Sergio Henao

[samhocking]

It doesn't matter if it exists or not, the bigger issue is why do you need to cover something up. Why do they need to cover something up if they are protected or not. Nobody anywhere needed to know what Sky announced if they are protected and nobody needs to know if they are not. The issue was internal to Sky until they externalised it. Not the actions of the guilty or even someone double-bluffing in my experience anyway.

 

[samhocking]

To put it simpler terms. The only party who needed to know anything about Henao's first out of competition test was CADF. After CADF cleared it, everything else was made public by Sky when they received Henao's passport for the past 3 months. There wasn't a reason to go public on Henao, no need to make the statement about a study at altitude being done, no need to say a report would be published, no need to pull Henao out of competition for 10 weeks. Henao was already clear to race by UCI because they gave Sky his passport data already and didn't opne a case on his passport data.

 

[samhocking]

Winter 2013: First out of competition blood testing on high altitude natives started in Columbia for the very first time by CADF
Winter 2013 & 2014: Two out-of-competition blood tests were taken from Henao during the off-season by CADF while he's at home at altitude. One of these was in Jan 2014.
March 2014: The Jan 2014 test result now in Henao's passport and with Sky (takes 3 months for passport tests to get back to teams)
March 2014: Sky pull Henao out of competition because Jan 2014 test result shows anomilies, despite this test result not raising any cases with UCI/CADF

 

[.Froomestrong.]

Re:

To put it simpler terms. The only party who needed to know anything about Henao's first out of competition test was CADF. After CADF cleared it, everything else was made public by Sky when they received Henao's passport for the past 3 months. There wasn't a reason to go public on Henao, no need to make the statement about a study at altitude being done, no need to say a report would be published, no need to pull Henao out of competition for 10 weeks. Henao was already clear to race by UCI because they gave Sky his passport data already and didn't opne a case on his passport data.

Sam, all of those points are addressed by the term, "smokescreen".
I wonder if you are trying to avoid acknowledging this on purpose, or if you honestly dont understand it.

My Dad used to tell me that when everyone around you tells you that you are wrong, you would be well advised to try to understand their points.

In this case, Sam, everyone seems to understand that Sky/Brailsford was proactive about Henao's BP "issues", and by putting them in the public domain first- and promising a full investigation and report of the findings-was able to avoid scrutiny for around 2 years.
That is a very effective smokescreen. Brailsford is a very sharp propagandist, indeed.

 

[samhocking]

Explain to me how Sky telling the world Sheffield Uni is conducting a study on Henao buys Brailsford two years on Henao with UCI, WADA or whoever you think it buys 2 years?

Henao was already cleared to race in March 2014 - his blood already tested and passport already analysed. There was nothing to hide, because nothing existed if a protected rider or not in terms of it being in the public domain. Sky made it exist themselves by announcing the study. It doesn't take a doctor 10 weeks to clean your blood so you can begin racing in Europe. If it does, Sky are using the wrong doping products and seem to only be using them on Henao lol!

 

[thehog]

Re:

Explain to me how Sky telling the world Sheffield Uni is conducting a study on Henao buys Brailsford two years on Henao with UCI, WADA or whoever you think it buys 2 years?

Henao was already cleared to race in March 2014 - his blood already tested and passport already analysed. There was nothing to hide, because nothing existed. Sky made it exist. It doesn't take a doctor 10 weeks to clean your blood. If it does, Sky are using the wrong doping products and seem to only be using them on Henao lol!

That's not true. The issue arose because Heano agent raised the anomalous values not Sky.

The announcement comes after Gazzetta dello Sport quoted Henao's agent as saying that his rider was off the racing roster, due to anomalous values. Henao will now go back to his native Colombia, to undergo further testing to understand the significance of these levels.

The story first appeared in La Gazzetta Dello Sport where British journalist Daniel Friebe picked up on it. Within minutes Team Sky put out a press release.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sergio-henao-taken-off-sky-roster-due-to-test-anomalies/

No doubt Sky were licking their wounds on JTL and went into damage control mode...

Henao is the second Sky rider, in the last 6 months, to give anomalous results. Jonathan Tiernan-Locke pulled out of the World Championships last September due to a UCI investigation into anomalies on his biological passport. Sky say that these findings came from his time on the Endura racing team in 2012. The Tiernan-Locke case is still in progress and the British rider is yet to race this season.

 

[samhocking]

So the study was announced by Sky because his agent announced it first? I don't see what damage limitation is required even if Henao's agent announced the results. These are not UCI results. They are internal results.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

Sam, all of those points are addressed by the term, "smokescreen".
I wonder if you are trying to avoid acknowledging this on purpose, or if you honestly dont understand it.

My Dad used to tell me that when everyone around you tells you that you are wrong, you would be well advised to try to understand their points.

In this case, Sam, everyone seems to understand that Sky/Brailsford was proactive about Henao's BP "issues", and by putting them in the public domain first- and promising a full investigation and report of the findings-was able to avoid scrutiny for around 2 years.
That is a very effective smokescreen. Brailsford is a very sharp propagandist, indeed.

