Riis close to Collapse after Contador 'surprise'?

[sniper]

I've pointed this out a million times, but people never seem to stop with this argument.

Sastre did not collapse completely after his TDF title...he followed up by being on the podium in the two next GT's he did (Vuelta 2008, Giro 2009 + 2 stages). So he was on the podium for three consecutive GT's...I don't know if anyone else has managed that? Of course, he wasn't himself in the TDF 2009, but come on, that was his 4th grand tour in a row, no one would be able to pull that off. The next year age started catching up with him (8th Giro, 20th TDF, 8th Vuelta), which is only natural for a clean athlete.

When Riis said something like "Sastre doesn't take his training seriously enough and could be a much better rider" one could wonder whether that statement actually was concerning Sastre's denial to take anything.

Sastre was a trendsetter.
Win one TdF, stay in shape for a couple more months to not look suspicious and cash in your bonusses, and then jump off the PED ship. Greedy guys like Contador didn't spot the trend and were punished for it. But Evans was a good student of Sastre's and I think we wont see much of Wiggins next year either (but I might be wrong as far as wiggo is concerned).

 

[JPM London]

When Riis said something like "Sastre doesn't take his training seriously enough and could be a much better rider" one could wonder whether that statement actually was concerning Sastre's denial to take anything.

Heh - had completely forgotten that quote. Also seem to remember something about Sastre and Riis never being as close as Riis was with Tyler, Basso and the Schlecks...

On another note - if this thing sinks Riis and the Schlecks it should swallow Kim Andersen as well... I can't see how he could be milling about there completely clueless...

Sastre was a trendsetter.
... and I think we wont see much of Wiggins next year either (but I might be wrong as far as wiggo is concerned).

Thanks for the digging earlier Sniper - interesting stuff, not least the thesis/book thing.

On this, though, it's funny that Wiggins has already noted he might not ride the Tour next year. Don't know if you've read that already and decided to make a half-backwards clever remark though

 

[sniper]

...
On this, though, it's funny that Wiggins has already noted he might not ride the Tour next year. Don't know if you've read that already and decided to make a half-backwards clever remark though

ha! nope, hadn't read that! confirms the plausibility of my hypothesis
but yes, clever from wiggins IMO. if the tides turn on the UCI, wiggo and sky could end up on the wrong pages of the history books.

 

[hrotha]

Sastre was a trendsetter.
Win one TdF, stay in shape for a couple more months to not look suspicious and cash in your bonusses, and then jump off the PED ship. Greedy guys like Contador didn't spot the trend and were punished for it. But Evans was a good student of Sastre's and I think we wont see much of Wiggins next year either (but I might be wrong as far as wiggo is concerned).

That might be plausible if we ignored Sastre's whole GT career, which has been one of the most consistent ones of the last decade.

 

[Benotti69]

That might be plausible if we ignored Sastre's whole GT career, which has been one of the most consistent ones of the last decade.

Consistency in the last decade can only come with doping.

I cant see Wiggins being in shape to win anything next year. He has taken to the celebrity lifestyle like a duck to water.

 

[hrotha]

Consistency in the last decade can only come with doping.

I cant see Wiggins being in shape to win anything next year. He has taken to the celebrity lifestyle like a duck to water.

I'm not saying Sastre was clean (although I'll defend his right to not be considered more dodgier than Evans), but to suggest that Sastre had a drop in performance due to his quitting the PEDs, at 34, after a long career or being roughly at the same level, sounds like bending the facts a bit too much.

 

[maltiv]

Sastre was a trendsetter.
Win one TdF, stay in shape for a couple more months to not look suspicious and cash in your bonusses, and then jump off the PED ship. Greedy guys like Contador didn't spot the trend and were punished for it. But Evans was a good student of Sastre's and I think we wont see much of Wiggins next year either (but I might be wrong as far as wiggo is concerned).

That's one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Sastre is one of the most consistent GT riders of all times. 14 GT top 10's...

Also when you look at his career his GT results improve steadily every year until he was 32-34, after which he started fading slowly. I honestly can't see a career development that would be less suspicious than that.

 

[RichWalk]

Consistency in the last decade can only come with doping.

I cant see Wiggins being in shape to win anything next year. He has taken to the celebrity lifestyle like a duck to water.

and the temerity to say his Tour was ruined by doping suspicions, vs the Olympics, given the potential scope of the cover up thats unfolding/been going on, that really would be the last topic I'd have mentioned, esp if you are 'clean' Do they guys have press agents, if not they sure as hell need some

 

[JPM London]

A few more comments from Jakob Piil:

"In Piils time Bjarne Riis' team did team owner keen to tell riders that he did not accept doping, but it may prove to be just a facade.
"There may well be two sides of the case, in which the side, I know - it is pure cycling team," says Jakob Piil.
"My view has always been that I drove for a clean team. So it surprises me too, and I am deeply disappointed with my teammates, if it all fits."

