Ryder's blood

[Mr.38%]

Smokers have > 50% easily.

It's just percentage, the absolute Hb mass is much more interesting.

 

[workingclasshero]

I was 13.3 last autumn and 13.4 this spring. The note that came with the results from the doc said the normal range was 13.4-17.

Now as an endurance athlete I would have liked to bump it up.

There is no other way than taking iron supplements, is there?

My iron result (s-ferritin) was 64, normal range 20-300. So it is normal but surely as an endurance athlete I'd like to bump that closer towards the 300?

I'm curious about this. All other things being equal would an athlete with a natural HCT of 48 have an advantage over an athlete with an HCT of 40 in an endurance event sans blood doping?

 

[Rip:30]

Fact: When Ryder was on the Gary Fisher Subaru mtb bike team in the early 2000s he sometimes traveled with a portable centrifuge. He and world champ Roland Green were good friends, and likely charging. Other's from the Canadian mtb program of that era are Seamus McGrath (high hematocrit mandatory cool off), and Chris Sheapeard (EPO+ later in the 2000s).

 

[sigreg]

These numbers for all pros seem pretty low to me my blood test results say HCT should be between 40-55% and Heamoglobin between 13 - 18 is there something that I am missing here as to why they are the lower end of the scale? Even Wiki says normal HCT is 45%.

Should I be happy I am 49% and 16.7? (although this is only from 1 test from when I was sick)

49% HCT and Hb of 16.7 shows that when you had your blood test you were dehydrated (hence having your blood test when sick)
Normal values tend to be lower, but I suppose it depends on what page has been googled or what medical book has been referenced.

 

[D-Queued]

Fact: When Ryder was on the Gary Fisher Subaru mtb bike team in the early 2000s he sometimes traveled with a portable centrifuge. He and world champ Roland Green were good friends, and likely charging. Other's from the Canadian mtb program of that era are Seamus McGrath (high hematocrit mandatory cool off), and Chris Sheppard (EPO+ later in the 2000s).

Spelling correction.

Dave.

 

[Rip:30]

49% HCT and Hb of 16.7 shows that when you had your blood test you were dehydrated (hence having your blood test when sick)
Normal values tend to be lower, but I suppose it depends on what page has been googled or what medical book has been referenced.

Not necessarily. I live at 1600 m and train up to 4000 m and my htc is 50 when fully hydrated.

 

[sigreg]

Not necessarily. I live at 1600 m and train up to 4000 m and my htc is 50 when fully hydrated.

Sorry, my bad (however the post said the bloods were taken when sick)
I was assuming that when discussing "normal levels of Hb and HCT" then they would based on bloods being taken at sea level.
Your HCT would be higher due to thinner 02 but you knew that already. Your arterial 02 would also possibly be lower than, say for example mine, (due to me being at sea level)
It's fairly safe to say that there are so many variables.

 

[sniper]

not that we didn't already know, but still interesting:

Earlier today WADA director general Mr Howman specifically talked about athletes travelling to specific and remote locations in the world where testing was hard to carry out. He talked about athletes staying on the top of mountains for altitude training and being in locations where they could see testers coming due to small airports and single roads up to locations.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exclusive-q-and-a-with-wada-president-john-fahey
I tried to look but couldn't find: does anybody know (a) why and (b) since when Hesjedal is residing on Hawaii?

 

[northstar]

I tried to look but couldn't find: does anybody know (a) why and (b) since when Hesjedal is residing on Hawaii?

why? great training conditions as compared to his hometown of Victoria, B.C.
when? first trip in 2005

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/10/news/ryder-hesjedal-winds-down-in-hawaii-after-%E2%80%98best-season-ever%E2%80%99_148024?news

 

[sniper]

why? great training conditions as compared to his hometown of Victoria, B.C.
when? first trip in 2005

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/10/news/ryder-hesjedal-winds-down-in-hawaii-after-%E2%80%98best-season-ever%E2%80%99_148024?news

thanks!
indeed, ideal training conditions.

 

[SundayRider]

Has there ever been studies on clean subjects and the effects of hard endurance exercise on blood values?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Has there ever been studies on clean subjects and the effects of hard endurance exercise on blood values?

Do you mean pre / post exercise within the same day, or just in general?

Any test looking at the effects of EPO on training, blood parameters and physiological improvements include "clean" subjects as controls. So indirectly, yes.

 

[SundayRider]

Do you mean pre / post exercise within the same day, or just in general?

Any test looking at the effects of EPO on training, blood parameters and physiological improvements include "clean" subjects as controls. So indirectly, yes.

I meant over a sort of 2-3 week period, post exercise to sort of replicate a grand tour - obviously its impossible to replicate a GT in a study, but you get what I mean.

 

[Ferminal]

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/18773375/reload=0;jsessionid=iDVf21epAcnqe5kZWxmt.28

During the Tour de France, the [Hb] decreased by 11.5 %, with individual decreases ranging from 7.0 to 20.6 %

 

[Cloxxki]

Fact: When Ryder was on the Gary Fisher Subaru mtb bike team in the early 2000s he sometimes traveled with a portable centrifuge. He and world champ Roland Green were good friends, and likely charging. Other's from the Canadian mtb program of that era are Seamus McGrath (high hematocrit mandatory cool off), and Chris Sheapeard (EPO+ later in the 2000s).

