In cycling winning is always difficult even in lower races and much more winning with that superiority. There are great riders like Benoot, Woods, Kruijswijk, Bennett, Vanmarcke... that despite his high level have problems to win barely anything at any race (WT, H.C. or .1), so no way that what Kuss has acomplished is something easy for any good rider or something like that. The most difficult of the modern cycling is exactly that, to be a winner. Of course Kuss still has to prove that this is no fluke, but what he has done in Utah is quite impressive.
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But Kuss started cycling at a serious level much much later.
Anyone. To think Benoot can do something similar to Kuss on climbing level, considering Kuss rode 2 minutes faster than Horner in his Vuelta winning year on the snowbird stage, you have to be pretty delusional.
Anyone. To think Benoot can do something similar to Kuss on climbing level, considering Kuss rode 2 minutes faster than Horner in his Vuelta winning year on the snowbird stage, you have to be pretty delusional.
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What an incredibly dumb argument. The guy rode his first road face 2 years ago and is beating accomplished climbers in a well-respected race. What did Roglic do at his age? Benoot is a better climber than he is apparently, since his achievements at the age of 23 are better.
Kuss is showing incredible improvement. That doesn’t mean he’s destined to be a cycling superstar, but this argument is beyond ridiculous.
Logic-is-your-friend said:
What an incredibly dumb argument. The guy rode his first road face 2 years ago and is beating accomplished climbers in a well-respected race. What did Roglic do at his age? Benoot is a better climber than he is apparently, since his achievements at the age of 23 are better.
Kuss is showing incredible improvement. That doesn’t mean he’s destined to be a cycling superstar, but this argument is beyond ridiculous.
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LOL skyjumping
Roglič took up cycling in 2012, after quitting ski jumping, because he felt it was too hard to be at the highest level of the sport.
Der Effe said:
LOL skyjumping
Roglič took up cycling in 2012, after quitting ski jumping, because he felt it was too hard to be at the highest level of the sport.
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What a dumb argument... are you talking to yourself? I don't even know what you're responding to. In one response i said i don't consider Utah to be a point of reference for how good a climber you are. In the other, i state the he isn't 20, but that he turns 24 next month. What exactly are you talking about buddy?
Der Effe said:
What a dumb argument... are you talking to yourself? I don't even know what you're responding to. In one response i said i don't consider Utah to be a point of reference for how good a climber you are. In the other, i state the he isn't 20, but that he turns 24 next month. What exactly are you talking about buddy?
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Always nice to see new kid in town, but we don't know too much just yet. Utah at this place in calendar, closely after TdF is a second tier race to be honest. It may be he's peaked for Utah for this reason to collect points while many is wrecked after Tour. Look at his Dauphine performance, different story. Maybe he didn't choose to show his potential at Dauphine, maybe it was decision made on purpose (points from elsewhere).
On stats his TTing doesn't look too strong. Almost too skinny for a GC contender, almost too big for a true climber..So climbing domestique that is?
Always nice to see new kid in town, but we don't know too much just yet. Utah at this place in calendar, closely after TdF is a second tier race to be honest. It may be he's peaked for Utah for this reason to collect points while many is wrecked after Tour. Look at his Dauphine performance, different story. Maybe he didn't choose to show his potential at Dauphine, maybe it was decision made on purpose (points from elsewhere).
On stats his TTing doesn't look too strong. Almost too skinny for a GC contender, almost too big for a true climber..So climbing domestique that is?
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like Froome and GT, he will win the TDF
Although i agree with you, if somebody had told me in 2015 that Dumoulin would be dropping Quintana/Bardet/Pinot on climbs, I would have called them delusional. Benoot might have potential. He is only 72 Kg. If he looses the fatDekker_Tifosi said:
like Froome and GT, he will win the TDF
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No idea, however just being American means you can end up with a name from pretty much anywhere or a totally made up name. There are some interesting names over here.
Zinoviev Letter said:
No idea, however just being American means you can end up with a name from pretty much anywhere or a totally made up name. There are some interesting names over here.
I hoping what Kuss did here will translate over the Europe, but we'll have to wait and see. There are plenty of American/Canadians who have done well in the US based races and it's never translated to Europe.