"Do you think Bjarne Riis has been a part of this?
"It's hard to say. I could not imagine it, but much could indicate it with all the accusations coming towards him. But I have not noticed anything, so I have a little trouble putting it all together, "said Piil."

If he wasn't clean himself, he would probably have gone with the "Tyler's a bitter old man - nothing to see here" brigade. Like Arvesen and Sastre he's open to the possibility. He's not as suspecting as Weltz, though, but not many are that open-mouthed!

 

[sniper]

missing the point

That's one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

that's flattering.

Also when you look at his career his GT results improve steadily every year until he was 32-34, after which he started fading slowly. I honestly can't see a career development that would be less suspicious than that.

You win the tour the france once, nothing wrong, you win it twice, guys like Wonderboy get envious, guys like Phat start sending your bloodsamples to specialized labs, and so on. Pharmstrong and UCI couldn't care less what Sastre was doing in those other GTs. Other GTs don't have anything to do with the trend I was only half seriously postulating.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm not saying Sastre was clean (although I'll defend his right to not be considered more dodgier than Evans), but to suggest that Sastre had a drop in performance due to his quitting the PEDs, at 34, after a long career or being roughly at the same level, sounds like bending the facts a bit too much.

I think if we look back at Evans we see another guy who performed highly and consistently in an era of doping. Which i have always questioned.

To top 15 in a TdF in those years had to be performance enhanced.

That have been very quiet and gona about their business and tried to stay off the 'doping radar' in the media and internets.

I think Sastre lost motivation. He quit, legacy wise, a year too late. But i dont have problem with career arcs starting low rising to a height and ending low. That is a career.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I think if we look back at Evans we see another guy who performed highly and consistently in an era of doping. Which i have always questioned.

To top 15 in a TdF in those years had to be performance enhanced.

That have been very quiet and gona about their business and tried to stay off the 'doping radar' in the media and internets.

I think Sastre lost motivation. He quit, legacy wise, a year too late. But i dont have problem with career arcs starting low rising to a height and ending low. That is a career.

Evans, for someone whose career has spent being mugged off by dopers, is very silent. I don't know about you, but if I had spent all my time riding clean and getting beaten by dopers I'd be i) very ****ed off about it and ii) telling everyone how ****ed off I was about it. I wouldn't be taking it like a prison *****.

Draw your own conclusions I guess.

 

[hektoren]

Riis is soon to be burnt to a crisp unless he's willing to be less economical with the truth, which is bound to damn him anyway. Riis is history, full stop. The toasted eagle of Herning. Time to look closely at that pension-plan and get that bungalow in Andalucia while it's cheap. By taking a mere glance in my crystal-ball I foresee a future with a lot of alcohol in a tempered climate for Bjarne. Good riddance. Fake, fake, fake. How he ever got those sponsors to part with their money is a conundrum within a riddle within a problem....

 

[iZnoGouD]

Evans, for someone whose career has spent being mugged off by dopers, is very silent. I don't know about you, but if I had spent all my time riding clean and getting beaten by dopers I'd be i) very ****ed off about it and ii) telling everyone how ****ed off I was about it. I wouldn't be taking it like a prison *****.

Draw your own conclusions I guess.

+1 lol

I will tell Machado after the Vuelta that if he wants to win races he needs to dope, training hard is not enough

 

[thehog]

 

[Cavalier]

Evans, for someone whose career has spent being mugged off by dopers, is very silent. I don't know about you, but if I had spent all my time riding clean and getting beaten by dopers I'd be i) very ****ed off about it and ii) telling everyone how ****ed off I was about it. I wouldn't be taking it like a prison *****.

Draw your own conclusions I guess.

Depends on your personality though. Evans has never been the type to spout off in public. He didn't when he was getting screwed at Telekom, and he didn't when he was ****ed off at Lotto (bar the occasional 'don't step on my dog' etc). He's always been hyper-guarded in his press comments, and I think it's because he genuinely doesn't care for the fame+fortune side of things. Even in Australia since his TdF win he's been pretty quiet outside of the week or two after he won.
He's the epitome of 'nothing controversial', and that to an extent could be to his beliefs (Tibet, Dalai Lama etc). People have different reactions to events. It could be simply that Evans doesn't care to revisit it, because it won't change anything.

