Riccò hospitalized for possible kidney ailment

[Anonymous]

I think you will find the two statutes and common law, plus the NHS guidelines I posted the link to cover the law in the UK. The European law will be similar or will actually grant more confidentiality privileges to the patient.

Happy reading.

worth noting that that document is only "guidelines" and is intentionally vague in several areas. IN the document it also states the the "definition of serious crime is not clear", so under Italian law where doping carries anything up to 3 years in prison, that would most certainly be a serious crime. theres also the "for the public good" option. Theres a whole host of ways of getting round it, and as I say, that document is purely "guidelines" and in no way legislative

Again, if the doctor has reason to believe that other riders were undergoing this procedure then it would be in the public intrests to reveal ricco's transfusion to protect other members of the public (riders) from the same fate. Im not saying the doctors right or wrong or within the law, but there are so many ways a good lawyer can interpret it its pretty much pointless.

thank you however for bringing this thread back on track. It was really losing it for a while.

 

[M Sport]

worth noting that that document is only "guidelines" and is intentionally vague in several areas. IN the document it also states the the "definition of serious crime is not clear", so under Italian law where doping carries anything up to 3 years in prison, that would most certainly be a serious crime. theres also the "for the public good" option. Theres a whole host of ways of getting round it, and as I say, that document is purely "guidelines" and in no way legislative

I'm about to run out the door to a meeting but two quick points. Serious crime is usually violent crimes with sentences in the range of 8-10 years to life, I can expand more on that tonight if you want. There is actually a definition I can dig up.

That document is a guideline, but it references statute, common law and the NHS regualtions, it's more of a sumary document than a 'guideline'.

 

[Escarabajo]

OMG. What happened with this thread? I left for a few hours and then I opened the forum and found out that the apocalypses is coming and Ricco doing a blood transfusion is the first sign of it.

We need a good lawyer. I am not convinced by M Sport at all.

Somehow I am agreeing with what TeamSkyFans is saying. In the worst case scenario I can see a multitude of options for a good lawyer to defend the Doctor if his main objective was to help or save a life.

 

[joe_papp]

Anyone wonder what the team visualized Ricco's performance capabilities as being for the terms of the contract? Like, what if the team was paying him as if and expecting he could ride like he did in 2008? That would be a bit cynical and would be an example of the oft-talked about "organizational complicity in doping." The team knowingly creates the expectation of performances unattainable by the athlete in question based on his performances when doped. Then the rider dopes because it's what's expected of him - to meet the terms of the contract that he and the team negotiated.

That's an oversimplification and it's not at all an attempt to somehow lessen Ricco's stupidity or culpability in all of this. It just would be interesting to know what kind of performances the team expected for contractual purposes and if they believed in good faith that the performances could be obtained w/o doping, or rather, wink-wink by a rider who would "do what it takes" while off at home training on his own, getting ready.

 

[BroDeal]

in italy a doctor working for the national health service in a emergency department is obliged to the law to inform the authorities if somebody is in danger for life as a consequence of violence, illegal behavior, mva and so on.

do it yourself autologous transfusions is illegal, doping is illegal in italy, so the doctor just filled his duty.
he did not break any rule of confidentiality, heyhe doctor just did what tje law ask him to do.

by the way, the pavullo hospital stated that the doctor just informed the authorities and hat the leak to the press and media did not come from the hospital..

This creates a serious dilemma for someone in Ricco's situation. He is left with a choice of telling his doctor and losing his career or keeping quiet and possibly losing his life. Most people will keep queit until the point when they think they have no other choice, by which time it might be too late.

What happens during the common case of someone with a drug overdose?

 

[Martin318is]

I think you will find the two statutes and common law, plus the NHS guidelines I posted the link to cover the law in the UK. The European law will be similar or will actually grant more confidentiality privileges to the patient.

Happy reading.

Ricco is not in the UK.

As has been discussed at length, Italian law states that Doping IS a criminal offense and blood transfusions are considered to be doping. Therefore, unless this is countered by a pre-existing ruling by the European Court, the Italian doctor is well within his rights (even if not his obligations - either way he can/must) to contact the police in this particular case.

What Daotec has been asked for is the link to the legal document that he cryptically asserts exists to make the reporting to the police illegal in European law.

Regardless, what is more interesting is how this then gets messed up by comments to the press.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

If (English) I (Danish/Norwegian bokmål) change (German?) my (French) languages (Interlingua/Latin/French/?) often (Polish) enough (Dutch), then (English) the people (Dutch) understand (Danish/Norwegian bokmål) ana (?) not (Danish/Norwegian bokmål) y (?) think (French/Spanish/Latin), Я (Russian?) sou (?) very (Spanish) wise (German). Reflect! (Italian). Many (French) emoticons (English).

