Riis close to Collapse after Contador 'surprise'?

[sniper]

Appeared rather as a sidenote to Fuentes internationally, I guess.
In Germany, Jaksche's allegation's created a fuss in the media, maybe his stories got too iconsistent or he just didn't work out as a TV doping expert. Media simply lost interest in him.



Good obersavtion, reminds me how he describes in his book that he tried to never actually say "I don't dope"

yeah, that is striking indeed. dopers use lots of circumcisive negations such as "I never did anything illegal" and the number 1: "I never cheated". And it's true in their eyes, cuz they know everybody does it so they don't see it as cheating.

 

[JPM London]

He's never met him. Has he referred riders to him, though? Did he know his contact info?

Good obersavtion, reminds me how he describes in his book that he tried to never actually say "I don't dope"

Very good observation - except he also says "I don't know him".
From what I know about Riis and how he communicates he's either got no connection to Fuentes or he's actually flat out lying, which he's never been really good at...

However, it doesn't rule out that his friend Cecchini knows Fuentes and that LC referred people to EF. And it doesn't rule out that Riis would know or suspect this.

My honest belief is that Riis did not want doping on his team, but that he's always been a "trust" person and thus riders could easily go behind his back. After having the Basso case he got the monitoring programme set up. The on-team cases have all been prior to this (when was the Schleck payment said to have happened?).

It's still quite weird he would know nothing about Tyler's weird "via Madrid" itineraries...

 

[hrotha]

The way I see it, "I don't know him" and "I've never met him" are pretty much synonymous.

As for riders going behind his back, if we believe Jaksche there was no going behind his back. He knew. If Hamilton confirms this, it starts being quite believable.

 

[sniper]

Very good observation - except he also says "I don't know him".
From what I know about Riis and how he communicates he's either got no connection to Fuentes or he's actually flat out lying, which he's never been really good at...

However, it doesn't rule out that his friend Cecchini knows Fuentes and that LC referred people to EF. And it doesn't rule out that Riis would know or suspect this.

My honest belief is that Riis did not want doping on his team, but that he's always been a "trust" person and thus riders could easily go behind his back. After having the Basso case he got the monitoring programme set up. The on-team cases have all been prior to this (when was the Schleck payment said to have happened?).

It's still quite weird he would know nothing about Tyler's weird "via Madrid" itineraries...

I wonder if he was wearing sunglasses when he said it.
would have made the flatout lying a bit easier.

 

[GJB123]

I think we need to wait and read what Hamilton actually exactly stated. This kind of leaks and part quotations can be quite of the mark as to what someone actually stated. It might well be that Riis didn't direct Hamilton to Fuentes, but I highly doubt he didn't know Hamilton was going there (or Basso or F. Schleck for that matter).

Regards
GJ

 

[Benotti69]

Sowho introduced Frank Schleck to Fuentes?

 

[screaming fist]

When gets Race Radio home to read?

 

[Alpehue]

probably there's nothing new in comparison to what we could assume. to me, this ultimately confirms that riis knew everything about basso. bjarne surely denies everything. sadly, looks like lie is the only thing that keeps this sport afloat...

Why is it that everytime i see your name on the forums, it seems to be you thinking everything is bad, everyone is lieing, doping or generally idiots(Anyone that disagree with you) ?

 

[Alpehue]

Appeared rather as a sidenote to Fuentes internationally, I guess.
In Germany, Jaksche's allegation's created a fuss in the media, maybe his stories got too iconsistent or he just didn't work out as a TV doping expert. Media simply lost interest in him.



Good obersavtion, reminds me how he describes in his book that he tried to never actually say "I don't dope"

He also said.

The Danish team owner is very specific in his denial that he should have introduced the American rider of doping doctor Fuentes.

- I can absolutely clear deny that it should be the case. It is simply not true, says Bjarne Riis Ritzau.

 

[airstream]

Why is it that everytime i see your name on the forums, it seems to be you thinking everything is bad, everyone is lieing, doping or generally idiots(Anyone that disagree with you) ?

What is bad? Yes, I tend to think the whole GC super elite is lying and doping. That's part of the sport. Cycling needs global anti doping reforms, but sadly I don't see how it can be implemented quickly.

As to Contador fans, part of them don't know the factor "the opponents can be very good too". So I'm entitled to speak out on the matter as I did.

 

[webvan]

If Hamilton is telling the truth, why wouldn't he, and can back it up, Riis needs to go, enough is enough, can't USADA get on his case too?

 

[Antianti]

Well, we don't actually know what Hamilton has written, do we?

 

[Cimber]

probably there's nothing new in comparison to what we could assume. to me, this ultimately confirms that riis knew everything about basso. bjarne surely denies everything. sadly, looks like lie is the only thing that keeps this sport afloat...

ye he probably knew everything about Andy and Fränk too. But one thing is knowing, another is actively promoting use of doping.

 

[JPM London]

If Hamilton is telling the truth, why wouldn't he, and can back it up, Riis needs to go, enough is enough, can't USADA get on his case too?