 

[JPM London]

This is too effing funny... Weltz - who says he left CSC because he suspected something was wrong and didn't like the people hanging around - is being named by Tyler as an EPO courier...

 

[sniper]

This is too effing funny... Weltz - who says he left CSC because he suspected something was wrong and didn't like the people hanging around - is being named by Tyler as an EPO courier...

ehm..ouch?

 

[jyhjyh]

The sponsors still support Riis.

Riis is soon to be burnt to a crisp unless he's willing to be less economical with the truth, which is bound to damn him anyway. Riis is history, full stop. The toasted eagle of Herning. Time to look closely at that pension-plan and get that bungalow in Andalucia while it's cheap. By taking a mere glance in my crystal-ball I foresee a future with a lot of alcohol in a tempered climate for Bjarne. Good riddance. Fake, fake, fake. How he ever got those sponsors to part with their money is a conundrum within a riddle within a problem....

From: http://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/ECE1743775/riis-storsponsor-loese-dopingpaastande-aendrer-intet/

Saxo Bank:
"For us there is no case. We can not decide to resolve claims, and certainly not when there is talk about something that happened so long before that Saxo Bank came into the picture as a sponsor. "
How could we know if it is true? We do not care about rumors and trust one hundred percent of Bjarne Riis, said communications director."

Tinkoff Bank:
"I believe in @ saxobanktinkoff and @ albertocontador today, and look forward to our first stage win. Full support for Bjarne Riis despite all bull****". Oleg Tinkov wrote on his Twitter profile.

 

[sniper]

Riis is soon to be burnt to a crisp unless he's willing to be less economical with the truth, which is bound to damn him anyway. Riis is history, full stop. The toasted eagle of Herning. Time to look closely at that pension-plan and get that bungalow in Andalucia while it's cheap. By taking a mere glance in my crystal-ball I foresee a future with a lot of alcohol in a tempered climate for Bjarne. Good riddance. Fake, fake, fake. How he ever got those sponsors to part with their money is a conundrum within a riddle within a problem....

One conclusion could be that sponsors prefer DSs who know how to dope without getting caught, or at least how to get caught rarely enough not to damage the overall profits.
Seriously, why do we see so many pharmaceutical companies involved in cycling? On darker days I sometimes ponder whether the pharm industry sees cycling as their experimental lab and cyclists as labrats.

 

[Alpehue]

Former saxobank employee dosent beleive hammilton.

Basicly the guy is saying the worked for them during the tour when hammilton was there, and how he could walk around free in the hotel, visit the riders whenever he wanted to, and how close he were to hammilton.

Yet he says he saw nothing at all that made him suspicious. And how he is convinced hammilton is just desperatly trying to make money.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1820950.ece

 

[roundabout]

Yikes.

I have a bridge to sell to anyone who doesn't believe that Hamilton was doping in the 2003 Tour.

 

[Alpehue]

Yikes.

I have a bridge to sell to anyone who doesn't believe that Hamilton was doping in the 2003 Tour.

Im sure he did, but im not sure Bjarne hooked him up

 

[neineinei]

Hamilton: Riis met Fuentes

Hamilton has given new information in an interview with the Danish News Agency Ritzau. He says he, Riis and Fuentes met in a hotel room in Madrid, probably in April, in either 2002 or 2003. Hamilton doesn't remember which year, but it was after the Tour of the Basque Country in 2002 or 2003.

"- Der var én gang, jeg var på et hotelværelse med Bjarne Riis, Eufemiano Fuentes - og mig selv. Jeg ved de mødtes. Jeg så det med mine egne øjne. Du kan tro det, hvis du vil, og hvis du ikke gør, så gør du ikke. Men det er sandheden. Måske har Bjarne glemt det. Han kan sige, hvad han har lyst til, siger Tyler Hamilton til Ritzau."

"- There was one time I was in a hotel room with Bjarne Riis, Eufemiano Fuentes - and myself. I know they met. I saw it with my own eyes. You can believe it if you want, and if you do not, then you do not. But it's the truth. Maybe Bjarne forget it. He can say what he wants, says Tyler Hamilton to Ritzau." (Google translate)

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1822055.ece Danish

http://translate.google.no/translat...trabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1822055.ece Google translate

 

[neineinei]

More of the Ritzau interwiev:

http://jyllands-posten.dk/sport/cykling/article4833076.ece (Danish)

- It was just an ugly time, and I'm not trying to point the finger at anyone. It is the whole culture. I think the sport has changed a lot in the last 10 years, but there are still some facts that must out in the open before we can move forward.

- I think that Bjarne Riis is a good person for the sport. But to get things right now, we need full transparency.