Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

[Gloin22]

Re: Re:

[quote="]

as an aside...it would not cost much to send a team to the women's Giro...

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Cycling hardly works like that, you don't just send a team to ride Giro and call it a year. To be competitive you need ride many races and train, which adds to cost and makes it just silly waste of money, for Sky at least.

However if BC was partnering with Sky they could have indeed worked something out in early years.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

[quote="]

as an aside...it would not cost much to send a team to the women's Giro...

[/quote][/quote]

Cycling hardly works like that, you don't just send a team to ride Giro and call it a year. To be competitive you need ride many races and train, which adds to cost and makes it just silly waste of money, for Sky at least.

However if BC was partnering with Sky they could have indeed worked something out in early years.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

i know...mat was using sending a team to the Tour as a reference point

 

[Moller]

I can see someone getting really pissed off in all this fairly soon and doing a 'Landis' on BC a la US Postal

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

[quote="]

as an aside...it would not cost much to send a team to the women's Giro...

[/quote][/quote]

Cycling hardly works like that, you don't just send a team to ride Giro and call it a year. To be competitive you need ride many races and train, which adds to cost and makes it just silly waste of money, for Sky at least.

However if BC was partnering with Sky they could have indeed worked something out in early years.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

although a 'silly' waste of money? a properly funded women's cycling team doing a year long program?

is women's sport worth doing at all I wonder...waste of cheerleaders?

 

[TomLPC]

This dimwit Kennuagh just overtook Richie P in the "Most likely to blow the whole sky operation" odds

 

[thehog]

Re:

This dimwit Kennuagh just overtook Richie P in the "Most likely to blow the whole sky operation" odds

Lol!

I wonder if Leinders was equally available to the women to take their weights as well? Or only the men who got the foremost expert in weighing cyclists?

Maybe David Walsh will investigate?

 

[hrotha]

I see him as the guy who's too stupid to jump ship and cut his losses while staying ahead of the game, myself. So no whistleblowing, ever.

 

[Gloin22]

Re: Re:

[quote="]

as an aside...it would not cost much to send a team to the women's Giro...

[/quote]

Cycling hardly works like that, you don't just send a team to ride Giro and call it a year. To be competitive you need ride many races and train, which adds to cost and makes it just silly waste of money, for Sky at least.

However if BC was partnering with Sky they could have indeed worked something out in early years.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

although a 'silly' waste of money? a properly funded women's cycling team doing a year long program?

is women's sport worth doing at all I wonder...waste of cheerleaders?[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

There would be no official sports if investors didn't make money. Let's start with that. Some women's sports do bring income and are therefore on high scale of consumption, women's tennis being great example.

Even men's team don't bring big profits to their investors. If men barely make money, women would be a waste of money yes, in current climate. UCI is trying to shake things up, we'll see what comes of it. I think many people want to see more women's cycling, but it's just not feasible right now.

I recommend reading this book for more depth about it: http://inrng.com/2015/11/book-review-the-economics-of-professional-road-cycling/

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

[quote="]

as an aside...it would not cost much to send a team to the women's Giro...

Cycling hardly works like that, you don't just send a team to ride Giro and call it a year. To be competitive you need ride many races and train, which adds to cost and makes it just silly waste of money, for Sky at least.

However if BC was partnering with Sky they could have indeed worked something out in early years.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

although a 'silly' waste of money? a properly funded women's cycling team doing a year long program?

is women's sport worth doing at all I wonder...waste of cheerleaders?[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

There would be no official sports if investors didn't make money. Let's start with that. Some women's sports do bring income and are therefore on high scale of consumption, women's tennis being great example.

Even men's team don't bring big profits to their investors. If men barely make money, women would be a waste of money yes, in current climate. UCI is trying to shake things up, we'll see what comes of it. I think many people want to see more women's cycling, but it's just not feasible right now.

I recommend reading this book for more depth about it: http://inrng.com/2015/11/book-review-the-economics-of-professional-road-cycling/[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

will have a look at that...cheers

 

[saganftw]

its the same problem that was discussed maybe a month or two months ago in football,amy wambach (retired american player) made some remarks,basically saying women footballers should make more and the arguments were excatly the same as here...unless they start generating more they wont get more,end of story

 

[thehog]

British Cycling admits it didn't know Shane Sutton was still on Team Sky payroll. Sky refuses to comment on specifics of role or amount paid

Ummmmmm ok? Wasn't there an internal audit conducted by Delottiee on this topic? Mixing government money with private?

Not good.

There is no risk to the success of the World Class Performance Programme relating to the relationship between British Cycling and Team Sky, according to a review undertaken by auditing and consultancy firm Deloitte, details of which were released on Wednesday.

