So what's the new scandal?

[Oldman]

Weisel should have enough separation in the communication chain to unless they go back to some of the USPS/Disco Master's teams. He and Eddie B were real close...no, that's too smalltime. Could Bruyneel be nailed in France for links to crimes on their soil? They seem pretty quick to imprison for questioning.

 

[Race Radio]

Weisel should have enough separation in the communication chain to unless they go back to some of the USPS/Disco Master's teams. He and Eddie B were real close...no, that's too smalltime. Could Bruyneel be nailed in France for links to crimes on their soil? They seem pretty quick to imprison for questioning.

Weisel cut his ties with Eddie a long time ago, maybe 15 years back. He also was out of the team almost 8 years ago. I think he is pretty well insulated.

Others, like a business manager that moved money around, are not so secure. Or a Chiropractor that you tried to sue.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Can you give us any insight into what we might expect in the article. If you can't due to your sources, perhaps indicate what is NOT in the article And what day we might expect the article

BTW are you working for Amnesty or are you a "just" a fan of them?

My understanding is there could be significant corroboration of Landis' claims, and further details from riders that were named. I also understand there may be extended details and verifications from riders not named but were present on USPS during the time these allegations took place.

I will be very keen to see just how far the article goes to implicate the greater cast of the team management, and other dealings behind the scenes, such as where the money came from to fund the doping program.

I also will be very keen to read any further non-denials or other statements as to offers to cooperate with investigations or what stance these athletes will take once the article DOES go to print.

If it is such that it comes out right before the Tour start, and the seriousness of the corroborations and extended details that could further implicate Armstrong or Bruyneel, the reactions in the press and from the UCI, ASO, USA Cycling and the RS team, will be quite interesting.

Will it be "Some people just want to damage cycling by drudging up the past, we won't allow cycling to be further destroyed by so many with axes to grind.", or will it be, "Due to the many admissions and detailed exposure of the purported internal doping programs employed by the teams of Lance Armstrong, it is in the best interest of cycling to ask Mr. Armstrong to step away from his racing calendar until such a time that these serious and repeated charges have been investigated."


As for Amnesty, no, I don't work there. I was part of an effort to implement GIS/GPS to serve as an "eye-in-the-sky" to monitor at-risk areas where large scale genocide situations could occur.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one (shocked, I know). If people start going down over the Landis allegations, you can promptly stick a fork in Armstrong. The nature of the allegations are such that if he's not convicted, his team was implicated. Politics is a brutal and nasty sport, one I'm not sure Armstrong is up for even in the absence of these allegations. Having someone in his inner circle convicted, would be a death knell for his political aspirations.

That being said, there is a lot that has to happen for anyone to be convicted of anything. Frankly, I can't see Hincapie or Levi going to jail. I can see them turning state's evidence, however.

I think the days of the celebrity Senator and wannabe senators is drawing to a close. I don't think voters have much appetite for that type of elected official right now. Beyond that, this part of the discussion will belong in a different thread.

I think conviction of a crime, especially with a jail sentence, even a small one would be as close as we get to justice for him. At least in this lifetime. I think pleading to a lesser crime for no time, if it ever gets that far which is a huge if, would probably happen first.

But boy, aren't I getting ahead of myself?

 

[goober]

My understanding is there could be significant corroboration of Landis' claims, and further details from riders that were named. I also understand there may be extended details and verifications from riders not named but were present on USPS during the time these allegations took place.

I will be very keen to see just how far the article goes to implicate the greater cast of the team management, and other dealings behind the scenes, such as where the money came from to fund the doping program.

I also will be very keen to read any further non-denials or other statements as to offers to cooperate with investigations or what stance these athletes will take once the article DOES go to print.

If it is such that it comes out right before the Tour start, and the seriousness of the corroborations and extended details that could further implicate Armstrong or Bruyneel, the reactions in the press and from the UCI, ASO, USA Cycling and the RS team, will be quite interesting.

