hypotension, they usually will return to near normal function after weeks to months. Patients can even be without urine productio for many weeks, and still recover (because of dialysis as a bridge to recovery).

At one point, it was mentioned that RR suffered from pulmonary embolism (clots in the lung vessels). If it is true, that can be severe: instantaneous death, or lead to a life with extremely impaired lung function (eg: difficulty breathing when trying to get dressed, or walking slowly in flat terrain). Not good for anyone, and especially not cyclists.

Apologies. I should have made the distinction between sepsis and kidney disease. And to point out, we still do not yet have any credible data that says he auto-transfused (leading to a likely situation of sepsis).

I have a friend who (at precisely age 27) lost kidney function due to kidney disease. He had no family history of it and he'd led a healthy, active life. He did dialysis for 3 miserable years before getting a transplant, and he is now doing far better.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Okay, sadly, lets go with your premise that they are all doping. Then, Yes, THEY ARE ALL IDIOTS. For my part, I don't believe that, but if that were the way it truly is, in the peloton, then the sport has no credibility at all. However, if I am to remain a fan of pro cycling, I will not subsribe to that viewpoint until evidence is submitted to the contrary.
As one shocked junior member articulated somewhere in this thread, the cynicism that runs rampant through this forum is astounding and quite a turn off. I refuse to be part of that cynicism. Ricco is absolutely as stupid as one can be. I hope he has a life after cycling, because I won't for a moment be pulling for him to have any more professional cycling left in his life. However,for his efforts he does deserve a reward: a lifetime ban, nothing less.

Dude you are so so swimming in denial. There has been nothing but evidence showing that that is the case.
Evidence of the performance gains realized with doping procedures.
Evidence of team wide doping programs.
Evidence of cells of riders getting together to set up their own little "blood clinics".
Evidence of medical doctors who make their livings by setting up doping programs.
The list of top riders who have been connected to doping through failed tests, police investigations, coach or team affiliations, or confession.

Come on add 1+1 already.

 

[luckyboy]

this was what ate up Pantani. he got caught but others didn't and he thought it was so so unfair.......

Yeah pretty much everytime a positive comes out now I think of all the people that are getting away rather than the one that was caught.

Anyway, I guess they have to be stupid to fail the test in the first place so I don't know what to think.

 

[the student]

Has anyone actually seen the interview in which Luyckx said this? And if you will note, the Bici article has been edited, with any references to him or "the Dutch media" being removed.

I talked to Luyckx today and he said he could not confirm the statement that Ricco had denied it.

Susan

Here are links with conversations between the NOS media and The vanansoleil team( in Dutch ).
( i think viewers from other countries might not be allowed acces to them, dont ask me why )
http://nos.nl/video/217734-toekomst-ricco-in-handen-vacansoleil.html
http://nos.nl/audio/217519-luijkx-over-ricco-dit-is-onvoorstelbaar.html

 

[rhubroma]

It's more about the Media and fellow riders.
The amount of hatred spilled by both is astonishing since there is no hard evidence that this is in fact a doping case.
I mean, the story sounds plausible and is very likely, but you would expect some restraint from at least the media outlets.

Not in Italy. Where it makes all too much sense indeed.

 

[orbis_25]

Part of me thinks it's best that Ricco cops jail, or a ban for this, because it might be what's needed to stop him from doing something stupid and hurting himself once more.

Part of me is unsure what Ricco has beyond cycling, and fears for what state he will be in if that is ripped from underneath him.

Part of me loves Ricco the cyclist, the way he races, the way he gets on others' nerves.

There are no winners here.

I, too, worry about what life holds for Riccò outside of cycling. It's something he's obviously incredibly invested in (yes, he is. Anyone who does this to themselves must care about it a ridiculous amount. Not necessarily a good type of care, but care nevertheless). If there's nothing else out there for him then we might just be facing another Pantani situation in a few years. That's not something I would welcome, regardless of who the cyclist was and what they'd done. As such, I don't want Riccò to be jailed for this alleged botched doping attempt. I want him to get help, proper medical help from people who care about his health. Obviously he should be banned, but he (and every other cyclist in a similar situation) should not just be thrown under the bus and ostracised by the cycling world. That helps no one.

