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Willing to volunteer time as a moderator? We'd love to hear from you!
- Mar 18, 2009
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Giuseppe Magnetico said:
Wow. Legend in his own mind. I think the only person who has been chased out of here with a severe case of butthurt is you, who has often gone off in a huff when a thread did not go your way. And Boeing a "notorious thread destroyer"? Really? LOL. That is a stretch even for your mischaracterizations, which seem to be the bedrock of your new argumentative personality. You have lost it, dude. Making a low rent copy of someone else's anonym does not make you a Damiano Machiavelli.
You initiated this thread with the specific purpose of starting an argument so you could attack a strawman, ignoring what anyone actually wrote and instead railing against your own personal bogeymen. Now you are angry your planned result occurred.
Sorry if you cannot understand that people might want to wait for development of a technology to stabilize, but industry loyalists like you were extolling the virtues of ISIS BBs a few years ago so I guess it is understandable.
- Jul 10, 2010
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Boeing said:
You mean pedal?
https://www.google.com/search?q=qui...AP2toD4Aw&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1186&bih=696
- Jul 10, 2010
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Guys guys guys. I go away for a week on business, and come back to schoolyard fighting.
Looks like some folks are having a bad day, and it is perhaps time for all involved to take a voluntary week off, and cool off.
I'll have to take a look at what's been going on. Obviously some rules have been contravened. I can't stay on the forum tonight - but if I need to hand out suspensions, I'll do it. If you are having a bad day, and being a general grouch, I would appreciate an open apology and edit your own insults out. It'll save me from coming back and doing for ya. We all understand bad days. If you're just having a bad week, well, we all feel for ya.
I also understand we don't all hold the highest opinions of all the other board participants. Keep that to yourself. We don't need public spatting, it serves no purpose whatsoever. You don't even feel better when you've spouted it all out - not for longer than 30 seconds, anyway. We have a rep as being a free-wheeling board - but you can be free-wheeling and not pick a fight.
I'll see you guys again in a day or two. I already took longer than I meant to for today.
Looks like some folks are having a bad day, and it is perhaps time for all involved to take a voluntary week off, and cool off.
I'll have to take a look at what's been going on. Obviously some rules have been contravened. I can't stay on the forum tonight - but if I need to hand out suspensions, I'll do it. If you are having a bad day, and being a general grouch, I would appreciate an open apology and edit your own insults out. It'll save me from coming back and doing for ya. We all understand bad days. If you're just having a bad week, well, we all feel for ya.
I also understand we don't all hold the highest opinions of all the other board participants. Keep that to yourself. We don't need public spatting, it serves no purpose whatsoever. You don't even feel better when you've spouted it all out - not for longer than 30 seconds, anyway. We have a rep as being a free-wheeling board - but you can be free-wheeling and not pick a fight.
I'll see you guys again in a day or two. I already took longer than I meant to for today.
- Jul 17, 2009
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I beg to differ. We are not fighting at all This is how we talk to each other. we only insult our friends. the others we ignore. that's the way its been for a few years now. the other mods know this and its news to you? all good. thats the way guys talk to each other in the peloton and on training rides too btw. so you must ride alone? n'est Pas?
a lot of inside joking going one here. read between the lines ad we are all good. bro deal and GPrdv remember stuff I posted years ago like old school and throw it back at me and I love that about these guys
peace
back to the lyrics in context...' there's more to a picture than meets the eye, hey hey my my.'. sing with me H
a lot of inside joking going one here. read between the lines ad we are all good. bro deal and GPrdv remember stuff I posted years ago like old school and throw it back at me and I love that about these guys
peace
back to the lyrics in context...' there's more to a picture than meets the eye, hey hey my my.'. sing with me H
- Jul 25, 2012
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Boeing said:
No, it is not on. Period. Clear violations of the rules are clear violations of the rules. Nor is everyone involved is as happy as you would like the other readers to think. Nor is there any reason to assume that because you've gotten away with it before that it should continue.
