Scarponi

[webvan]

Data for Ryder comes from captainbag - JV emailed them to him direct.
Diurnal variation comes from my research and the free text studies I can find - which are thin on the ground.

I tweeted CaptainBag - see what he says. I am putting together a little tutorial on blood, then the ABP, then retro test the released values. That's why it's taking time - looking for solid studies to back up the expected behaviour of blood markers.

WTH is CaptainBag ? Why would JV share confidential information with that guy and why would that guy share it with you? Are you sure this is valid data? If it is send it to Ashenden!

 

[The Hitch]

Dont forget Vino's links in all this as well.

And he is going into a management role in Astana now. We are the right road to clean cycling alright.

Yeah, and his new leader - Nibali, is supposed to be this new young clean rider from the post doping era.

 

[hrotha]

WTH is CaptainBag ? Why would JV share confidential information with that guy and why would that guy share it with you? Are you sure this is valid data? If it is send it to Ashenden!

JV sent the data to Captain himself. At least Hesjedal's. JV confirmed that much in this very forum.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

WTH is CaptainBag ? Why would JV share confidential information with that guy and why would that guy share it with you? Are you sure this is valid data? If it is send it to Ashenden!

CaptainBag is on tumblr, and published the values online. I asked JV a bunch of questions in the "JV talks, sort of" thread - about why CaptainBag and why so long after the race etc.

My theory is it was a managed release, by someone who would be very fair in their analysis. When I asked CaptainBag about the final day he said it could indicate EPO doping if you were very biased. I didn't know about diurnal variations then, will be interesting to see what he says to that.

Here's the values:

http://captaintbag.tumblr.com/post/31367299894/expert-analysis-ryder-hesjedal-2012-giro-blood

Keep in mind - the dodginess of Millar's 2008 values got the all-clear from Ashenden, even though at the most basic level they break the simplest rules of "normal" physiological response. He kept saying, "could be indicative of doping", but XYZ or whatever - not dissimilar to CaptainBag.

The other repeating pattern I am seeing is Joe Lindsey loves JV+Garmin. Always talks him up. Very LA-Liggett like.

Omerta thingo says I should just apply scientific analysis to published values, but I honestly feel there is as much value in looking at what people are saying or not saying in the course of dialog between pro team/rider/public.

Like this:

Because of the large fluctuations in the ACE data compared to similar UCI tests, Ashenden was cautious about reading too much into the results, one way or another. Some of Millar and Vande Velde's reticulocyte variations seemed abnormal to him but he was careful to add that he was not accusing either rider of doping.

A subsequent release of data on the entire nine-rider Tour de France team that was provided to Bicycling and which Vaughters may make public sometime after the time trial put Ashenden a little more at ease.

While offering the proviso that he'd seen normal profiles from riders later shown to be using EPO, after reviewing the second set of data on all nine riders, Ashenden told me, "My honest appraisal would be to say that there is nothing striking in the data as shown that indicates blood manipulation."

Ashenden then made an offer to pass the results through what he calls a third-generation model, which looks at fluctuations in hemoglobin and OFF-score rather than just population thresholds, and analyze the results. Vaughters has, in principle, agreed to release the raw data Ashenden needs. If both parties agree, that review will be published here as a followup.

Pretty sure that block of text is full of hearsay.

Now, there may have beena follow up, but it's not linked to this article. And maybe there's something special for the off-score (I've grabbed Ashenden's study discussing the 3rd gen model but not read it yet) so I'll have a look but personally, I think the off-score is a bunch of useless BS.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

CaptainBag is on tumblr, and published the values online. I asked JV a bunch of questions in the "JV talks, sort of" thread - about why CaptainBag and why so long after the race etc.

My theory is it was a managed release, by someone who would be very fair in their analysis. When I asked CaptainBag about the final day he said it could indicate EPO doping if you were very biased. I didn't know about diurnal variations then, will be interesting to see what he says to that.

Here's the values:

http://captaintbag.tumblr.com/post/31367299894/expert-analysis-ryder-hesjedal-2012-giro-blood

Keep in mind - the dodginess of Millar's 2008 values got the all-clear from Ashenden, even though at the most basic level they break the simplest rules of "normal" physiological response. He kept saying, "could be indicative of doping", but XYZ or whatever - not dissimilar to CaptainBag.

The other repeating pattern I am seeing is Joe Lindsey loves JV+Garmin. Always talks him up. Very LA-Liggett like.

Omerta thingo says I should just apply scientific analysis to published values, but I honestly feel there is as much value in looking at what people are saying or not saying in the course of dialog between pro team/rider/public.

Like this:



Pretty sure that block of text is full of hearsay.

Now, there may have beena follow up, but it's not linked to this article. And maybe there's something special for the off-score (I've grabbed Ashenden's study discussing the 3rd gen model but not read it yet) so I'll have a look but personally, I think the off-score is a bunch of useless BS.

yeah I'm very sure vaughters shares information like that years afterwards with some obscure online fake name guy, called captainbag. : I call it bull**** a lot

 

[hrotha]

As I said, JV himself confirmed he sent Hesjedal's data to the Captain.