Wiktionary

Two small changes that will bring even more changing of languages: Jeg > Eg (Icelandic/Faeroes/Norwegian nynorsk) and forstår > förstår (Swedish).

sou (Portugese) = am
y (Spanish) = and

 

[Barrus]

@barrus

sorry for the typing mistakes in my post, but , believe me , in italy the law is like that.
a doctor has duties stated by the law especially if he is working in an emergency department of a public hospital .
it is compulsory for a physician to issue a medical report that is sent to the police when he come across a case in which a patient is in danger of life because violence and illegal acts, motor vehicles accidents and accidents at work included.
both autologous transfusions and doping are illegal acts according to the italian law and ricco was in danger of life.
there are strict rules in italy for blood transfusions and doping is prosecuted by the law.

Exactly what I thought, Daotec is talking out of his rear. Really there is no use in discussing with that guy. I doubt even he knows what he is talking about in certain cases

 

[craig1985]

So we can take it that Ricco is not one of the smartest tools in the shed? Does this guy have nothing going for him, I mean there is more to life then having to nearly kill yourself just to ride your bike a little bit quicker.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There you go, cause the once you like never have a happy end



I know, can't you read you're a Dr. and at the end make you agree. RFEC is just the beginning and already with cold feet in the case at once.

no, no pretty Dr. in this work you have to dig them up, you get nothing for granted, but the payoff thereafter is bitter sweet. no, no talk of doping (yet)> it's transfusion

agree, but only if he was sanctioned without that disgusting pentiti/confession... he would have been on the bike much sooner (the Keisse move), with the legal process still ongoing for rehabilitation. The Cobra took the wrong road, hauled with the enemy, pays the price for that now, and will end up a paria.




No need, open your eyes, ever seen something so self distructing ...

never said that > read again naughty boy ... but still Doping is not illegal according to European law

that's called clinic blind serious, time for a shrink maybe ?

Ok, to make sence of your posts I have been reading them in the voice of Johhny Cochrane - but it does not work on this post.

I suppose if you think I am a Doctor, then thats all I need to know.

 

[Anonymous]

Ricco's been unsurprisingly suspended by Vaconsoleil

Vacon always have been a bunch of infidels and zealots mind you.

 

[Barrus]

Ricco's been unsurprisingly suspended by Vaconsoleil

Vacon always have been a bunch of infidels and zealots mind you.

Source:

http://www.vacansoleildcm.com/nieuws/team-zet-riccardo-ricco-per-direct-op-non-actief-.html

Interesting point:

De schending van interne regels van de ploeg en overige indicaties rechtvaardigen deze maatregel.

This part states that Ricco has violated internal rules and that there are other reasons which also justify the measure.

This is all but a flat out statement that Ricco did dope, or that at least Vacansoleil is convinced that he did

 

[BotanyBay]

In other words, "We don't want to pay for his medical care, and we need to get him off the books ASAP"

 

[Barrus]

In other words, "We don't want to pay for his medical care, and we need to get him off the books ASAP"

Well not really:

Naast het op non-actief stellen staat ook de arbeidsrelatie met Riccò ter discussie, hiervoor zal de gepaste juridische weg worden bewandeld. Het team kan hier niet op vooruit lopen maar onderstreept dat zij een zero-tolerance beleid ten aanzien van doping kent.

The contract between them is on shaky grounds, but the correct legal course of action will occur. The team cannot give any outcome to this proceeding, but it restates firmly that there is a zero-tolerance policy against doping. So, it partially depends on the legal system on which their contract is based, if it is Dutch, they cant fire him as long as he is sick

 

[biopass]

Source:

http://www.vacansoleildcm.com/nieuws/team-zet-riccardo-ricco-per-direct-op-non-actief-.html

Interesting point:


This part states that Ricco has violated internal rules and that there are other reasons which also justify the measure.

This is all but a flat out statement that Ricco did dope, or that at least Vacansoleil is convinced that he did

Maybe Vancansoleil has a team policy that states a rider under investigation is suspended until the investigation is over?

 

[Barrus]

Maybe Vancansoleil has a team policy that states a rider under investigation is suspended until the investigation is over?