Oh, and I also love the way Riccò races/raced, and the way everyone hates him for being an arrogant Italian jerk.

 

[indurain666]

Okay, sadly, lets go with your premise that they are all doping. Then, Yes, THEY ARE ALL IDIOTS. For my part, I don't believe that, but if that were the way it truly is, in the peloton, then the sport has no credibility at all. However, if I am to remain a fan of pro cycling, I will not subsribe to that viewpoint until evidence is submitted to the contrary.
As one shocked junior member articulated somewhere in this thread, the cynicism that runs rampant through this forum is astounding and quite a turn off. I refuse to be part of that cynicism. Ricco is absolutely as stupid as one can be. I hope he has a life after cycling, because I won't for a moment be pulling for him to have any more professional cycling left in his life. However,for his efforts he does deserve a reward: a lifetime ban, nothing less.

Dude: wake up, ask anyone who raced at a high level (i.e. U23, semi pro or higher) and you will get hit with some cold hard knowledge . Even in U23/semi pro, I used to see a lot of scary stuff, I am really glad I retired and became an engineer. If you are naive enough to think that only Ricco is doping, then you are a lost cause.

 

[nowhereman]

Dude you are so so swimming in denial. There has been nothing but evidence showing that that is the case.
Evidence of the performance gains realized with doping procedures.
Evidence of team wide doping programs.
Evidence of cells of riders getting together to set up their own little "blood clinics".
Evidence of medical doctors who make their livings by setting up doping programs.
The list of top riders who have been connected to doping through failed tests, police investigations, coach or team affiliations, or confession.

Come on add 1+1 already.

My man. I'm not living in denial. Many of the riders are living in denial. And, I'm not a defender of these guys, all I'm trying to say is, I can't believe that ALL of the riders are doping. Sorry, but I need to believe that some of these guys still ride clean and that some of those guys even win, once in a while. Despite your list of "evidence" above, I still cling to my meager beliefs. If those beliefs get trampled much further I will become an ex-fan of pro cycling.

 

[nowhereman]

Dude: wake up, ask anyone who raced at a high level (i.e. U23, semi pro or higher) and you will get hit with some cold hard knowledge . Even in U23/semi pro, I used to see a lot of scary stuff, I am really glad I retired and became an engineer. If you are naive enough to think that only Ricco is doping, then you are a lost cause.

I guess you've gotta get extreme to feel like you know better than me.
But, I never said that Ricco was the only one doping, never. He's just the biggest a$$whole in the peloton that is doping. And the price for his stupidity almost rung out to be his life. You ought to re read that post again maybe yo u'd get my point on the second pass.

 

[andy1234]

Dude: wake up, ask anyone who raced at a high level (i.e. U23, semi pro or higher) and you will get hit with some cold hard knowledge . Even in U23/semi pro, I used to see a lot of scary stuff, I am really glad I retired and became an engineer. If you are naive enough to think that only Ricco is doping, then you are a lost cause.

If you rode at that level you would KNOW that it isn't EVERYONE who is doping.
Quite simply there ARE riders competing and winning clean.
Doping is widespread at all levels, but the idea that everyone who competes, is doping, is distorted.

 

[Hugh Januss]

My man. I'm not living in denial. Many of the riders are living in denial. And, I'm not a defender of these guys, all I'm trying to say is, I can't believe that ALL of the riders are doping. Sorry, but I need to believe that some of these guys still ride clean and that some of those guys even win, once in a while. Despite your list of "evidence" above, I still cling to my meager beliefs. If those beliefs get trampled much further I will become an ex-fan of pro cycling.