Will it be "Some people just want to damage cycling by drudging up the past, we won't allow cycling to be further destroyed by so many with axes to grind.", or will it be, "Due to the many admissions and detailed exposure of the purported internal doping programs employed by the teams of Lance Armstrong, it is in the best interest of cycling to ask Mr. Armstrong to step away from his racing calendar until such a time that these serious and repeated charges have been investigated."


As for Amnesty, no, I don't work there. I was part of an effort to implement GIS/GPS to serve as an "eye-in-the-sky" to monitor at-risk areas where large scale genocide situations could occur.

Where are you getting this understanding (or at least the credibility level)? Not being negative against you; just really interested as I have a pretty good inside scoop myself (from what I consider a very good source) and my source is way off if your source is correct.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Where are you getting this understanding (or at least the credibility level)? Not being negative against you; just really interested as I have a pretty good inside scoop myself (from what I consider a very good source) and my source is way off if your source is correct.

All I can comfortably say is that my sources have yet to direct me in the wrong direction.

I suppose we will have to wait until the story breaks. I won't be saying "I told you so", that is not my style.

As to your inside scoop, in what way is it contradictory to what I understand to be coming?

 

[goober]

All I can comfortably say is that my sources have yet to direct me in the wrong direction.

I suppose we will have to wait until the story breaks. I won't be saying "I told you so", that is not my style.

As to your inside scoop, in what way is it contradictory to what I understand to be coming?

I will accept the "I told you so" indirectly if a story comes out with significant corraboration or anything that significant other than investigations actually outside of the Landis targeted riders and directors. No biggie to me, I just asked a friend of a friend of a friend of a distant friends uncle (a slight exaggeration but the uncle is in the correct position to comment so I call it credible). The friend of a friend, or maybe the other friend, could be a fanboy (which I have been called even though I could give a crap either way) of Lance. Oh well, glad to hear your source has been on the right path - if I accept that I have no clue what is going on - probably as it should be...

 

[Publicus]

I will accept the "I told you so" indirectly if a story comes out with significant corraboration or anything that significant other than investigations actually outside of the Landis targeted riders and directors. No biggie to me, I just asked a friend of a friend of a friend of a distant friends uncle (a slight exaggeration but the uncle is in the correct position to comment so I call it credible). The friend of a friend, or maybe the other friend, could be a fanboy (which I have been called even though I could give a crap either way) of Lance. Oh well, glad to hear your source has been on the right path - if I accept that I have no clue what is going on - probably as it should be...

ok, but what is your source saying? That part isn't clear from your post.

 

[Polish]

My understanding is there could be significant corroboration of Landis' claims, and further details from riders that were named. I also understand there may be extended details and verifications from riders not named but were present on USPS during the time these allegations took place.

I will be very keen to see just how far the article goes to implicate the greater cast of the team management, and other dealings behind the scenes, such as where the money came from to fund the doping program.

I also will be very keen to read any further non-denials or other statements as to offers to cooperate with investigations or what stance these athletes will take once the article DOES go to print.

If it is such that it comes out right before the Tour start, and the seriousness of the corroborations and extended details that could further implicate Armstrong or Bruyneel, the reactions in the press and from the UCI, ASO, USA Cycling and the RS team, will be quite interesting.

Will it be "Some people just want to damage cycling by drudging up the past, we won't allow cycling to be further destroyed by so many with axes to grind.", or will it be, "Due to the many admissions and detailed exposure of the purported internal doping programs employed by the teams of Lance Armstrong, it is in the best interest of cycling to ask Mr. Armstrong to step away from his racing calendar until such a time that these serious and repeated charges have been investigated."


As for Amnesty, no, I don't work there. I was part of an effort to implement GIS/GPS to serve as an "eye-in-the-sky" to monitor at-risk areas where large scale genocide situations could occur.

Colm, what you say is what EVERYONE is expecting lol.
Do not need any special sources for that lol again.

But where you have misfired is in the TIMING.
You said there would be e-mails/info out last week....
Nothing happened...
Nothing happened this week.
Now you say next week. Well duh.

 

[joe_papp]

...details on upcoming article...snip!

