Richie Porte - what do we know about him?

[ScienceIsCool]

Remember the days when GC contenders would come into a Tour with 5 extra pounds and only starting to peak so that they wouldn't collapse in the third week? When teams would "neutralize" some of the flatter stages so that the peloton could recover? When riders had to gauge their efforts before critical stages rather than hammer day in and day out?

Either human physiology has changed recently, or we're still seeing the effects of drug culture in cycling. I mean, when was the last time we even saw a realistic career arc? Talent spotted at 16. Riding pro/1/2 races by 18. Picked up by a U23 squad and sent to race in Belgium. Picked up by pro team and winning smaller stage races and lesser classics by 23. Contending for Tours by 25 while a threat in any race they enter. Peak years from 28-30, followed by a gradual decline. Retired before 35.

John Swanson

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Either human physiology has changed recently, or we're still seeing the effects of drug culture in cycling. I mean, when was the last time we even saw a realistic career arc? Talent spotted at 16. Riding pro/1/2 races by 18. Picked up by a U23 squad and sent to race in Belgium. Picked up by pro team and winning smaller stage races and lesser classics by 23. Contending for Tours by 25 while a threat in any race they enter. Peak years from 28-30, followed by a gradual decline. Retired before 35.

John Swanson

Alberto Contador? minus the racing in Belgium part

 

[harryh]

Jan Ullrich

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Remember the days when GC contenders would come into a Tour with 5 extra pounds and only starting to peak so that they wouldn't collapse in the third week? When teams would "neutralize" some of the flatter stages so that the peloton could recover? When riders had to gauge their efforts before critical stages rather than hammer day in and day out?

Either human physiology has changed recently, or we're still seeing the effects of drug culture in cycling. I mean, when was the last time we even saw a realistic career arc? Talent spotted at 16. Riding pro/1/2 races by 18. Picked up by a U23 squad and sent to race in Belgium. Picked up by pro team and winning smaller stage races and lesser classics by 23. Contending for Tours by 25 while a threat in any race they enter. Peak years from 28-30, followed by a gradual decline. Retired before 35.

John Swanson

I don't think it's just doping that has caused the changes in how GT's are races; although it's undoubtedly one of the main factors. The widespread use of power meters has been the biggest change in my opinion. Every rider now has a number that they know they can keep going at almost indefinitely with the right nutrition; another number which they can climb at without going into the red and be able to repeat the same tomorrow; another number that they should sustain throughout the time trial. They have a number telling them when they are fresh enough to put in and sustain a big attack, and equally know more or less what number their rivals can put out.

It leads to racing by numbers; the rider with the highest numbers will win. Tactics in a GT very rarely matter any more because everyone knows that a rider can't sustain a high powered attack, or, if he does, that he will suffer in later stages. They can just look at their stem to see that, they don't have to worry about if they are having a 'bad day' and recklessly follow the attack, because they have the numbers to reassure them.

Another factor is the advances in bikes which means that changing gear under load, or cornering on slightly dodgy tyres are no longer skills which set some riders apart; everyone has electronic shifting which rarely if ever fails, and tyres that makes it almost impossible to slide out on corners.

Now we're seeing gimmicks like stupidly steep climbs, cobbles and sterrato roads becoming regular features of GT's, because these are the only things that can begin to disrupt the riding by numbers.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

Either human physiology has changed recently, or we're still seeing the effects of drug culture in cycling. I mean, when was the last time we even saw a realistic career arc? Talent spotted at 16. Riding pro/1/2 races by 18. Picked up by a U23 squad and sent to race in Belgium. Picked up by pro team and winning smaller stage races and lesser classics by 23. Contending for Tours by 25 while a threat in any race they enter. Peak years from 28-30, followed by a gradual decline. Retired before 35.

John Swanson

Alberto Contador? minus the racing in Belgium part

Kind of, yeah. He and Cadel Evans have had the most "natural" career arcs in the modern era that I can think of.

John Swanson

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

Remember the days when GC contenders would come into a Tour with 5 extra pounds and only starting to peak so that they wouldn't collapse in the third week? When teams would "neutralize" some of the flatter stages so that the peloton could recover? When riders had to gauge their efforts before critical stages rather than hammer day in and day out?

Either human physiology has changed recently, or we're still seeing the effects of drug culture in cycling. I mean, when was the last time we even saw a realistic career arc? Talent spotted at 16. Riding pro/1/2 races by 18. Picked up by a U23 squad and sent to race in Belgium. Picked up by pro team and winning smaller stage races and lesser classics by 23. Contending for Tours by 25 while a threat in any race they enter. Peak years from 28-30, followed by a gradual decline. Retired before 35.