For what any rider did at 23 years old: Valverde got his first Vuelta and Worlds podiums. However, I would not compare Kuss to Valverde as Kuss took up road racing at a much older age and was not considered a potential star in the sport as a young child. Kuss has only been racing road for 2 years and looks to have a lot of potential to work with.
For what any rider did at 23 years old: Valverde got his first Vuelta and Worlds podiums. However, I would not compare Kuss to Valverde as Kuss took up road racing at a much older age and was not considered a potential star in the sport as a young child. Kuss has only been racing road for 2 years and looks to have a lot of potential to work with.
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Sure, Americans get called anything under the Sun, a melting pot nation and all that. But even so, I don’t think I’ve ever known of a Sepp without some Dutch speaking family somewhere.
Koronin said:
Sure, Americans get called anything under the Sun, a melting pot nation and all that. But even so, I don’t think I’ve ever known of a Sepp without some Dutch speaking family somewhere.
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I get the caution and to some extent agree with it: this is Utah, not a really big race, and it’s riders like Ben Hermans he is beating, rather than Superman Lopez as Sosa did.
But the sheer dominance of the performances, rather than the fact of victory itself, is what stands out with this guy. He just murdered everyone on every climbing stage, grinning away to himself, breathing through his nose as he rode off into the distance. Maybe he never gets much better. Maybe he turns out to be a guy who can’t deal with three weeks. Maybe. But already he’s pretty damn good and there are lots of races where one performance like any of those three can produce a win.
Koronin said:
I get the caution and to some extent agree with it: this is Utah, not a really big race, and it’s riders like Ben Hermans he is beating, rather than Superman Lopez as Sosa did.
But the sheer dominance of the performances, rather than the fact of victory itself, is what stands out with this guy. He just murdered everyone on every climbing stage, grinning away to himself, breathing through his nose as he rode off into the distance. Maybe he never gets much better. Maybe he turns out to be a guy who can’t deal with three weeks. Maybe. But already he’s pretty damn good and there are lots of races where one performance like any of those three can produce a win.
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Ok. I can understand that. It took me until I was in my late 30's to meet someone else with my name let alone the spelling of it. (Uncommon name with an even more uncommon spelling. My mom is big on phonetics.) My name is of German heritage.
Zinoviev Letter said:
Ok. I can understand that. It took me until I was in my late 30's to meet someone else with my name let alone the spelling of it. (Uncommon name with an even more uncommon spelling. My mom is big on phonetics.) My name is of German heritage.
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About the whole Sepp is a Dutch name thing, in German speaking countries the name Sepp is quite common too however it's mostly used as a nickname for people called Josef.
As an Austrian I'm now quite interested in what your name isKoronin said:
About the whole Sepp is a Dutch name thing, in German speaking countries the name Sepp is quite common too however it's mostly used as a nickname for people called Josef.
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Yeah, given his surname he seems rather from German speaking descent. I was thinking about Sepp Blatter.
Gigs_98 said:As an Austrian I'm now quite interested in what your name isKoronin said:
About the whole Sepp is a Dutch name thing, in German speaking countries the name Sepp is quite common too however it's mostly used as a nickname for people called Josef.
Yeah, given his surname he seems rather from German speaking descent. I was thinking about Sepp Blatter.
Sepp Blatter is the most famous Sepp I've heard of before. He's Swiss.
Sepp Kuss's dad is apparently Dolph Kuss, who's been a locally (and nationally?) well-known ski instructor in Durango CO forever. Dolph is in his 80s now, so must've been in his 60s when Sepp was born.
Sepp Kuss's dad is apparently Dolph Kuss, who's been a locally (and nationally?) well-known ski instructor in Durango CO forever. Dolph is in his 80s now, so must've been in his 60s when Sepp was born.
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On Dauphine btw Kuss came in 4 minutes after Benoot, on mountain stages 6 and 17 minutes, stage 7 that is..It's always where's everybody's atm, training or racing. On January Benoot was 5th at the San Juan Alto de Colorado second tier race and winning March Strade Bianche.