...
But where you have misfired is in the TIMING.
You said there would be e-mails/info out last week....
Nothing happened...
Nothing happened this week.
Now you say next week. Well duh.

It's not his fault that he got the timing wrong. The article was originally planned for tomorrow, but internal debate over technical details, such as in which section to place the article, will see it pushed back into next week until a neutral, senior editor w/in the publication in question can make the final decision on these contentious issues.

The man's got a source, that's for sure. Legend!

 

[SpartacusRox]

I think the days of the celebrity Senator and wannabe senators is drawing to a close. I don't think voters have much appetite for that type of elected official right now. Beyond that, this part of the discussion will belong in a different thread.

I think conviction of a crime, especially with a jail sentence, even a small one would be as close as we get to justice for him. At least in this lifetime. I think pleading to a lesser crime for no time, if it ever gets that far which is a huge if, would probably happen first.

But boy, aren't I getting ahead of myself?

Yeah, not like you at all!

 

[Anonymous]

Im wondering about Michael Barry's inclusion in the tour squad for sky. One of the riders originally named, and has been very quiet since the original allegations. Was a genuine surprise to most that he was included in the Tour Squad. I wonder if he has said or done something to put himself in the clear completely in return for.. well.. im just speculating. DB must be aware of what is about to come out. Makes me think he has no concerns about MB.

 

[red_flanders]

Will it be "Some people just want to damage cycling by drudging up the past, we won't allow cycling to be further destroyed by so many with axes to grind.", or will it be, "Due to the many admissions and detailed exposure of the purported internal doping programs employed by the teams of Lance Armstrong, it is in the best interest of cycling to ask Mr. Armstrong to step away from his racing calendar until such a time that these serious and repeated charges have been investigated."

Should this article come out, anyone want to make a friendly wager? I'll take the UCI and the former statement for $1000.

 

[Anonymous]

It's one thing for the Floyd circus to ruin the ToC with this ancient dirty washing, but ruining the number 1 tour in the world will be seen in an even worse light. I hope this publication will be ready for the backlash. Certainly Europeans aren't going to take kindly to some American media types underminding a great sporting spectacle.

And I can tell you, if your earlier prediction that Armstrong will go to jail over doping takes place then that will go down like a lead balloon not just from cycling fans.

I disagree, as a cycling fan who wants a clean sport I think this is great news. And if lance goes to jail I will be blowing up balloons, not filling them with lead.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I disagree, as a cycling fan who wants a clean sport I think this is great news. And if lance goes to jail I will be blowing up balloons, not filling them with lead.

Let me help you - even though I believe they were following the lead of 'Diet Coke' if you put the word ban in front of their username you get 'BPC'.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

You have to remember that most teams had doping programmes during that era, riders have been banned and come back to win grand tours, so none of this will be surprising to most European cycling fans. That's why there will be a huge groan that this old stuff is being brought up now out of spite.

And I can tell you, if your earlier prediction that Armstrong will go to jail over doping takes place then that will go down like a lead balloon not just from cycling fans.

You are correct in that Lance will not go to jail for doping. He will go to jail for defrauding the US Govt. That distinction is sorely missed by the fanboys and apologists.

What the European, and greater, cycling communities seem to want is closure. They had it with LA's retirement in 2005. When he came back, that was when their was a collective groan. LA had won it all, 7 times over, bullied his detractors, took all the cake and despite building up the global awareness for professional cycling, he was there to suck the air out of the proverbial room.

I neither like, nor dis-like Armstrong. I dislike, in general, those who gain by deceit. Any claim that "those were the times" is invalid. Rationalize it as you need, in order to keep Lance on your pedestal, but the blemish on his legacy has past the tipping point.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

You have to remember that most teams had doping programmes during that era, riders have been banned and come back to win grand tours, so none of this will be surprising to most European cycling fans. That's why there will be a huge groan that this old stuff is being brought up now out of spite.

And I can tell you, if your earlier prediction that Armstrong will go to jail over doping takes place then that will go down like a lead balloon not just from cycling fans.

Nothing wrong with lead balloons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZSkM-QEeUg

Not sure if this one was Busted or it Passed Control though.