John Swanson

I don't think it's just doping that has caused the changes in how GT's are races; although it's undoubtedly one of the main factors. The widespread use of power meters has been the biggest change in my opinion. Every rider now has a number that they know they can keep going at almost indefinitely with the right nutrition; another number which they can climb at without going into the red and be able to repeat the same tomorrow; another number that they should sustain throughout the time trial. They have a number telling them when they are fresh enough to put in and sustain a big attack, and equally know more or less what number their rivals can put out.

It leads to racing by numbers; the rider with the highest numbers will win. Tactics in a GT very rarely matter any more because everyone knows that a rider can't sustain a high powered attack, or, if he does, that he will suffer in later stages. They can just look at their stem to see that, they don't have to worry about if they are having a 'bad day' and recklessly follow the attack, because they have the numbers to reassure them.

Another factor is the advances in bikes which means that changing gear under load, or cornering on slightly dodgy tyres are no longer skills which set some riders apart; everyone has electronic shifting which rarely if ever fails, and tyres that makes it almost impossible to slide out on corners.

Now we're seeing gimmicks like stupidly steep climbs, cobbles and sterrato roads becoming regular features of GT's, because these are the only things that can begin to disrupt the riding by numbers.

I completely buy that with some big caveats. Tires used to be pretty darn good - handmade tubulars that handled very well. Getting in the right gear before a sprint was crucial, but it was quite easy to change gears during a climb without too much hassle.

But the biggie is that although a rider can race by watching their stem, modern day recoveries appear to be heavily fueled by drugs. I challenge anyone to ride four to six hours a day, with one of those hours at FTP, every day for three weeks. By the end of week two, you'll start to fall apart. For example, hematocrit drops which means no more racing at FTP.

 

[SeriousSam]

Well, the riders you see in the Tour are not at all like us. They are tremendously talented and have been training hard for years and years. Who is to say what things would look like with only pre epo doping.

Performances in all sports improve even if you take away doping. That's because of advances in nutrition, training and competition, as well as larger and larger samples to draw athletes from. We don't know what things would be like in a world without EPO, except that athletes would be stronger, faster and with greater stamina than they were before EPO because decades have passed.

ScienceIsCool is spot on. Knowledge of the physics problem that is the riding a bicycle in various terrains has trickled down into competitive cycling and is being made use of. That's the main contributor to the sort of tactics and riding we see today.

 

[Benotti69]

Riding by numbers especially aided by PEDs has made racing pretty predictable. But this year we are seeing repeats of epo years where it appears the main PED 'system' has spread throughout the peloton. Large groups of contendors arriving to finishes together, see Paris Roubaix, FW, AGR.

 

[Jeremiah]

Re:

Well, the riders you see in the Tour are not at all like us. They are tremendously talented and have been training hard for years and years. Who is to say what things would look like with only pre epo doping. .

They don't get sick under stress? I'm calling bs.

Performances in all sports improve even if you take away doping. That's because of advances in nutrition, training and competition, as well as larger and larger samples to draw athletes from. We don't know what things would be like in a world without EPO, except that athletes would be stronger, faster and with greater stamina than they were before EPO because decades have passed. .

They don't improve by that much. Human recovery doesn't improve by that much. The advances in training and nutrition are horse$hit. Look at what Porte said, he's drinking less. Wow! A real nutritional advance. Also anyone who has ever been absurdly lean on top of being naturally lean knows that they are susceptible to all sorts of illnesses and that they can't keep that "form" for any length of time.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Given that it's what RIchie has done, I find it interesting that the "race to win" mantra has not been repeated this year.

Remember the old way of training big miles then racing yourself into form was belittled by Sky, who claimed you should train hard and then race to win - it was with Brad at the time, from memory?

I also wonder how hungry he is going to be, mentally, although a contract year will probably help keep his level up there also.

 

[blackcat]

Richie is looking so lean now, i think the OP's original title, "Little Richie Porte; what do we know about him?" looks felicitous, certainly, more felicitous that merely Richie Porte: what do we know about him?

I think we can go back to the original OP, and reinsert Little appellation, cos he is little now, certainly, more little.

 

[Ferminal]

Ha, you were the one who complained!

Not so little as much as looking like a *** machine.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Either human physiology has changed recently, or we're still seeing the effects of drug culture in cycling. I mean, when was the last time we even saw a realistic career arc? Talent spotted at 16. Riding pro/1/2 races by 18. Picked up by a U23 squad and sent to race in Belgium. Picked up by pro team and winning smaller stage races and lesser classics by 23. Contending for Tours by 25 while a threat in any race they enter. Peak years from 28-30, followed by a gradual decline. Retired before 35.