Steady now - currently we don't even know what Tyler did or didn't write. We know what somebody else has quoted... or as GJB puts it so nicely:

I think we need to wait and read what Hamilton actually exactly stated. This kind of leaks and part quotations can be quite of the mark as to what someone actually stated. It might well be that Riis didn't direct Hamilton to Fuentes, but I highly doubt he didn't know Hamilton was going there (or Basso or F. Schleck for that matter).

Regards
GJ

So introduced Frank Schleck to Fuentes?

Amigo de Birillo per chance?

 

[Fidolix]

It is starting to look like it is time to burn it to ground and start again.

Especially when fans think it is ok for cheating because everyone was doing it.

Riis amitted to doping as a rider when it was going to finger him in the T-Mobile investigation. He had no choice. He did not admit to being a DS that enabled doping. That is a whole other level. I want to see him and all the other doping teams/DS/doctors etc out of the sport.

You really think I approve of doping just because everybody were doing it?

Assumptions are the reasons to all fukups.
No, I don´t approve of doping, not in a million years, I just state the obvious known to most. It dosen´t matter much when Riis admitted it, or what he admitted.
With Franks so called training plans with Fuentes, and Bassos blood test samples same place, I don´t think anybody doubt his involvment, not as DS either.

If he had implied doping as a DS, he would have to hang out riders to dry, which I don´t think he would ever do, so his lack of admission in this regard, I take as a natural course.

I was the first to say Riis should have been banned from all cycling af his admission, but again, everybody was doped, and to be honest, there are bigger hypocrits than Bjarne.

 

[JPM London]

Thx, I am quite fluent in German, so that will work out.

And my German is quite rusty

From skimming the mangled google-translate version it seems to me the Riis incrimination is very little? But he does give quite a lot of detail...

Would either of you care to attempt a proper translation of the main bits??

 

[JPM London]

Posted by Hog in the Tyler Book thread:

@NYDNSportsITeam: Hamilton book: "Then Bjarne gave me the phone number of a man who would define my life for the next few years: Dr. Eufemiano Fuentes."

 

[Benotti69]

Posted by Hog in the Tyler Book thread:

@NYDNSportsITeam: Hamilton book: "Then Bjarne gave me the phone number of a man who would define my life for the next few years: Dr. Eufemiano Fuentes."

So Riis didn't lie about the introduction but he did give him his phone number.

But does that mean that Riis lied about knowing him.

 

[JPM London]

So Riis didn't lie about the introduction but he did give him his phone number.

But does that mean that Riis lied about knowing him.

I want that book - like NOW! This is book PR that's working

 

[hrotha]

We have Basso, Fränk and Hamilton linked to Fuentes without having gone through ONCE/Liberty. Hamilton says the link was Riis. Honestly it's starting to look pretty definite to me.

Interesting that Sastre has never been linked to Fuentes despite riding for Saiz and Riis almost his whole career, that's a good sign. I wonder if Hamilton has anything to say about him.

 

[JPM London]

We have Basso, Fränk and Hamilton linked to Fuentes without having gone through ONCE/Liberty. Hamilton says the link was Riis. Honestly it's starting to look pretty definite to me.

Interesting that Sastre has never been linked to Fuentes despite riding for Saiz and Riis almost his whole career, that's a good sign. I wonder if Hamilton has anything to say about him.

Sastre is indeed an interesting one...

 

[GJB123]

We have Basso, Fränk and Hamilton linked to Fuentes without having gone through ONCE/Liberty. Hamilton says the link was Riis. Honestly it's starting to look pretty definite to me.

Interesting that Sastre has never been linked to Fuentes despite riding for Saiz and Riis almost his whole career, that's a good sign. I wonder if Hamilton has anything to say about him.

Like I said, it could very well be that Riis is not so much the organizer or linking pin but rather in the know and not really caring as long as they keep their noses clean. Who knows he might have given Hamilton the number after he got it of one of his other riders. However, it doe seem highly unlikely that Riis was unaware of Fuentes, his practices and the fact that his riders visited Fuentes.

Regards
GJ

 

[Benotti69]

I too would like to hear if there is anything about Sastre.

Most seem to think he was clean, but his teams and DSs suggest otherwise.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

We have Basso, Fränk and Hamilton linked to Fuentes without having gone through ONCE/Liberty. Hamilton says the link was Riis. Honestly it's starting to look pretty definite to me.

Interesting that Sastre has never been linked to Fuentes despite riding for Saiz and Riis almost his whole career, that's a good sign. I wonder if Hamilton has anything to say about him.

I thought it was quite common knowledge Riis brought his riders to dottore Luigi who sent the riders for the preporatore to Fuentes?

Sastre is still an enigma:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/jul/28/tourdefrance.cycling

"Even if we have different ideas," he said, "he [Saiz] taught me how to be a professional. He's a person who is 10 years ahead of his time and he's given a lot to this sport." In Spain, nevertheless, Sastre himself has been nicknamed Don Limpio, or Mr Clean

 

[JPM London]

I wonder if he was wearing sunglasses when he said it.
would have made the flatout lying a bit easier.

Heh, that's a good one!

But now, it seems, we can possibly finish Riis' sentence for him:

"I don't know him, I have never met him - but I do have his phone number from Luigi and I tend to give it to my new proteges. Obviously I didn't need to with Alberto as he knew him already."