- Jul 10, 2010
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King Boonen said:
Idk - admittedly, we never see rod brakes anymore, but there is a reason that rim brakes are dominant and will likely stay in the market well past the lifetime of anyone posting here. Simply this, they are relatively efficient, and they are cheaper to manufacture and maintain.
While it is an interesting point about grinding away rim surface, that argument is, for the most part, overrated. For users of steel or alloy rims, the relative lifetime of the rim is not shortened sufficiently by this action to make the added expense of discs worth the cost. Nor is the life expectancy of the wheel shortened much beyond what the useful life of the bicycle or wheel is without said wear.
Unless the rider is allowing sand or grit to inhabit the space between the brakes and the rim - which for an "average" rider would account as abuse. The cycling disciplines, and their disciples, that regularly bathe in mud and sand are few in comparison to the market overall.
Now - we do have some mfr reps out there - if any of them want to correct me on this - or if somebody has access to industry stats that are counter to this - I'll be happy to listen.
- Jun 30, 2012
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- Mar 10, 2009
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When I consider the years it took me to go from rim brakes to disk brakes on my MTB I figure it will be a decade or more before I own a disk brake road bike if ever. Sure if I bought a CX bike I'd go straight to disk or if I was looking for a complete road bike I might wait another year for a fully developed road group with hydraulic disk brakes. In the meantime I have 1 set of high end wheels that need new rims. That alone will cost $400 but I do the build. A couple of years from now I have 2 sets of wheels that will need new rims and the could be 7 to 800 for those pairs. That is a lot of disk brake rotors. It is far cheaper to continue with the bikes and wheels I have but eventually I think all bikes will just come with disks. Most of the silly crap in this thread is about the change and a lot less about whether disk brakes are good brakes.
Until road racing allows disk brakes it will be a much slower transition but I can hardly believe that the transition won't come.
Until road racing allows disk brakes it will be a much slower transition but I can hardly believe that the transition won't come.
- Jul 25, 2012
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@Hiero2
Rim brakes will remain dominant only as long as people are unwilling to buy a new frame/bike with disc breaks.
Cable disc breaks in mountain biking are standard on bike costing as little as £350. Yes, they may not be brilliant at that price range but then neither are rim brakes in that range. They do have increased stopping power compared to comparable rim brakes and are actually easier to maintain (it takes me less than a minute to change a set of pads on disc breaks, it's quicker than changing a tube trail-side). Hydraulics for as little as £450.
The grinding of a rim might seem overrated but in reality it's completely sensible, why run the risk? Also, removing the need for a breaking surface may allow developers a chance to improve rim design.
Disc brakes really aren't that much more expensive and hydraulic ones require little to no maintenance, I've known people who run the same brakes for years without needing to do anything other than switch the pads when they are worn.
Overheating always gets brought up but it's just not going to be an issue. Yes, the discs are smaller than the rims but they also aren't as well insulated and the dissipate heat much better. They also don't dissipate heat into the inner tube (if you are using them). Over-heating of the oil is unlikely and bent rotors due to heat is extremely difficult to believe. One mountain biker I know is also a power lifter so really does weigh about 300lbs, he's never bent a disc through breaking and he rides downhill as well as trails.
I accept that there no-doubt needs to be some work on the system at the break lever end to make servicing easy, but to be honest, bleeding my disc break is much much easier than replacing a cable on rims ever was.
Discs are better in every single way and the price difference is already small (for mountain bikes, it will take a while for road bikes).
Now if the UCI could stop it's silliness and in-fighting they could get on with approving them for road use.
Rim brakes will remain dominant only as long as people are unwilling to buy a new frame/bike with disc breaks.
Cable disc breaks in mountain biking are standard on bike costing as little as £350. Yes, they may not be brilliant at that price range but then neither are rim brakes in that range. They do have increased stopping power compared to comparable rim brakes and are actually easier to maintain (it takes me less than a minute to change a set of pads on disc breaks, it's quicker than changing a tube trail-side). Hydraulics for as little as £450.
The grinding of a rim might seem overrated but in reality it's completely sensible, why run the risk? Also, removing the need for a breaking surface may allow developers a chance to improve rim design.