 

[Anonymous]

The fact that you see this as a quasi religious issue undermines the case against Armstrong. Can't you dislike him without hating the fans and wanting them to repent for thinking it's a good thing to win seven tours and do a lot for charity?

As for the article, if true then it will be a huge disappointment for cycling fans. It's one thing for the Floyd circus to ruin the ToC with this ancient dirty washing, but ruining the number 1 tour in the world will be seen in an even worse light. I hope this publication will be ready for the backlash. Certainly Europeans aren't going to take kindly to some American media types underminding a great sporting spectacle.

Considering the fact that only religious fervor could lead anyone who knows the weight of evidence against The Uniballer to believe he rode clean, or is anything but a fraud, I believe the comparison is warranted.

As for your assertions regarding the feelings of Europeans should the Tour not include the fraud with one ball, I think you obviously are far removed from reality, but you and I have been over that many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many,
many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, times.

 

[131313]

T
As for the article, if true then it will be a huge disappointment for cycling fans. It's one thing for the Floyd circus to ruin the ToC with this ancient dirty washing, but ruining the number 1 tour in the world will be seen in an even worse light. I hope this publication will be ready for the backlash. Certainly Europeans aren't going to take kindly to some American media types underminding a great sporting spectacle.

I find it both very curious and very telling that you're placing the "blame" on those reporting these activities rather than on those engaged in them.

As far as "ancient dirty washing", transfusion kits belonging to Astana were allegedly found outside of hotel room as long ago as....last year... It that "ancient dirty washing", too? When do we draw the line? Last week?

If people involved with organized, systematic doping are still involved in the sport, it seems absolutely incredulous to me to be so dismissive of the attempt to get to the truth.

Ancient history isn't so ancient when it keeps repeating itself.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

The fact that you see this as a quasi religious issue undermines the case against Armstrong. Can't you dislike him without hating the fans and wanting them to repent for thinking it's a good thing to win seven tours and do a lot for charity?

As for the article, if true then it will be a huge disappointment for cycling fans. It's one thing for the Floyd circus to ruin the ToC with this ancient dirty washing, but ruining the number 1 tour in the world will be seen in an even worse light. I hope this publication will be ready for the backlash. Certainly Europeans aren't going to take kindly to some American media types underminding a great sporting spectacle.

Come now, you've missed the sarcasm.

The fervor with which some come to defend Lance approached zealotry. Reminds me of the scenario where a woman falls for and marries a man who is in prison. I cannot recall the condition (or disorder) but there are parallels here as it relates to Lance and those who rationalize or brush off his transgressions. Since this goes past the governing bodies and the anti-doping community, the crimes being investigated are quite serious and the repercussions will be harsh. Buffering ones sensibilities in order to allow a falsity to perpetuate is my problem with Lance Armstrong.

Cycling fans deserve the truth, and because of Lance's overarching appeal based on his work to battle cancer, the truth could come at a very, very high cost.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay guys, we all know Pepsi Cola is BPC/Arbiter. Since the mods and people who run this site cannot get rid of the cockroach, we need to ignore him. I know I am guilty of responding earlier, but now it the time to stop pretending he warrants response. He is merely here to destroy this forum, and has run many people off already. Our only option is to stop responding to him. He knows that through proxy, he can continue to post here infinitely, and he will do so. He isn't a cycling fan. He does this on a variety of forums with a variety of topics. He is a mentally ill person who trolls forums looking to disrupt and draw attention to himself because his life is wrapped up in the superiority he feels in doing this.

The only way to stop him is to stop responding. He baits, that is what his game is. Either ignore him with the tools of the forum, or just do not respond to his posts.

I am going back and deleting any response I have to him. Please do the same, it is the only rational thing to do.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

No, I am fully aware of this technicality, that is apparently why this is even a criminal case in the first place. That makes it even worse to cycling fans. You can't even mount a proper case.



This is the parallel universe stuff of a small group of people who follow Armstrong every day on cycling forums. Most people at the side of the road and watching on TV were delighted he came back and are hoping it will continue. They will absolutely hate non-cycling drama being the focus of the tour.