Right on the money.

And, if they can they will say it was before he joined Sky as well.

Spin.

Spin.

Spin.

 

[samhocking]

If anyone can tell me what Sky's study, real or not actually does to provide a smokescreen, limit damage or buy a team time, because their own internal passport analysis raises a suspicion with their own riders blood, please tell me. You can say the words 'damage limitation, 'smokescreen', 'lies' all you want, but until why, it doesn't mean anything when the tests are not UCI ones, but your own you're announcing to the world or your riders agent is announcing to the world, or Joe Bloggs around the corner for that matter.

 

[thehog]

Re:

So the study was announced by Sky because his agent announced it first? I don't see what damage limitation is required even if Henao's agent announced the results. These are not UCI results. They are internal results.

No, he mentioned the anomalous values to why Heano wasn't racing, "the faux study" was Sky's spin version:

...saying that his rider was off the racing roster, due to anomalous values

 

[samhocking]

But they are Sky's 'anomalous' values. Only Sky and UCI have Henao's passport data and only Sky and Henao's agent said they were anomalous. If Sky or Henao's agent has the results, they can only have them 'after' UCI has released them. This is my point. If Sky are protected by UCI, why are they passing on results to the agent that would raise suspicions or why are Sky or the agent announcing protected or not if they don;t have to? It doesnt add up whatsoever. I would doubt UCI release passport to agents anyway. At least not in line with WADA code anyway.

 

[thehog]

Re:

But they are Sky's 'anomalous' values. Only Sky and UCI have Henao's passport data and only Sky and Henao's agent said they were anomalous. If Sky or Henao's agent has the results, they can only have them 'after' UCI has released them. This is my point. If Sky are protected by UCI, why are they passing on results to the agent that would raise suspicions or why are Sky announcing protected or not. It doesnt add up whatsoever. I would doubt UCI release passport to agents anyway. At least not in line with WADA code anyway.

You really don't have a handle on this do you?

They are not Sky's values', it was a UCI out of competition test. Heano was withdrawn from the Tirreno-Adriatico and no one was none the wiser until his agent released the story about his 'non-racing'.

The values in question come from a test done in October when Henao was back in Colombia, as part of the UCI's out-of-competition testing

The announcement comes after Gazzetta dello Sport quoted Henao's agent as saying that his rider was off the racing roster, due to anomalous values. Henao will now go back to his native Colombia, to undergo further testing to understand the significance of these levels.

The Colombian was due to race at Tirreno-Adriatico last week, but didn't take to the start line. His last race was the Tour of Oman, where he finished seventh, just over a minute behind his team leader Chris Froome. The eight-week time frame means that he could return in May, missing the Vuelta a País Vasco next month. He is due to ride the Critérium du Dauphiné and make his debut at the Tour de France this summer.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Question:

Was Sergio renewed between the "study" and now ? I assume so, but cannot find confirmation.

When he signed he was "one of the biggest talents ever" which Brailsford says about everyone he hires...

In a press release, Sky team Principal Dave Brailsford said: “We identified Sergio as a real talent some time ago and have been watching his development closely during the last two years.

“His performance in Utah this week confirms our belief that he is one of the World’s biggest climbing talents and has a very bright future ahead of him.”

 

[samhocking]

The UCI didn't pull him out of Tirreno-Adriatico. Henao didn't take to the start line. Sky raced with the full 8 in the opening TTT and Henao not one of them.

 

[thehog]

Re:

The UCI didn't pull him out of Tirreno-Adriatico. Henao didn't take to the start line. Sky raced with 6 in the opening TTT.

Yes, Sky withdrew him without telling anyone why.

It wasn't until the agent told Gazetta is was due to dodgy blood values. Then Sky came about with the story about "natives", "altitude", "research papers", all of which has never been conducted or even remotely true.

And now here we are.... no report, just Sky pointing fingers at everyone else and Heano facing a 4 year ban for a passport violation due to doping.

Edit: Look your post has been edited to 7 riders, LOL!

 

[carolina]

then the more pertinent question should be: why does a OOC test is viewed as normal to the UCI, but anomalous for sky?

 

[thehog]

Re:

then the more pertinent question should be: why does a OOC test is viewed as normal to the UCI, but anomalous for sky?

Because the passport is "longitude" not about a single test. Again he was pulled from "racing" to not trip the tripwire and be tested again during a race. Then the agent let the cat out of the bag.

What Sky were avoiding was the dots being joined at the next test, Froome and Porte also withdrew that same weekend from racing.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

The UCI didn't pull him out of Tirreno-Adriatico. Henao didn't take to the start line. Sky raced with 6 in the opening TTT.

Yes, Sky withdrew him without telling anyone why.

It wasn't until the agent told Gazetta is was due to dodgy blood values. Then Sky came about with the story about "natives", "altitude", "research papers", all of which has never been conducted or even remotely true.