If that was the case it would not have said that Ricco had broken an internal rule

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If (English) I (Danish/Norwegian bokmål) change (German?) my (French) languages (Interlingua/Latin/French/?) often (Polish) enough (Dutch), then (English) the people (Dutch) understand (Danish/Norwegian bokmål) ana (?) not (Danish/Norwegian bokmål) y (?) think (French/Spanish/Latin), Я (Russian?) sou (?) very (Spanish) wise (German). Reflect! (Italian). Many (French) emoticons (English).

Wiktionary

Two small changes that will bring even more changing of languages: Jeg > Eg (Icelandic/Faeroes/Norwegian nynorsk) and forstår > förstår (Swedish).

Nice work. Greasymonkey has already pointed out two of the three you were missing (y-Spanish, sou-Portuguese)(plus there are some I took from different languages than you have them):

Linguas could also be Portuguese (though should be Línguas).
Ana is the first person pronoun in common Arabic (أنا)
Pensare was taken from Italian.

Sum total of languages used:
English
Dutch
Afrikaans
German
French
Spanish
Portuguese
Italian
Latin
Russian
Polish
Danish
Norwegian (bokmål)
Arabic

It read "if I change my languages often enough, then the people don't understand me, and think I'm very clever. Think it through! Lots of emoticons"

It was a bit of a friendly dig at Dao.

 

[Anonymous]

Its ok. I think Dao has killed this thread. It died a death as soon as he started going on about Infidels.

 

[profff]

This creates a serious dilemma for someone in Ricco's situation. He is left with a choice of telling his doctor and losing his career or keeping quiet and possibly losing his life. Most people will keep queit until the point when they think they have no other choice, by which time it might be too late.

What happens during the common case of someone with a drug overdose?

with a drug overdose the doctor just gives narcan to the patient and he issues a medical report that a person was in danger of life probably because a drug overdose.
then nothing happens because in italy personal use of drugs is not a crime.
it is a crime to sell drug to other people or to keep drug in such a quantity it cannot be considered for personal use.
so the police will receive the medical report and nobody will care about it.
very often doctors do not issue reports to the police in such cases because these reports are useless. but in theory , doctor on duty in the public hospital ( the only ones really treating emergencies) have to issue medical reports for attending patients in danger of life because of violence....

doping is a crime, so it is different.
ricco is popular, so it is different.
police and judges like to investigate on popular people, because that draws attention from the media.
if there was an unknown criterium amateur racer instead of ricco' in the emergency ward of pavullo hospital, probably things will have gone differently.
nobody at the police would have been excited by the medical report eventually issued by the doctor on duty.

anyway , in the ricco case, the doctor did not break any law , since he was working in the nhs and issued a report to the police. at the opposite, if he did not make the report, he could face a prosecution.

obviously things are different if the doctors calls the media to detail what it is happening in the ward.

i hope it is clear, because my english is not very good, but i like to write in this forum

 

[biopass]

If that was the case it would not have said that Ricco had broken an internal rule

So Ricco violated an internal rule that does not allow the team to terminate the contract.

What kind of a violation is that?

Not showing up for the Tour de Med perhaps?

 

[Barrus]

So Ricco violated an internal rule that does not allow the team to terminate the contract.

What kind of a violation is that?

Not showing up for the Tour de Med perhaps?

From the press release it is clear that it is doping related, because the decision stems from an investigation by the team into the illness and the rumours surrounding Ricco. It did not have anything to do with not showing up, it concerned the hospitalisation.

And it did not state that it did not allow the team to terminate the contract, there are legal proceedings before one can terminate the contract, also depending on the legal system which concerns the contract it might be unlawful to terminate a contract when someone is having medical care

 

[biopass]

From the press release it is clear that it is doping related, because the decision stems from an investigation by the team into the illness and the rumours surrounding Ricco. It did not have anything to do with not showing up, it concerned the hospitalisation.

And it did not state that it did not allow the team to terminate the contract, there are legal proceedings before one can terminate the contract, also depending on the legal system which concerns the contract it might be unlawful to terminate a contract when someone is having medical care

So Ricco is suspended because he is under investigation, not because he was doping?

 

[Barrus]

So Ricco is suspended because he is under investigation, not because he was doping?

No, the team had started an investigation into the hospitalization and the conclusion of that investigation was such that the team found that Ricco had violated internal rules and was therefore suspended. It all but acknowledge that Ricco doped

 

[Benotti69]

So Ricco is suspended because he is under investigation, not because he was doping?

Ricco is suspended pending Vacansoleil's investigation into alleged doping.

 

[Barrus]

Ricco is suspended pending Vacansoleil's investigation into alleged doping.

No the investigation of Vacansoleil has been concluded