Ryder Hesjedal Discussion Thread

[Neworld]

Vande Velde is gone and I believe Garmin know that. Considering that he hasnt shown much in the tour since 09 where he came 12 minutes down in 8th ...

You could be right, but refresh my memory.

Didn't VDV break bones in both the last 2 Giros'... resulting in poor lead ups to the TdFs in 2010 and 2011. I could be wrong.

VDV has a big engine and although he is getting older he never went into the red zone on many of this years GIRO stages and who knows how hard he really went on those ITTs. Just saying, he may be using it as a slow build up.

Or, you're totally spot on and he's toast face.

 

[Neworld]

I do enjoy this cartoon!

From the Province.

For those non hockey fans, that is the Stanley Cup (National Hockey League).



link: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Sports+cartoons+from+Krieger/2926089/story.html?id=2926089

Love that cartoon dude! Thanx

Have you ever held that dish, it's like 3 bikes?

 

[ansimi]

You could be right, but refresh my memory.

Didn't VDV break bones in both the last 2 Giros'... resulting in poor lead ups to the TdFs in 2010 and 2011. I could be wrong.

VDV has a big engine and although he is getting older he never went into the red zone on many of this years GIRO stages and who knows how hard he really went on those ITTs. Just saying, he may be using it as a slow build up.

Or, you're totally spot on and he's toast face.

VDV broke bones in the 2009 and 2010 Giros and vowed never to ride it again but did so this year for his friend Ryder. He also broke bones in the 2010 Tour which opened the door for Ryder's success that year. He is very breakable 2011 Tour, VDV and Ryder were both hurt in crashes and rode for Danielson.

 

[Neworld]

VDV broke bones in the 2009 and 2010 Giros and vowed never to ride it again but did so this year for his friend Ryder. He also broke bones in the 2010 Tour which opened the door for Ryder's success that year. He is very breakable 2011 Tour, VDV and Ryder were both hurt in crashes and rode for Danielson.

Thank you, that sounds more like it, unfortunately for VDV. Maybe those 3 crashes are the end of his personal triology of bad events? Hope he is able to battle without crashing, then we'll see if he is aging and falling aside or able to rekindle some panache while healthy for a change.

 

[maxmartin]

Vande Velde wants to do the Giro himself, he said he always have super form in the second GT, he is using Giro to train and warm up to form.
But it is possible since Ryder is in the driver position later in the Giro, Vande Velde might did a little more than he planed to do. But i think he and Danielson will be GC riders for Garmin in the tour. The original plan is Ryder for Giro or Vuelta, since he won the Giro, Jonathan will let Ryder himself to decide weather to ride or not, even Ryder go to Tour, he will work for Vande Velde and Danielson and go for stage hunting. Of course if anything happen to those two, he might have a chance to step up.

It is possible that Vande Velde is past his best, but I don't think it's clear that he is. As for Martin, I think he's the most talented rider on the Garmin team (or at least I did a week ago), but I also think they'd have to be nuts to expect a GC ride from him on this Tour parcours.

The chances are that Hesjedal will be cooked. Martin is pretty much the worst possible fit for the parcours. Talansky is one for the future, but he isn't at the necessary level yet. That really only leaves Vande Velde and Danielson.

The tiny grey lining on the massive silver cloud of their Giro win is that it does make things hard for them in the Tour. It's entirely possible that both Vande Velde and Hesjedal could be cooked, along with Stetina. They really don't have too many other guys who are capable of being with the last 25 on the climbs.

 

[webvan]

Like I said, Hesjedal's ambitions for the TDF are UP -> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hesjedal-heads-to-tour-de-france-with-another-win-on-his-mind - but says he'll help if asked...since he'll likely quickly going to be above VDV and TD, that's going to be theoretical, nice of him to say it though.

 

[iZnoGouD]

i think he can win it

 

[hrotha]

Jesus Christ, are people seriously talking about Hesjedal doing a Giro-Tour double?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Recent attempts at Giro-Tour doubles:

2011: Contador 1st Giro, 5th Tour
2010: Basso 1st Giro, 31st Tour
2009: Menchov 1st Giro, 50th Tour

There were people who were saying that Evans could have won the 2010 Tour if he hadn't been injured, ignoring that he'd been going all out for the Ardennes and the Giro. Suggesting Ryder Hesjedal, of all people, can do a Giro-Tour double is far more delusional than that.

 

[Caruut]

If both Schlecks, Menchov, Evans, Wiggins, Nibali, Sanchez, Van den Brouck and Gesink all crash out then I'd say Hesjedal has an outside chance of beating Thomas Voeckler for the overall.

 

[vcampbell]

Jesus Christ, are people seriously talking about Hesjedal doing a Giro-Tour double?

Actually I think normally he could win, but this Tour will be everything, but not normal. His problem will be the TT, he will lose there ~4 minutes to Wiggins (at least), what he can't take back in the moutains. A top10 is possible I think, maybe a top5 (with much-much luck).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I have had a tendency to underrate Hesjedal, but he could normally win the Tour?

May I remind people that Alberto Contador won last year's Giro by 6 minutes, with time to showboat and take it easy towards the end to conserve energy for the Tour, and could still only manage 5th in a Tour where a large number of contenders crashed out or underperformed due to injury. Are we seriously suggesting that Hesjedal, who has just won the Giro by 20 seconds from Joaquím freaking Rodríguez, could match that?

I guess the case can be made that the 2012 Giro was far less difficult (and raced far less aggressively) than the 2011 edition. But to counter that, I argue the case that Alberto Contador is better than Ryder Hesjedal.