Disc brakes really aren't that much more expensive and hydraulic ones require little to no maintenance, I've known people who run the same brakes for years without needing to do anything other than switch the pads when they are worn.
Overheating always gets brought up but it's just not going to be an issue. Yes, the discs are smaller than the rims but they also aren't as well insulated and the dissipate heat much better. They also don't dissipate heat into the inner tube (if you are using them). Over-heating of the oil is unlikely and bent rotors due to heat is extremely difficult to believe. One mountain biker I know is also a power lifter so really does weigh about 300lbs, he's never bent a disc through breaking and he rides downhill as well as trails.
I accept that there no-doubt needs to be some work on the system at the break lever end to make servicing easy, but to be honest, bleeding my disc break is much much easier than replacing a cable on rims ever was.
Discs are better in every single way and the price difference is already small (for mountain bikes, it will take a while for road bikes).
Now if the UCI could stop it's silliness and in-fighting they could get on with approving them for road use.
- Jul 25, 2012
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winkybiker said:
Yes, I should pay attention more to what I'm typing. Admittedly I posted that from my phone so it may have been auto-corrects fault, but I'll not use it as an excuse...
- Jul 25, 2012
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Master50 said:
We can get the conversation back to that then. I really can't see any downside of disc brakes, they are much better than rim brakes in every way.
- May 23, 2009
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They certainly are and I feel that the more they become available, the sooner we can get some kind of true hub standard. Imagine, no more worrying about 130mm hubs, 135mm hubs, non disk, centre lock disk, 6 bolt disk blah blah blah.King Boonen said:
Being able to transfer wheels between a road bike, CX bike and 29'er with nothing but a tyre change would be a pretty handy feature...
- Jul 10, 2010
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Master50 said:
King Boonen said:
42x16ss said:
I completely agree that much of the conversation is about "The Change". I also COMPLETELY agree that disc brakes will be mechanically superior in performance. But, just as you STILL see drum brakes on autos, you will continue, IMO, to see rim brakes on bicycles. The reason is financial - they are and will be cheaper. Disk brakes will become more competitive - and you are right, have already.
BUT, as Masters points out - he already has a stable of bikes. A heck of a lot of us do. And why get rid of a working stable because you want a new horseshoe? Most folks don't and won't want the hassle involved. So, again, you're RIGHT! It's just because a lot of folk don't want to go out and buy a new bike with discs!
And remember, the thread topic is twofold, and it is apparent in tlhe thread title.
1. Disc brakes are mechanically superior.
2. Rim brakes are on the way out.
And, it is only on the 2nd point that I find any reason to add a comment.
- Jul 23, 2009
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42x16ss said:
It hasn't happened in MTB discs, why do you think adding the much smaller road segment will induce some sort of wheel/hub 'standards?
Tab, ISO mounts, centerlock, 6 bolt, 135, various thru bolt hub options, blah, blah...
Thrubolt on a 900 gram road frame, brilliant. It'll happen.
- Apr 16, 2009
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http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish...x/news_and_info/news/voluntary_recall_by.html
Sounds like the technology isn't quite ready.
Sounds like the technology isn't quite ready.
- Jul 10, 2010
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42x16ss said:
And it is a nice pipedream, too! I sure wish we could see it. But I started riding (serious riding, not as a child) on 5-speed freewheels. Do you know how many dropout width changes there have been since then? Chain width changes?
It is a nuisance to me. For sure.
But from the mfr pov? Sometimes standards pay off for the mfrs, sometimes they don't. In this case, I would venture to say that differentiation is more profitable than standardization.
- Jun 30, 2012
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- Jun 30, 2012
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BroDeal said:
Except how often do you slow down from 60-0 on a typical road descent?
The rotors can take the heat just fine, I've seen my discs glowing red on night rides, without loss of brake function. Plus you're assuming the rims are metal rather than carbon - these may have higher mass, but are very poor conductors resulting in most of the thermal load remaining at the brake track, negating the argument of higher mass.
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