I'm just letting you know the history of cycling and the frame work of the sport. European fans already know this. Landis himself is not ashamed to be a doper and obviously thinks no one else should be either. The only reason he is doing this is to settle his debts.

You're getting very carried away by trying to make out Armstrong is satan for getting in a few arguments during his career, and the way you despise his fans and his charity shows sociopath tendencies. There is no sense of humanity from you when you take this approach.

1. Who can't mount a proper case?

2. Sure, the average fan just wants to see the race. And there will be one.

3. Thanks for "letting me know". I am Irish and have 25+ years of following this sport as a fan very closely. I appreciate it but don't need your assistance.

4. How can you speak to why Landis has made these truths known? And, if it were for money does that make them less of a truth?

5. I don't despise anyone in this scenario, least of which are Lance's fans and his charity. I despise the bad behaviour. That you could possibly point to me as a sociopath is just silly and poor form. You know nothing of me, so how does "pi55 off" rate?

If you'd like to argue or discuss the merits of things or their impact, sure, have at it. If you'd like to end up getting flamed and cast aside, that it also your choice. It is Friday and I am in the mood for a go-round.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I'm relaying the fact that cycling fans won't like it one bit if some rag is going to try to spoil the tour with allegations from 8 years ago in the same way they did the ToC. You guys may live for this stuff but most people are into pro cycling for the cycling bit. There will also be a feeling of a witch hunt against Armstrong at this stage in the game - people will rightly think that the past should not be dredged up out of spite to further the agendas of people in dire straits and in debt, or have long term personal disputes. You're not going after any other riders in the same boat.



But that's not what the article is about. For all we know that issue has now be explained and dealt with and it was the common use of vitamins and blood testing equipment.



But most of you guys admit that doping isn't the real reason you hate him anyway - you don't like the way he was loyal to friends like Dr Ferrari when someone tried to ruin him, and you don't like the way he gets credit for winning tours and raising money for charity. Because of this you want to ruin the tour and the sport in the US. I just think it's very selfish and borders on sociopath sometimes.

Mr. Cola, you are a buffoon.

Lance Armstrong and his cohorts endeavored to defraud, essentially, the American public, and the global public as well. He took, by way of illegal and fraudulent means, money and accolades he did not rightly deserve or achieve.

That is it.

If you cannot observe these simple items, without your usual glossing and pffaw-ing, then you deserve no time or energy in discussing these facts.

Pi55 Off.

Gents, I intend to feed the troll... till he bursts. Gluttony is a deadly sin.

 

[metaCYCLE]

Because of this you want to ruin the tour and the sport in the US.

i think you are simply delusional my friend...

 

[Anonymous]

But you're quite an unusual person in that your hobby is to stalk Armstrong on twitter and feed off his fame in a negative fashion.

Most ordinary cycling fans are going to absolutely tear their hair out if the same Landis circus from the ToC comes to the Tour.

I cant see lance on twitter, Im blocked, so stalking him is rather difficult. Anyway, stalkers generally prefer to stay hidden, Im perfectly open in my comments towards lance, hardly the behaviour of a stalker.Im not the only one, countless people have asked him questions, he doesnt reply unless you are kissing his **** or have cancer

Lets just clear this all up.
Lance portrays himself as a) someone who was unucky enough to get cancer b) won seven tours clean c) is the most tested athlete in the world
All three of those are lies.
Lance got cancer through doping
Lance survived cancer
Lance apparently didnt learn his lesson and continue to dope (maybe he thought, well ive survived cancer so duck it)
Lance built up a cancer foundation and used it to publicise himself
Lance denies all of the above

Im bored now. And besides, I only ever drink Pepsi. Coca Cola are responsible for far too many deaths in south america for my liking. edit: hang on, when the F did you turn from diet coke into pepsi?

I think there is a serious argument for banning all new members for a two months unless they are referred by another person here (there is a referral option in the sign in).

Edit: just seen tff's post.. im saying nowt else