Not good to hear. I was a fan. He's built much like I am, and at the Lugano (2003?) world championships he was clearly climbing better than Meirhaeghe, just losing time crashing on basically every descend, having too tiny wheels for a tall rider on a course like that. The long Fischer sure was a slight improvement over other brands, but still, he looked so awkward over any sort of bump. And I know how it with with such a high seat position.
Explains why it took so much time to make it on the road, there everybody was on better programs already.

So he's lying to his boss, or is the boss just full of crab?

 

[sniper]

Not good to hear. I was a fan. He's built much like I am, and at the Lugano (2003?) world championships he was clearly climbing better than Meirhaeghe, just losing time crashing on basically every descend, having too tiny wheels for a tall rider on a course like that. The long Fischer sure was a slight improvement over other brands, but still, he looked so awkward over any sort of bump. And I know how it with with such a high seat position.
Explains why it took so much time to make it on the road, there everybody was on better programs already.

So he's lying to his boss, or is the boss just full of crab?

I said this in some JV thread some weeks ago:

...
At the 2004 Olympics, I assume just after leaving Rabo for USPS, Ryder was leading the field and on his way to a gold medal (source wikipedia). He missed out on the gold medal due to a flat tire close to the finish (don't know exactly how close). We know those games weren't all that clean, with Bart Brentjens coming in 3rd, José Antonio Hermida in 2nd.

there is no doubt in my mind he was doping in those years.
JV may or may not know. This was his predictable answer:

I've said, according to the data that is available to me (bio passport, starting in 2008) Ryder has always ridden clean on my team. I also believe this to be true. All of my knowledge of the situation would say he's ridden clean (to avoid the little word games you guys like to play)

Apparently Ryder has seen Jesus after coming to Garmin. Riding clean clearly gave him wings in 2012

 

[Ferminal]

Meh, I think Hesjedal is a bit like Rodriguez. Always rode for dodgy teams but was never a true leader so not implicated by default as would be the case for say a Savoldelli or Pereiro. For that and other reasons neither hit their straps until their 30s coinciding with a clean era in cycling so they deserve as much benefit of the doubt as a Schleck or Cobo.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I've said, according to the data that is available to me (bio passport, starting in 2008) Ryder has always ridden clean on my team. I also believe this to be true. All of my knowledge of the situation would say he's ridden clean (to avoid the little word games you guys like to play)

Which would imply in JV 'read between the lines speak' that he knows that Ryder was dirty earlier in his career.

JV could have come out very clearly and said 'I've spoken to Ryder about his previous teams and asked him whether he was involved in doping. He has said he wasn't.'

The fact that JV can't give a straight answer is revealing.

'All of my knowledge, I believe, according to the available data'

Might as well say 'I walked backwards in a circle three times and looked in the tealeaves and they told me Ryder is clean'

 

[Mr.38%]

On the other hand I'm glad he stands by his riders which separates him from other team managers/DSes.

Honestly I prefer a truely clean Hesjedal in present and future over exposure of a dirty past. I'm just not into revenge, except for those who proclaim cleanliness while being as dirty as hell (e.g. brothers S., Luigi et al).

 

[Cloxxki]

On the other hand I'm glad he stands by his riders which separates him from other team managers/DSes.

Honestly I prefer a truely clean Hesjedal in present and future over exposure of a dirty past. I'm just not into revenge, except for those who proclaim cleanliness while being as dirty as hell (e.g. brothers S., Luigi et al).

What is the likelihood of Ryder, who may well have doped to his amazing almost-wins, to become a victor of clean cycling under god of the clean, JV?

Indeed, JV is highly intelligent. His words regarding RH need to be read very carefull for what they give and don't give.

 

[Mr.38%]

What is the likelihood of Ryder, who may well have doped to his amazing almost-wins, to become a victor of clean cycling under god of the clean, JV?

Indeed, JV is highly intelligent. His words regarding RH need to be read very carefull for what they give and don't give.

I'm not able to answer your rhetorics. Then again, why didn't Hesjedal take the chance to talk about the past (until 2006...!), get his 6 months and move on to be a good guy?

Would JV accept a high profile ri(y)der putting his team into danger? Would the other riders? Dunno about the team internals, that's why I'm asking.

 

[goggalor]

Hm, I didn't know a Ryder was this dodgy. I knew he'd ridden for some iffy teams but I had no idea about the mountain bike stuff. I didn't really want to do any digging though.

If that **** is true, there's no way he won the Giro clean.

 

[D-Queued]

...

there is no doubt in my mind he was doping in those years.

...

No doubt whatsoever.

...

JV may or may not know.

...

JV knows the history of his riders. If he didn't know, it is unrealistic to imagine that he would not have been informed.

He knows.

...

The fact that JV can't give a straight answer is revealing.

...

No, it isn't revealing.

JV has no obligation to anyone to publicly discuss Ryder's doping on previous teams - he could not have been a witness himself.

Until either Ryder admits this or information leaks out from those times, JV should not say anything.

That doesn't mean I like this situation, but it is the only approach that he can take.

What he should do, and what he appears to have done, is to make sure that Ryder knows he knows and closely monitor him to make sure that Ryder is toeing the line.

Dave.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

An evasive answer, couched in caveats, is revealing, in the sense that it implicitly confirms RH's dirty past without explicitly saying so. If you can't or won't give a direct answer there is normally a reason for that.

 

[Mr.38%]

An evasive answer, couched in caveats, is revealing, in the sense that it implicitly confirms RH's dirty past without explicitly saying so. If you can't or won't give a direct answer there is normally a reason for that.

Reason: Hesjedal being an active rider, JV didn't get a deal with WADA or doesn't expect UCI to play along?