Deloitte also concluded that there was actually a benefit to Olympic and Paralympic riders from their relationship with the Sky programme.

The review was commissioned jointly by British Cycling and UK Sport in early 2010 to look into the relationship between UK cycling’s governing body and the newly-formed Sky team, which shares many of the same staff as the WCPP.

The WCPP was created to nurture cycling talent in Britain with the aim of producing medals in cycling disciplines at the Olympic Games. Team Sky started racing as a ProTour-level (now Worldtour) team at the start of the 2010 season aiming for success at top international road races.

Concerns were expressed after the formation of Sky that shared management staff and British riders would be spread too thinly, leading to poor performance in top-level events. For example, British Cycling performance director David Brailsford was also appointed as Team Principal for the Sky squad – two jobs with distinct roles.

Despite the positive outcome of the review, Deloitte did have several recommendations, including the formation of an operational document to clearly outline the roles of staff involved in both BC and Sky team organisations – this would form the backbone of regular reviews to highlight any conflicts. It was also recommended that BC appoint a finance director, a role which is currently being advertised.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/no-conflict-of-interest-between-british-cycling-and-sky-says-report-53309#ZxIHKbWxSmRiUB5b.99

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

its the same problem that was discussed maybe a month or two months ago in football,amy wambach (retired american player) made some remarks,basically saying women footballers should make more and the arguments were excatly the same as here...unless they start generating more they wont get more,end of story

Pooley is talking about opportunities not wages

opportunities cost money but then that what national sports governing bodies are for.....

 

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

its the same problem that was discussed maybe a month or two months ago in football,amy wambach (retired american player) made some remarks,basically saying women footballers should make more and the arguments were excatly the same as here...unless they start generating more they wont get more,end of story

Pooley is talking about opportunities not wages

opportunities cost money but then that what national sports governing bodies are for.....

she is talking about money,doesnt matter whether in "wages" or "support"...money that sponsor only give to those who can generate return

considering how corrupt any national governing body is,i doubt there would be money for any support unless its a big sporting event which obviously women giro isnt

 

[Benotti69]

Seems Sutton not liked by many at all.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/28/shane-sutton-british-cycling-dirty-terrorist-alleged-remark

"Shane Sutton accused of ‘dirty terrorist’ and ‘bitches’ remarks by British cyclists.."

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

its the same problem that was discussed maybe a month or two months ago in football,amy wambach (retired american player) made some remarks,basically saying women footballers should make more and the arguments were excatly the same as here...unless they start generating more they wont get more,end of story

Pooley is talking about opportunities not wages

opportunities cost money but then that what national sports governing bodies are for.....

she is talking about money,doesnt matter whether in "wages" or "support"...money that sponsor only give to those who can generate return

considering how corrupt any national governing body is,i doubt there would be money for any support unless its a big sporting event which obviously women giro isnt

if BMW can create a market for the X6 anything is possible...

whilst I have not read the booked linked above, sponsorship (which may get very specific in the book above), in general returns are pretty intangible and the concept of return in an economic sense rather nebulous...if a sports governing body had wanted it to happen it could have happened...if that needs the success of the more lucrative men's circuit to leverage it in...so what...

that is Pooley's lament

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re:

Shane Sutton looks like Cotton Hill.

 

[thehog]

I can see someone getting really pissed off in all this fairly soon and doing a 'Landis' on BC a la US Postal

More to the point, I do wonder what Sutton was really saying about Froome when he was riding into flowerbeds, pushing Henderson, hanging on to motobikes and finishing in the grupetto?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

its the same problem that was discussed maybe a month or two months ago in football,amy wambach (retired american player) made some remarks,basically saying women footballers should make more and the arguments were excatly the same as here...unless they start generating more they wont get more,end of story

Pooley is talking about opportunities not wages

opportunities cost money but then that what national sports governing bodies are for.....

she is talking about money,doesnt matter whether in "wages" or "support"...money that sponsor only give to those who can generate return

considering how corrupt any national governing body is,i doubt there would be money for any support unless its a big sporting event which obviously women giro isnt

considering how 'corrupt' people are at British cycling (no doubt other federations follow similar patterns, just look at UCI) it is no wonder the sport continues to trawl the cesspit

 

[sniper]

I can see someone getting really pissed off in all this fairly soon and doing a 'Landis' on BC a la US Postal

More to the point, I do wonder what Sutton was really saying about Froome when he was riding into flowerbeds, pushing Henderson, hanging on to motobikes and finishing in the grupetto?

a pity Froome wasn't riding for Sky yet here:

Would have paid to hear Sutton comment on it

 

[thehog]

Sutton thought this guy was a pure talent but none of the women..