And now here we are.... no report, just Sky pointing fingers at everyone else and Heano facing a 4 year ban for a passport violation due to doping.

Edit: Look your post has been edited to 7 riders, LOL!

Was 8 riders. I don't remember, I thought 6 and had to look it up to check and then edited.
My point remain's where is the smokescreen if the dodgy values are not coming from UCI to the world. Henao's agent might have known a few days before it was announced by Sky, it doesn't change much to my point. Why would Sky need a smokescreen against their own dodgy values? Any why a smokescreen that takes 10 weeks.

 

[carolina]

Re: Re:

then the more pertinent question should be: why does a OOC test is viewed as normal to the UCI, but anomalous for sky?

Because the passport is "longitude" not about a single test. Again he was pulled from "racing" to not trip the tripwire and be tested again during a race. Then the agent let the cat out of the bag.

What Sky were avoiding was the dots being joined at the next test, Froome and Porte also with drew that same weekend from racing.

ah, that makes more sense now or, at least, it's a reasonable theory. I was forgeting how the BP works.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

The UCI didn't pull him out of Tirreno-Adriatico. Henao didn't take to the start line. Sky raced with 6 in the opening TTT.

Yes, Sky withdrew him without telling anyone why.

It wasn't until the agent told Gazetta is was due to dodgy blood values. Then Sky came about with the story about "natives", "altitude", "research papers", all of which has never been conducted or even remotely true.

And now here we are.... no report, just Sky pointing fingers at everyone else and Heano facing a 4 year ban for a passport violation due to doping.

Edit: Look your post has been edited to 7 riders, LOL!

My point remain's where is the smokescreen if the dodgy values are not coming from UCI to the world. Henao's agent might have known a few days before it was announced by Sky, it doesn't change much to my point. Why would Sky need a smokescreen against their own dodgy values? Any why a smokescreen that takes 10 weeks.

Because Sky wouldn't have announced anything would they?

Until they agent revealed the reason for the withdrawal. If you're going to trip the tripwire then you get withdrawn from racing. You don't want the next passport test to show a sharp downturn or upturn. You limit the chance of another passport test by withdrawing from racing and going straight back to altitude. That's how you beat the passport.

 

[samhocking]

Well if they didn't anounce it, nobody would have ever known. Only UCI and Sky have the data.

The whole study story doesn't change the fact. sky were already in the clear and Henao could have raced, they had the passport data from UCI first, not the agent. If a team has a riders passport data, that rider has no UCI case against them. That's clearly in the WADA rules. If all they needed was a couple of days to clear Henao's blood, a simply 'cold' statement would have done the job without a whole University study and weeks in Columbia.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Well if they didn't anounce it, nobody would have ever known. Only UCI and Sky have the data.

The whole study story doesn't change the fact. sky were already in the clear and Henao could have raced, they had the passport data from UCI first, not the agent. If a team has a riders passport data, that rider has no UCI case against them. That's clearly in the WADA rules. If all they needed was a couple of days to clear Henao's blood, a simply 'cold' statement would have done the job without a whole University study and weeks in Columbia.

Of course, I agree.

However; Until his agent said it was due to the "anomalous value".

You get why now Sky had to go into damage control and make stories up about reports, altitude and natives?

Without the agent slipping up, he would have been withdrawn from the race and re-entered a few weeks later after a trip to altitude and no one would have cared.

Its also not about "clearing blood", its about making sure you don't have another test at sea level with a significantly higher or lower blood values. This is not urine or the hematocrit health test. Please understand how the passport works before posting inane comments, its not a matter of saline clearing.

 

[thehog]

And I'll add;

The fact there is no report and the university has moved the "no comment" stage, it shows what the original intention was to simply avoid another passport test to trip the trip wire at sea level.

It took Heano's agent to inadvertently state the reason for the withdrawal, then for Friebe to pick up on it as he speaks Italian and translated to the English speaking news organisations. Without these parts no one would ever know.

Which backs up JTLs claim about several riders at Sky getting letters and posting odd values.

 

[samhocking]

There was only two out of competition tests on Henao in winter of 2013/14 by CADF, they've already said this publicly. They took blood from him in October 2013 and second week of Jan 2014. Adriatico is March. I don't get what he needs to come down from? He's been with the team from Jan 13 training camp onwards and if you believe he's doping, he's doping either right under sky's nose for 3 months while training with other riders also at Adriatico or Sky messed up. If Sky messed up just before Adriatico. His passport showing anomalies would be an issue in April/May not March.

 

[samhocking]

And i'll repeat. For Sky or Henao's agent to know there are anomalies in his passport from October 2013 and Jan 2014 out of competition blood tests in early March 2014, UCI has already analysed and not seen any anomalies. I guess they could forward the passport data to a team before it's been analysed, but not sure what the benefits would be even if you wanted to hide information or protect a team. You just need to hide the information and protect the team, why share information that doesn't yet need to be shared?