OK, not to be too mean because you do seem genuine in your beliefs, but that sounds a lot like denial to me.

 

[orbis_25]

I see Ricco as a brash, foolish young man who cheated to support his career, his ego, and his family. I don't know his background but I wonder whether he had many other options that would have secured financial success. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. If it is true about the self-administered transfusion, this only shows us how important it is to join a team with a safe, sophisticated doping program or use the services of an independent expert. Neither option was likely available to Ricco at this low point of his career.

I agree with those who have suggested Ricco will be labeled as a rotten apple in a clean, fresh barrel of fruit. Kick 'em while they're down and hope to God the truth doesn't get out.

The riders who tweeted their contempt while he's still lying in a hospital bed are douchebags. There is a time and a place to show some humanity. And if you want to speak out, don't stop with Ricco. Man up and sling your arrows at the other guys just like him.

EVERYBODY! please read the above! this must have been written in an effort to justify doping: The poor boy wasn't in a sophisticated enough team to satisfy his doping schemes properly, and now that he was at a low point, after being busted once, even guys like Ferrari ar Fuentes wouldn't go near him, to help him along with his doping desires.
Why don't you come right out ( or as you like to put it: MAN UP) and say it: You want Doping to be legalized. Then we could just have a World Tour of Doping Champions. May the best man and his doctors win.
BTW, you and many others on this thread don't know Ricco like his competitors in the peloton do. So, I cut them a bit of slack when they pronounce so harshly on that SOB. I get a feeling they know exactly what a dirt bag he truly is. So what you got on the tweet lines is exactly how they felt. You might not like what they said, but at least they can't be accused of hypocrisy on this count.

Wait, what? I didn't read pedaling squares post at all like that. I can't speak for him, but I can say that I agree with him but it certainly doesn't follow that I want doping to be legalised. I understand why Riccò was tempted to dope, and why he followed through with it. I can imagine the kinds of pressure he must have felt. I don't agree with his actions, but who's to say that if our positions were reversed I would act any differently? I'd like to think I would, as I certainly do not agree with doping, but I know why Riccò did what he did. Is that too much to admit?

As for the importance of being in a big team if you're going to dope, well isn't that a given? It's surely far better to dope in an organisation that's going to provide top quality care than to self-transfuse your blood. Obviously cyclists dope, and obviously it's safer to do it in the presence of the team doctor than in your kitchen. Doping is very dangerous and we should never condone it, but we can surely recognise that some ways are safer than others. Doing so doesn't mean you want doping legitimised. I don't.

Right now, Riccò is definitely being cast as the one sole doper in cycling. He's being demonised by any and all associated with our sport, by those who know full well he's not alone. His fellow riders don't care for his health or well being, they're just concerned with being seen to be staunchly anti-doping. Riccò has done wrong, but he is still a human being, and you would think at least some of his fellow riders would be concerned with his recovery. Apparently not. I agree with pedaling squares. Those riders tweeting their contempt while Riccò was possibly dying are indeed douchebags, and I have far less respect for them than I do Riccò.

 

[131313]

Right now, Riccò is definitely being cast as the one sole doper in cycling.

by whom?

This seems to be the overwhelming sentiment cast towards anyone who dares to criticize Ricco. It seems like a total straw man to me. I don't know anyone who is making this claim.

 

[VeloFidelis]

If he has kidney failure, his racing days are over. Once they fail, they don't usually magically "re-start". So don't worry about a ban or his team sacking him. That's immaterial.

Well I'm dropping him from my fantasy team... that's for sure

 

[Hugh Januss]

Well I'm dropping him from my fantasy team... that's for sure

Post of the day.

 

[ulrikmm]

Being a MD myself, I have to ask this question:

WTF are d o c t o r s doing in cycling? What is it that they can offer, and that physical trainers can't?

I fear the primary answer is procurement of and advice on the undetected use of performance enhancing drugs.