 

[Parrulo]

ya hesjedal achieving something even contador failled to achieve. . . . sounds realistic.

would be a gigantic step for clean cycling tho ofc

 

[The Hitch]

the point to remember is that this giro was easier than last years.

Menchov came 5th in the Giro and 4th at the Tour which shows it might not be entirely out of this world to perform at the same level in both.

Hejsdal has the Giro. At the Tour there is no Contador. There is arguably no top top favorite as there often is at the Tour. Everyone has some weakness. Wiggins unproven. Evans getting old. Andy sucks at tt. Menchov inconsistent. Samu injured. Gesink recovering from injury. Nibali, not totaly proven.

I can see Hejsdal beating some of those guys.

Obviously its highly unlikely hell podium let alone win, but, i dont think its impossible either.

 

[TheEnoculator]

Actually I think normally he could win, but this Tour will be everything, but not normal. His problem will be the TT, he will lose there ~4 minutes to Wiggins (at least), what he can't take back in the moutains. A top10 is possible I think, maybe a top5 (with much-much luck).

Are you suggesting Ryder Hesjedal could be as good as Contador? Contador was 1st in Giro last year then 5th in Tour. NO ONE in the 21st century has ever achieved two top 5's in back-to-back GTs except Contador. Are you seriously suggesting Ryder could match that?

I love Ryder, but let's not get carried away here.

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

Are you suggesting Ryder Hesjedal could be as good as Contador? Contador was 1st in Giro last year then 5th in Tour. NO ONE in the 21st century has ever achieved two top 5's in back-to-back GTs except Contador. Are you seriously suggesting Ryder could match that?

I love Ryder, but let's not get carried away here.

Um... Menchov 2008. As Hitch just posted 5th in the Giro and 4th in the Tour. However, it did look like Menchov was not going full gas in the Giro that year, and that was the big difference between Menchov 2008 and Menchov 2009, where he really struggled in the Tour.

 

[TheEnoculator]

Um... Menchov 2008. As Hitch just posted 5th in the Giro and 4th in the Tour. However, it did look like Menchov was not going full gas in the Giro that year, and that was the big difference between Menchov 2008 and Menchov 2009, where he really struggled in the Tour.

Yeah, I deleted my reply after realizing I made a mistake. I guess you captured my reply before I deleted it.

 

[goggalor]

Hesjedal is not good enough to contend even without the Giro in his legs. His Giro win was great, but the Giro is not the Tour.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah, I deleted my reply after realizing I made a mistake. I guess you captured my reply before I deleted it.

There's also Sastre (4th, 2007 Tour & 2nd, 2007 Vuelta), Evans (2nd, 2007 Tour & 4th, 2007 Vuelta) and Sastre again (1st, 2008 Tour & 3rd, 2008 Vuelta).

The Tour-Vuelta double is usually an easier one to do for GC than Giro-Tour given the higher average speed at the Tour and the lesser GC pickings at the Vuelta.

 

[vcampbell]

I have had a tendency to underrate Hesjedal, but he could normally win the Tour?

I used the wrong words. I meant that normally he has got a chance. I don't say he could beat Contador or anyone from the main favorites, but he could with a bit of luck, like in may. After the Giro we can't say, that he has got no chance. He was strong almost everywhere. Ok, not versus Contador, or Andy, or Evans, but he still won the Giro.

 

[Master50]

Hesjedal is not good enough to contend even without the Giro in his legs. His Giro win was great, but the Giro is not the Tour.

You are correct, the Giro is harder! The Giro was not easier, the riders were cleaner. Saying the giro was easier is more related to an unexpected winner. Ryder is a hugely consistent rider and a very good climber. His interview on Canadian Cyclist touches on his tour plans and he is freeing good. He proved he is capable of a top 10 and this year he is fitter and has the confidence of a GT victory. Writing him off could be a fatal mistake for his competitors as well as his unbelievers.

 

[hrotha]

You are correct, the Giro is harder! The Giro was not easier, the riders were cleaner. Saying the giro was easier is more related to an unexpected winner. Ryder is a hugely consistent rider and a very good climber. His interview on Canadian Cyclist touches on his tour plans and he is freeing good. He proved he is capable of a top 10 and this year he is fitter and has the confidence of a GT victory. Writing him off could be a fatal mistake for his competitors as well as his unbelievers.

What the hell am I reading.

 

[Master50]

I used the wrong words. I meant that normally he has got a chance. I don't say he could beat Contador or anyone from the main favorites, but he could with a bit of luck, like in may. After the Giro we can't say, that he has got no chance. He was strong almost everywhere. Ok, not versus Contador, or Andy, or Evans, but he still won the Giro.

Contador is banned and andy is not riding so well and Cadel is a mtb rider made good. Cadel has been chasing Le tour but Ryder was never called upon until 2010 where he did OK. He is fitter and stronger now than he was in 10. Under estimation did not hurt him in Italy. Garmin's first race with a set leader turned out pretty well and believing in yourself as a possible winner changes how far you go before you back off. Ryder is a legitimate contender and right now only Cadel is looking prepared.

 

[joe1265]

I hope this means JV will leave Tyler at home and put Danielson as the 2nd tier GC rider on the team.

With VDV, Stetina, Danielson and Martin for support, Ryder is certainly top 5 with a bullet!

 

[Master50]

What the hell am I reading.

You are confusing the profile of the event as the difficulty determinator. I am just quoting a few riders who have raced both. The Tour is the biggest but only the riders can make it harder and the giro was raced hard.