Anyway, this thread is about Scarponi.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

yeah I'm very sure vaughters shares information like that years afterwards with some obscure online fake name guy, called captainbag. : I call it bull**** a lot

giggle. 2008 data in bicycling magazine online. analysed today by CB.
2012 data sent direct to CB a month ago.

u dunno wherefore thou speakest.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

so what's the concensus? * = epo?

 

[airstream]

Oh, didn´t see your post... Yes, that sounds reasonable, makes it much easier to fine-tune the applications.

Or probably even old good bb's are still in the mix. Wada wasted many millions and years to develop a test detecting EPO, but Ferarri found a solution in 5 minutes. He could invent something for transfusions too.

IMO, the following Ferarri's affair is a real bomb and italian authorities did all their best so that minimum of information leaked into the press in order to not to shock publicity too much. Scarponi and Vino are crackers: from Ufe to Ferarri. Great move. Such an effort, such money, such a visibility of anti-doping fight and... As a result, 0 changes

 

[webvan]

I see but :

1. That last paragraph refers to 2008, it appears no follow-up was published?

2. That CaptainBag is quite the character isn't he...someone should tell him that blaxploitation movies were bing 40 years ago.

3. Where is the Hematocrit level, that's the first thing you need to look at.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I see but :

1. That last paragraph refers to 2008, it appears no follow-up was published?

2. That CaptainBag is quite the character isn't he...someone should tell him that blaxploitation movies were bing 40 years ago.

3. Where is the Hematocrit level, that's the first thing you need to look at.

abp focuses on hgb and retics now.

abp is broken, imo. or at least used in a broken fashion.

 

[hrotha]

So Scarponi admits to working with Ferrari ("just for one test") and to lying when the story broke in 2011. I don't like his credibility.

 

[Love the Scenery]

Oh, this gets better and better

Last year he denied ever working with Dr. Ferrari to Cyclingnews. Now he has changed his version, claiming he only underwent two tests with the disgraced Italian sports doctor

Liar, liar, pants on fire

And even better ...

... not true and to be considered false and damaging to my image and that of the team. As a result, the authors will have responsibility for them and will be called to do so by my lawyers.

(http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/scarponi-hits-back-at-dr-ferrari-accusations)

Yes, please, Scarponi. Do an Armstrong. Dope, lie, and then sue people for telling the truth. It would be especially good for you to lie under oath. That's a great idea!

I really hope Scarponi sues the Gazzetta. That would be so Lance.

 

[webvan]

So Scarponi didn't know Ferrari was banned for life ? It's amazing how uninformed all these people are isn't it! He also doesn't seem to understand that whether he consulted Ferrari for "tests" (had he broken his power meter?) or for micro-dosing or BB advice it doesn't matter at the end of the day, he gets suspended...and that would be his second suspension -> Banned for life or 8 years at best.

And good riddance, another talentless GT rider who came out of nowhere to beat more talented riders like Cunego.

 

[airstream]

OMG... In short, riders are not afraid of life time ban whatsoever. Contador and Valverde must be banned even without positive tests for the sake of sport.

 

[trompe le monde]

Lampre have been searching for a GC rider for how long now? Didn't think Scarponi would do much once he transferred from D-A.

 

[roundabout]

Oh, Scimone is his agent. Didn't make that connection before.

In the words of Christoph Waltz "That's an über-bingo."

 

[del1962]

Scarponi admits to doping with Ferrari

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/scarponi-admits-tests-with-dr-ferrari-to-doping-investigators

EDIT : From what I read of the statement is he admitting to doping or just wroking with Ferrari, is he trying to weasel his way out of dope allegations and just say he contacted ferrari or have I read it wrong?

 

[airstream]

A 12 year ban is on the horizon

 

[Tom375]

He's hoping for a 6 month ban funny that..

 

[del1962]

A 12 year ban is on the horizon

He is hoping for a winter ban!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Scar-phony is a joke. He deserves a major ban.

 

[hrotha]

Scarponi admits to doping with Ferrari

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/scarponi-admits-tests-with-dr-ferrari-to-doping-investigators

EDIT : From what I read of the statement is he admitting to doping or just wroking with Ferrari, is he trying to weasel his way out of dope allegations and just say he contacted ferrari or have I read it wrong?

He's only admitting to having done two innocent tests with Ferrari. No doping involved, of course

 

[Tom375]

He's only admitting to having done two innocent tests with Ferrari. No doping involved, of course

Ferrari 'you'd have won it (Giro) if you'd had a bag' - Just one bag? - Is that all it takes these days? Is that what people mean by cleaner peleton? - Just one bag will do it..

 

[del1962]

He's only admitting to having done two innocent tests with Ferrari. No doping involved, of course

You are right, I thought at first it was some thought of confession, but in reality he is admitting to nothing except a couple of tests with a doctor he claims he did not know was banned.