Teams & Riders Sepp Kuss is the next Sepp Kuss thread

[noob]

Well, he will definitely be one of the favorites since there really are no outstanding favorites at all. Hasn't done much at all this year, and he seems to really have found some decent form now, but will obviously need a higher level still to pull it off. Looking at the odds, Carapaz is really juicy I think, but its literally impossible to predict how this race is gonna pan out atm

Yates might show up in tds shape

 

[Mako]

Very solid TT today by GC KUSS!

 

[FroomeWagon]

Is that Kuss beating some Spanish farmers or Roglic injury rumors hitting the markets?

A little of both ... but probably more to do with he appears healthy.

 

[jmdirt]

Congrats Sepp!

 

[CyclistAbi]

So Sepp won a Vuelta prep race but the team still acting a bit wonky:

'Wout won't have to sacrifice himself' - Van Aert given freedom to chase stage wins in Vuelta a España debut

Belgian handed free role at Visma despite Sepp Kuss' GC ambitions

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Rob5091]

GC Kuss not looking so "GC" at San Sebastian but probably took it easy after Burgos.

 

[Valv.Piti]

So Sepp won a Vuelta prep race but the team still acting a bit wonky:

'Wout won't have to sacrifice himself' - Van Aert given freedom to chase stage wins in Vuelta a España debut

Belgian handed free role at Visma despite Sepp Kuss' GC ambitions

www.cyclingnews.com

They have 2 captains, Sepp and Wout. Nothing wonky about that. If Sepp suddenly ends up in red and looks the best, that will obviously change a bit, but its only natural that Wout will have more or less an absolute free role when Seppy hasn't shown much this year and his win last year mostly came down to team tactics (still being the 3rd strongest rider).

 

[CyclistAbi]

They have 2 captains, Sepp and Wout. Nothing wonky about that. If Sepp suddenly ends up in red and looks the best, that will obviously change a bit, but its only natural that Wout will have more or less an absolute free role when Seppy hasn't shown much this year and his win last year mostly came down to team tactics (still being the 3rd strongest rider).

Still, when it comes to Jonas, Wout now has very little freedom and results, usually none, racing with him at a GT. When it comes to Kuss, the team says it up front, Wout can do whatever he likes. Its like Kuss is their last GT winner and at least until he is in contention for the overall, the stance should be GC Kuss will be fully supported. But OK, i get it, the team puts Jonas first and the rest is not as important to them.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Still, when it comes to Jonas, Wout now has very little freedom and results, usually none, racing with him at a GT. When it comes to Kuss, the team says it up front, Wout can do whatever he likes. Its like Kuss is their last GT winner and at least until he is in contention for the overall, the stance should be GC Kuss will be fully supported. But OK, i get it, the team puts Jonas first and the rest is not as important to them.

I agree, it was disgraceful that Movistar gave Alejandro Valverde a free role at the 2012 Vuelta and didn't fully back the GC bid of Juan José Cobo.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Still, when it comes to Jonas, Wout now has very little freedom and results, usually none, racing with him at a GT. When it comes to Kuss, the team says it up front, Wout can do whatever he likes. Its like Kuss is their last GT winner and at least until he is in contention for the overall, the stance should be GC Kuss will be fully supported. But OK, i get it, the team puts Jonas first and the rest is not as important to them.

I don't even know what to answer man. Are we really comparing Tour de France and Jonas Vingegaard to Sepp Kuss and the Vuelta here?

 

[tobydawq]

Still, when it comes to Jonas, Wout now has very little freedom and results, usually none, racing with him at a GT. When it comes to Kuss, the team says it up front, Wout can do whatever he likes. Its like Kuss is their last GT winner and at least until he is in contention for the overall, the stance should be GC Kuss will be fully supported. But OK, i get it, the team puts Jonas first and the rest is not as important to them.

Correct, as it should be.

Remember how Kuss only won because the fans demanded it?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I agree, it was disgraceful that Movistar gave Alejandro Valverde a free role at the 2012 Vuelta and didn't fully back the GC bid of Juan José Cobo.

Comparing Cobo to Kuss and Valverde to van Aert in terms of GC racing. I don't see it. Distinct difference.

I don't even know what to answer man. Are we really comparing Tour de France and Jonas Vingegaard to Sepp Kuss and the Vuelta here?

So what are you saying? A GT GC leader should only be fully supported at the Tour? What was UAE then doing at Giro this year? If Pogi would end up riding Vuelta, going for the GC, he wouldn't be fully supported by his team?

Correct, as it should be.

Remember how Kuss only won because the fans demanded it?

Should it? Only for Kuss or in general?

 

[BeachBum]

GC Kuss is back, baby.

I just want booze swilling, drink-half-the-bottle-on-the-podium Kuss back, baby!

 

[Valv.Piti]

I agree, it was disgraceful that Movistar gave Alejandro Valverde a free role at the 2012 Vuelta and didn't fully back the GC bid of Juan José Cobo.

Hey, when you win a GT, you are supposed to be given full support no matter the context the next year. The rest of the team aren't allowed to do anything else than fetch bottles and look behind every half kilometre to see if you're on the wheel. Cobo would have won had Valverde not been such an egomaniac. And Valverde had apparently fooled the rest of the team as well to ride for him, especially the young Colombian Quintana, who was very easy to trick for the old Spaniard. Poor Cobo Acebo, never given the chance when he should demand the whole team!

 

[CyclistAbi]

So Sepp still in contention and Wout riding away into the fog. Imagine if something like that would to happen.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Comparing Cobo to Kuss and Valverde to van Aert in terms of GC racing. I don't see it. Distinct difference.