John Swanson

Alberto Contador? minus the racing in Belgium part

Kind of, yeah. He and Cadel Evans have had the most "natural" career arcs in the modern era that I can think of.

John Swanson

This looks like a promising career arc for a 26-year-old. Starting on a Continental team, moving to a small Pro team, then onto a larger one. Consistent improvement with no huge jumps. Starting .1 races at 19.

Not going to be a Tour contender though.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Ha, you were the one who complained!

Not so little as much as looking like a **** machine.

i know, tongue firmly in cheek

 

[Ferminal]

Re: Re:

Either human physiology has changed recently, or we're still seeing the effects of drug culture in cycling. I mean, when was the last time we even saw a realistic career arc? Talent spotted at 16. Riding pro/1/2 races by 18. Picked up by a U23 squad and sent to race in Belgium. Picked up by pro team and winning smaller stage races and lesser classics by 23. Contending for Tours by 25 while a threat in any race they enter. Peak years from 28-30, followed by a gradual decline. Retired before 35.

John Swanson

Alberto Contador? minus the racing in Belgium part

Kind of, yeah. He and Cadel Evans have had the most "natural" career arcs in the modern era that I can think of.

John Swanson

This looks like a promising career arc for a 26-year-old. Starting on a Continental team, moving to a small Pro team, then onto a larger one. Consistent improvement with no huge jumps. Starting .1 races at 19.

Not going to be a Tour contender though.

Yeh, Ion highlights the misguidedness of the "progression" argument rather well, according to cq progression a top10 in a GT this year and a top5 next year wouldn't be unexpected.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

Does the fact that he is leading the UCI rankings mean he is the best? He is top because he started his season earlier and raced the Tour Down Under, something which no other top riders bother with. He was a fortunate winner of Catalunya. Okay, he was pretty dominant in Paris Nice but he didn't have to beat a single rider there who could be considered a GC contender in Grand Tours. Let's see if he is top of the UCI rankings at the end of the year, not in april.

"To be honest I didn’t feel fantastic today, I only came down from altitude on Friday and so to win with legs I had today was massive confidence boost. The effort the team put in was really the cherry on the icing on the cake," Porte said.

Marginal gain, coming from altitude and kill the field with ease.

Skyfans are the best, they really dont understand how things like altitude training work.

Too bad Ritchie isnt riding Liege, he would have done 'a Vandenbroucke' on Saint Nicolas.

 

[darwin553]

Go Richie Porte!!

 

[Irondan]

Re:

I'm basing my judgement on his actual performances, not some flawed ranking system which gave him 86 points for racing some egg and spoon contest in Australia which no other top cyclists bother with. His performances in the first part of 2013 were every bit as ridiculous as anything he has done this year. I am looking forward to seeing him fail in the Giro. If he goes and wins there (or even manages to give Contador a proper race), I will be the first to admit I was wrong

I hate to say this but he keeps winning... His competition in Trentino was rather pedestrian outside of Landa, but even Mikel Landa shines in races where there's suspect competition.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Smells like a too early peak to me.

You can 'peak' all season long when a member of Sky Procycling Team. They use the 'Marginal Gains' method to achieve this, remember? This is what their other riders have used in the past to achieve a season long 'peak'. Otherwise, the only way to 'peak' all season long is to use PED's. Also, little Richie stopped drinking beer...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I guess we only have to wait 2 weeks to find out
And then another couple to see what happens on them thar queen stages...

 

[SeriousSam]

The suspense is killing me. Has Lil Richie taken it to next level like Brad and Dawg before him?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If the TT gap is more than 90 seconds then the answer is a big fat, lil yes.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

The suspense is killing me. Has Lil Richie taken it to next level like Brad and Dawg before him?

I sure hope so.. Only to see Brailsford try to explain his way out of that with some more clinic fodder.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

If the TT gap is more than 90 seconds then the answer is a big fat, lil yes.

I think Berto and Berto will be close to him

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

Well, the riders you see in the Tour are not at all like us. They are tremendously talented and have been training hard for years and years. Who is to say what things would look like with only pre epo doping.

Performances in all sports improve even if you take away doping. That's because of advances in nutrition, training and competition, as well as larger and larger samples to draw athletes from. We don't know what things would be like in a world without EPO, except that athletes would be stronger, faster and with greater stamina than they were before EPO because decades have passed.

ScienceIsCool is spot on. Knowledge of the physics problem that is the riding a bicycle in various terrains has trickled down into competitive cycling and is being made use of. That's the main contributor to the sort of tactics and riding we see today.

well, performances improve tremendously, just with one exception: The Hour on Eddy's bike