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

LOL. Got this off Slowtwitch:

"My mother used to be a commissaire in the UK many moons ago, and when she wasn't doing that she would take teams over to races like the Ras and some stuff on the continent etc. She's now in her 70's and has Parkinsons so her memory is sketchy at times. I said to her today about this and her first reaction "oh that foul mouthed little Australian man who used to shout abuse at me in the caravan"

Obviously left an impression....."

 

[thehog]

Sounds like this is endemic in British Cycling. Not too hard to imagine there is also a doping program within BC.

The Guardian has spoken to several former and current British Cycling staff and the accusations of inaction over Sutton’s behavior date back at least to 2007. Ian Drake, British Cycling’s current chief executive, had allegedly been informed about Sutton’s conduct during an unfair-dismissal procedure involving the former Paralympic head coach David Mellor, whose case was settled out of court. Documents from Mellor’s evidence shown to the Guardian cited an episode in which Sutton was described as coming to the coach’s office and shouting “get those *** gimps off the track”.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/28/british-cycling-ignored-claims-shane-sutton-years-say-staff

Drake said: “I have never been made aware, formally or informally, of any allegation that Shane Sutton had used the offensive term ‘gimps’ in reference to Paralympic athletes prior to the media reports of the past few days. The suggestion that I would have not acted on such an allegation is wholly wrong.”

Mellor said the episode had taken place after a Paralympic cyclist had wobbled on his bike during a warm-up behind a motorbike shared with able-bodied cyclists. In an email to the Guardian Mellor said: “‘Get those *** Gimps’ was a phrase that was used by Shane [Sutton] and I confirm was ignored by Ian Drake when raised by me.”

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Sounds like this is endemic in British Cycling. Not too hard to imagine there is also a doping program within BC.

The Guardian has spoken to several former and current British Cycling staff and the accusations of inaction over Sutton’s behavior date back at least to 2007. Ian Drake, British Cycling’s current chief executive, had allegedly been informed about Sutton’s conduct during an unfair-dismissal procedure involving the former Paralympic head coach David Mellor, whose case was settled out of court. Documents from Mellor’s evidence shown to the Guardian cited an episode in which Sutton was described as coming to the coach’s office and shouting “get those **** gimps off the track”.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/28/british-cycling-ignored-claims-shane-sutton-years-say-staff

Drake said: “I have never been made aware, formally or informally, of any allegation that Shane Sutton had used the offensive term ‘gimps’ in reference to Paralympic athletes prior to the media reports of the past few days. The suggestion that I would have not acted on such an allegation is wholly wrong.”

Mellor said the episode had taken place after a Paralympic cyclist had wobbled on his bike during a warm-up behind a motorbike shared with able-bodied cyclists. In an email to the Guardian Mellor said: “‘Get those **** Gimps’ was a phrase that was used by Shane [Sutton] and I confirm was ignored by Ian Drake when raised by me.”

If dude said that then he is a sorry SOB. A sorry excuse for a human and no way he should be allowed young cyclist or older cyclist.

What a D-whistle.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

I see him as the guy who's too stupid to jump ship and cut his losses while staying ahead of the game, myself. So no whistleblowing, ever.

Dont worry, his contract will be solid, with BC and Sky, no burning of ships for this Omerta man.

 

[Beech Mtn]

There's a bit more in this article from the Yates thread (which may have been posted upthread here too, not sure)
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...g-ignored-claims-shane-sutton-years-say-staff

Mellor also stated that in his view the Paralympic athletes were discriminated against when it came to resources, for example travelling at times without a doctor or, on one occasion, being asked to scrap a training camp when the able‑bodied team’s budget fell short. The governing body did not comment further on the allegations.

Several separate sources have described how Sutton was “sacked” after the Beijing Olympics but reinstated.

British Cycling is also fending off claims that it is covering up a report into the programme’s structure carried out after London 2012, where staff claim concerns over Sutton’s approach were raised. The report was carried out by the former British Cycling chief executive Peter King, who told the Guardian he had conducted interviews with “about two‑thirds” of the team personnel from Dave Brailsford to the stores man and included riders. King said that the report was delivered on 11 November 2012 and “did not identify any individual either positively or negatively. There was no personalisation of any of the comments in the report.”

British Cycling’s current team doctor, Richard Freeman, told the Guardian the report was “an opportunity missed”.

“We never got the results in spite of various requests to see it. Nothing changed,” he said. Freeman says he saw the report as “an attempt to change the culture because we feared it would get worse if Dave Brailsford left”.

However, the Guardian has been told by a former staff member who contributed to the report that he had flagged up serious concerns about bullying of one particular staff member who subsequently left the team – and misappropriation of British Cycling resources in the report. He states that he categorically warned Drake about appointing Sutton as technical director.