IndianCyclist said:Although i agree with you, if somebody had told me in 2015 that Dumoulin would be dropping Quintana/Bardet/Pinot on climbs, I would have called them delusional. Benoot might have potential. He is only 72 Kg. If he looses the fatDekker_Tifosi said:
On Dauphine btw Kuss came in 4 minutes after Benoot, on mountain stages 6 and 17 minutes, stage 7 that is..It's always where's everybody's atm, training or racing. On January Benoot was 5th at the San Juan Alto de Colorado second tier race and winning March Strade Bianche.
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I was referring to your previous statements, where, in the nonsensical parallel universal that is your brain, apparently everyone benefits from the exact same lineair progress. Let’s not take any variables, such as experience on a bike, into account. And why would you when you have Procyclingstats?
Logic-is-your-friend said:
I was referring to your previous statements, where, in the nonsensical parallel universal that is your brain, apparently everyone benefits from the exact same lineair progress. Let’s not take any variables, such as experience on a bike, into account. And why would you when you have Procyclingstats?
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Even if your argument was right and Logis somewhat underrates Hermans (which I don't think) still making 2 minutes over 3 stages on him doesn't make it amazing achievement, right? AMAZING, dudeDekker_Tifosi said:
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Yes but the race is not Tour de France or Giro d'Italia od Tirreno-Adriaico, it's Tour of Utah, you've forgot to realize that.tobydawq said:
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Can you, oh galactically superior sage of imaginary intellect, please point out where i stated that everyone benefits from the exact same lineair progress. Because neither can i remember doing that, and reading back my posts, nor can i find what you are claiming to be there. Either you need new glasses, you need to learn how to read, or you need to learn how to deduct. Also funny that starting with your first response, you feel the need to start insulting, while it is in fact you who is using asinine arguments based on whatever reality you have created inside your head.
As a general rule, i do think a 24 year old will be more accomplished, more complete rider than the same person when he was 20. I'm sure there are few examples to the contrary, but in most if not all cases, there will be other factors in play (mental fatigue, injuries...). Which is why i pointed out to the other poster that he turns 24 next month, and that he is not 20, as that poster seemed to be thinking.
If you are talking about my comparison with Benoot, i wasn't talking about the classics rider Benoot, but about the unproven GC rider Benoot. Who was 12th in the Dauphiné, 3 minutes behind Contador, in 2017 when he was 6 months younger than Kuss. For me, this is more of a reference than winning Utah with 2 minutes ahead Hermans. That doesn't mean Kuss has reached his ceiling, or that he can't improve to become a top climber. Never did i claim this. The only thing i was arguing that this achievement does not blow me away for a 24 year old, and that i do not regard it as a point of reference.
Der Effe said:
Can you, oh galactically superior sage of imaginary intellect, please point out where i stated that everyone benefits from the exact same lineair progress. Because neither can i remember doing that, and reading back my posts, nor can i find what you are claiming to be there. Either you need new glasses, you need to learn how to read, or you need to learn how to deduct. Also funny that starting with your first response, you feel the need to start insulting, while it is in fact you who is using asinine arguments based on whatever reality you have created inside your head.
As a general rule, i do think a 24 year old will be more accomplished, more complete rider than the same person when he was 20. I'm sure there are few examples to the contrary, but in most if not all cases, there will be other factors in play (mental fatigue, injuries...). Which is why i pointed out to the other poster that he turns 24 next month, and that he is not 20, as that poster seemed to be thinking.
If you are talking about my comparison with Benoot, i wasn't talking about the classics rider Benoot, but about the unproven GC rider Benoot. Who was 12th in the Dauphiné, 3 minutes behind Contador, in 2017 when he was 6 months younger than Kuss. For me, this is more of a reference than winning Utah with 2 minutes ahead Hermans. That doesn't mean Kuss has reached his ceiling, or that he can't improve to become a top climber. Never did i claim this. The only thing i was arguing that this achievement does not blow me away for a 24 year old, and that i do not regard it as a point of reference.
And still you keep forgetting that Kuss never had done any road racing at the age of 20, yet Benoot was basically born on a road bike. But since you deliberately keep ignoring things that don’t fit into your twisted reality, I will put you on ignore. Clown.