(at the time):

Valverde had won the 2009 Vuelta and not gone for a GT GC since.

Cobo was the defending Vuelta winner.

Should they have told Valverde to ride for Cobo because Cobo was the more recent GT winner?

At the moment, Kuss is a one-hit wonder, a fluke GT winner who got that title because he was underestimated from a break Giovannetti-style, and then the team panicked at the burst of negative PR that came from allowing the other riders to race it out, and told them to knock it off and let Kuss win the race once they'd eliminated all other teams from contention. Since then, Kuss has had a pretty tough season until just recently, and has had illness problems and struggled to assert himself as a legit leader as a result.

He may back it up and prove himself to be very much a worthy GT leader who deserves ongoing support, but until he does, it makes total sense for Visma to have back-up plans. Remember Ryder Hesjedal defending the Giro, being an irrelevance by the end of week 1 and DNSing halfway through week 2? Movistar's attempt to treat David Arroyo as a legit GT GC rider after his surprise podium thanks to the break in 2010, where he got chewed out and spat out back to the 10th-15th range where he'd always been at the race? For three years after winning the Giro, Tao Geogeghan Hart's best WT stage race results were an 8th and a 10th at the Dauphiné. Hugh Carthy got that Vuelta podium but since then has settled largely in bottom-of-the-top-10 anonymity. Kuss could be another Tony Rominger or Primož Roglič, sure, but he could just as easily be one of those guys I mentioned.

Kuss didn't win the Vuelta at age 23 or something that makes them think they have the new hottest commodity in town or anything either. He's going to turn 30 next month. It's totally reasonable to have backup plans in force.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Libertine Seguros

I am aware with your ongoing relationship in regards to Sepp Kuss. So i will read what you wrote with a grain of salt. But OK, you don't want to dedicate Wout to helping Sepp, Wout in your opinion can do whatever he wants as Sepp doesn't deserve such level of support. Fine, it's your opinion.

What about Cian?

 

[tobydawq]

@Libertine Seguros

I am aware with your ongoing relationship in regards to Sepp Kuss. So i will read what you wrote with a grain of salt. But OK, you don't want to dedicate Wout to helping Sepp, Wout in your opinion can do whatever he wants as Sepp doesn't deserve such level of support. Fine, it's your opinion.

What about Cian?

Wout is a much bigger star than Kuss and he also needs to have his freedom if they want to keep him. It really isn't more difficult than that.

I don't see Kuss raising his hands to help Wout win his monuments so why should Wout voluntarily reciprocate? I'm sure he'll give a hand if Kuss actually would end up being in the GC battle but I very much doubt that will happen.

 

[ManicJack]

I don't see Kuss raising his hands to help Wout win his monuments so why should Wout voluntarily reciprocate?

That may be one of weakest arguments I've read on this site

 

[tobydawq]

That may be one of weakest arguments I've read on this site

Damn, I was really proud of it. Almost showed it to my mom.

 

[Valv.Piti]

@Libertine Seguros

I am aware with your ongoing relationship in regards to Sepp Kuss. So i will read what you wrote with a grain of salt. But OK, you don't want to dedicate Wout to helping Sepp, Wout in your opinion can do whatever he wants as Sepp doesn't deserve such level of support. Fine, it's your opinion.

What about Cian?

Again, you cannot be serious. Cian? Really? Like.. really? Come on man. I know you dislike Jumbo and Jonas and what not in the wake of what happened with Primoz, but come on bro.

 

[Netserk]

Again, you cannot be serious. Cian? Really? Like.. really? Come on man. I know you dislike Jumbo and Jonas and what not in the wake of what happened with Primoz, but come on bro.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that Blobloblo should help Kuss?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Is it unreasonable to suggest that Blobloblo should help Kuss?

Oh, I understood his post as Wout should domestique for Cian. I realize that was probably not the way it was intended. But no, that's not unreasonable at all of course.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

@Libertine Seguros

I am aware with your ongoing relationship in regards to Sepp Kuss. So i will read what you wrote with a grain of salt. But OK, you don't want to dedicate Wout to helping Sepp, Wout in your opinion can do whatever he wants as Sepp doesn't deserve such level of support. Fine, it's your opinion.

What about Cian?

It's not about 'deserves' and it's not about my personal feelings. It's about Visma hedging their bet for if Sepp's GC bid fails, because for the time being at least he's a one-hit wonder who has never come into a Grand Tour as the protected leader, and who hasn't had a great season due to circumstances outside of his control.

It's totally reasonable to have a plan B before the race begins.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Libertine Seguros

Usually you dedicate a team leader for a GT race and that is plan A. If it fails for whatever reasons involved you switch to plan B. You tend to wait for at least until plan A fails. Here we have a situation on where plan B was set in motion before the race even started, although Kuss won a Vuelta prep stage race.

So what are you saying then, Visma is going into this race without a dedicated leader as there is like zero chance of succeeding? They already forfeited it? Did they tell Kuss about that or would you like to be the one?

Pun intended.

@tobydawq

I see. Stardom prevents it and Sepp can't return the favour in classics.

@Valv.Piti

Obviously we are determining on who is then there to help Sepp, provisional list being:

• GESINK Robert
• TULETT Ben
• VAN AERT Wout
• KUSS Sepp
• KRUIJSWIJK Steven
• VAN BAARLE Dylan
• UIJTDEBROEKS Cian

So Wout is out due to stardom and Robert likely after that stage win that Remco took away. Ben, Steven, Dylan and Cian then at his disposal?