If this is too off topic, the moderators are free move the discussion to another thread.

 

[Martin318is]

EVERYBODY! please read the above! this must have been written in an effort to justify doping: The poor boy wasn't in a sophisticated enough team to satisfy his doping schemes properly, and now that he was at a low point, after being busted once, even guys like Ferrari ar Fuentes wouldn't go near him, to help him along with his doping desires.
Why don't you come right out ( or as you like to put it: MAN UP) and say it: You want Doping to be legalized. Then we could just have a World Tour of Doping Champions. May the best man and his doctors win.
BTW, you and many others on this thread don't know Ricco like his competitors in the peloton do. So, I cut them a bit of slack when they pronounce so harshly on that SOB. I get a feeling they know exactly what a dirt bag he truly is. So what you got on the tweet lines is exactly how they felt. You might not like what they said, but at least they can't be accused of hypocrisy on this count.

Wow, thats quite an incompetent piece of reading comprehension.

What he said about Twitter was:
While someone is in hospital and you dont know what his condition is, is not the time to be slagging him off in public. Wait until you know he will survive, then do it.

If you can attack Ricco so violently, then where were your outraged comments when the dopers you "liked" got caught? You seem happy to pretend that they weren't doping....

 

[orbis_25]

by whom?

This seems to be the overwhelming sentiment cast towards anyone who dares to criticize Ricco. It seems like a total straw man to me. I don't know anyone who is making this claim.

I'm inferring the claim from various comments made by riders in the media, such as Tweets and articles. It hasn't been explicitly stated by anyone, but it's the vibe I'm getting. You may disagree, and that's fine.

As far as I can see, I’m not presenting a straw man argument. The argument, as I understand it, is that Riccò is a doper and should be banned. He’s in the vast minority by being so, and as such we should “send him to the moon” in Cancellara’s opinion. In response, I’m claiming that yes Riccò is a doper, and yes he should be banned. But I’m arguing against the next part of the argument. I’m saying Riccò’s not in the minority, and so we shouldn’t unfairly demonise him. We should recognise there is a major problem, and help cyclists like him. We shouldn’t send him off to the wilderness and turn our backs on what we helped create. I’m agreeing with part of the argument as it’s presented, and disagreeing with another part as it’s presented. If I were making a straw man argument, I’d have to distort the original argument, and then argue against that distorted version. I don’t believe I’m doing so, but if I am feel free to correct me.

 

[BotanyBay]

And while people are opening up inquiries about the man, what about his team?

 

[webvan]

When was the last time a team was "investigated" for doping? Other than Liberty Seguros in 2006, because they had no choice with Sainz being directly involved in Puerto, I can't remember a team being pointed at during a doping scandal.

Case in point, Lelangue and Rihs happily running BMC. This has been rehashed to death here, but until the managers and owners have to answer for their riders' doping nothing will change. Problem is that part of the Omerta still works well, again with Lelangue and Rihs as examples : why did Kimmage not ask about them in his "tell all" interview with Landis?

 

[WonderLance]

The guy almost lost his life.. And his career is ruined. How much punishment do you want him to get? He's basically a doper who is likely in the vast majority with other dopers, with teams, managers, soigners, and licensed physicians often equally culpable. I mean, if you're going to start tossing stones...

The more I think about this situation, the more I'm not reminded of various dopers who were caught and denied, I'm reminded of Marco Pantani. We know he doped, probably his entire career, but no one deserves to die the way he did.

Thankyou for saying this. I was banned for saying it.

Sometimes I really think people here have no understanding what its like to be pro.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Being a MD myself, I have to ask this question:

WTF are d o c t o r s doing in cycling? What is it that they can offer, and that physical trainers can't? I fear the primary answer is procurement of and advice on the undetected use of performance enhancing drugs.

And easy money. Those would be my guesses.

You are right, this is worthy of a new thread. I'd encourage you to start one on this very topic.