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Also, how would one go about judging his performances, knowing he's only been riding for 4 years? Should we mentally deduct an extra 5 minutes from his time? How do you factor that in? Wouldn't you just compare him to other racers? And while you are so hell bent on insisting that i am ignoring that fact, you are ignoring the fact that Benoot has been schooled to be classics rider, but has been doing pretty good uphill for someone his weight, without decent preperation for GC on top of that. Benoot finished 12th in the Dauphiné last year going uphill for a long time with the worlds best climbers. He was 14th this year. Kuss was half an hour down in GC (relative to Benoot). But apparently, thinking Benoot can climb is being delusional, lol-worthy. But anyway, yeah. I'm heartbroken that you put me, the clown, on ignore.
Since you are an arrogant little brat that can't communicate without insulting people, this pains me so, so so much, that you would put me on ignore. I'm gutted. Won't sleep tonight. Your response in the BB tour topic also shows your class.Der Effe said:
Also, how would one go about judging his performances, knowing he's only been riding for 4 years? Should we mentally deduct an extra 5 minutes from his time? How do you factor that in? Wouldn't you just compare him to other racers? And while you are so hell bent on insisting that i am ignoring that fact, you are ignoring the fact that Benoot has been schooled to be classics rider, but has been doing pretty good uphill for someone his weight, without decent preperation for GC on top of that. Benoot finished 12th in the Dauphiné last year going uphill for a long time with the worlds best climbers. He was 14th this year. Kuss was half an hour down in GC (relative to Benoot). But apparently, thinking Benoot can climb is being delusional, lol-worthy. But anyway, yeah. I'm heartbroken that you put me, the clown, on ignore.
Re: Re:
I couldn’t find the ignore button, which I thought this was available at this wonderful forum, so I will try one more time.
Kuss, as mentioned, did his first road race 2 years ago. Not his first pro race, but his first pro road race. You can keep using straw men, but it only makes you look more clueless. I, like any sane being, judge him on the progress he has made since his started cycling. Within a year he managed from going top-10 in a race to totally destroying it. The Benoot comparison is utterly stupid, since Benoot is riding for practically the worst climbing team in the entire World Tour, which automatically gives him a lot of freedom.
Kuss on the other hand was adapting to life in Europe, moving away from his safe zone in Colorado - where he lived his entire life. Within a very limited amount of time he already has proven to be of fundamental importance to his teammates, at which at the start of the season he was used as an early domestique, thus giving him an opportunity to adapt to his new life without much pressure. During the same season he already quickly moved up the ranks within his own team, being of great help during latter stages of a race. Just like in the Dauphiné, in which he worked his ass off for his team leader and still managed to finish 34th. But ya, let’s compare him with Benoot who had a free role and wheelsucked his way to the 14th place.
Comparing Benoot his change of focus to Kuss learning an entire new profession is just another of your fallacies, Benoot being extremely allround and always having been good uphill. Apart from training and diet, Benoot his profession has stayed the same. His physique and talent allowed him this transition, just like with Kuss, but the American had had a little more obstacles to overcome.
Logic-is-your-friend said:
I couldn’t find the ignore button, which I thought this was available at this wonderful forum, so I will try one more time.
Kuss, as mentioned, did his first road race 2 years ago. Not his first pro race, but his first pro road race. You can keep using straw men, but it only makes you look more clueless. I, like any sane being, judge him on the progress he has made since his started cycling. Within a year he managed from going top-10 in a race to totally destroying it. The Benoot comparison is utterly stupid, since Benoot is riding for practically the worst climbing team in the entire World Tour, which automatically gives him a lot of freedom.
Kuss on the other hand was adapting to life in Europe, moving away from his safe zone in Colorado - where he lived his entire life. Within a very limited amount of time he already has proven to be of fundamental importance to his teammates, at which at the start of the season he was used as an early domestique, thus giving him an opportunity to adapt to his new life without much pressure. During the same season he already quickly moved up the ranks within his own team, being of great help during latter stages of a race. Just like in the Dauphiné, in which he worked his ass off for his team leader and still managed to finish 34th. But ya, let’s compare him with Benoot who had a free role and wheelsucked his way to the 14th place.
Comparing Benoot his change of focus to Kuss learning an entire new profession is just another of your fallacies, Benoot being extremely allround and always having been good uphill. Apart from training and diet, Benoot his profession has stayed the same. His physique and talent allowed him this transition, just like with Kuss, but the American had had a little more obstacles to overcome.
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