So what's the new scandal?

[Night Rider]

147 posts based on rumor, speculation, bad time lines, etc.

Thanks. You just saved me reading 14 pages of dribble. I'm glad I always skip to the last page after reading the OP's post.

 

[this_is_edie]

so, what was the scandal then?

there was no new scandal. It was the bad news relating to OUCH-Bahati team losing its title sponsor.

The OP mentioned a tweet from ivan Dominguez about bad news. Dominguez is friends with many riders on the Bahati team and there were rumors that the team would fold.

 

[Anonymous]

as was suggested by about page 2 of the thread.. im not sure where the rest of the babble came from.

 

[Cal_Joe]

.. im not sure where the rest of the babble came from.

You must be new here.

Just kidding, Dim.

 

[Barrus]

there was no new scandal. It was the bad news relating to OUCH-Bahati team losing its title sponsor.

The OP mentioned a tweet from ivan Dominguez about bad news. Dominguez is friends with many riders on the Bahati team and there were rumors that the team would fold.

But does that also explain Joe Papp his message?

 

[Ferminal]

But does that also explain Joe Papp his message?

Agreed... Bahati going down isn't exactly "Nagasaki".

 

[Martin318is]

I can't remember the timeline off-hand. Did the Bike Doping thing flare up before or after this thread started?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

there was no new scandal. It was the bad news relating to OUCH-Bahati team losing its title sponsor.

The OP mentioned a tweet from ivan Dominguez about bad news. Dominguez is friends with many riders on the Bahati team and there were rumors that the team would fold.

No, wrong. There is something else afoot. It is just very sensitive, and tied back to other shenanigans.

String it together. Papp, Dominguez, things in common... It is right there.

 

[Race Radio]

No, wrong. There is something else afoot. It is just very sensitive, and tied back to other shenanigans.

String it together. Papp, Dominguez, things in common... It is right there.

Rock is not dead!

 

[scribe]

Valverde's punishment might be the item. Doesn't exactly match up, but comes close to being pretty big news.

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/06/24/2010-06-24_fed_roid_probe_on_ball.html

Rock and drugs go together so well

 

[MacRoadie]

Apparently, ole Mike was about 150% wrong...

 

[BroDeal]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/06/24/2010-06-24_fed_roid_probe_on_ball.html

Rock and drugs go together so well

This search warrant of Rock Racing seems to be about one year too late.

If Ball had a stash at his house then it is now passing through the local sewage treatment plant.

 

[MacRoadie]

Just another brick in the wall...

This search warrant of Rock Racing seems to be about one year too late.

If Ball had a stash at his house then it is now passing through the local sewage treatment plant.

The feds don't care about product. They're looking for a dope trail: computers, documents, etc. And they're looking for leverage.

Follow the dots. You have Ball, who had Leogrande riding for him when he got popped. Ball has other problems with the feds and may be willing to "cooperate" if they get some more goods on him. Remember, Frankie quit over more than just Leogrande.

Next you have Tyler who, although popped for the second time for some goofy homeopathic anti-depressant, still rode for Rock when he was popped and probably knows a thing or two as well. Tyler ties you to Phonak and Floyd (can add credibility to Floyd's story through corroberation), and also back to US Postal. Tyler may not be so friendly as he now has a successful training business, so he may be the the link and the need for leverage.

Now you have your first Postal rider on the hot seat, a guy who is a convicted doper and has a lot to lose.

You knock down a wall one brick at a time. You start by choosing the loose, broken or weakest brick then slowly take them out one by one.

 

[Bicicleta]

The feds don't care about product. They're looking for a dope trail: computers, documents, etc. And they're looking for leverage.

Follow the dots. You have Ball, who had Leogrande riding for him when he got popped. Ball has other problems with the feds and may be willing to "cooperate" if they get some more goods on him. Remember, Frankie quit over more than just Leogrande.

Next you have Tyler who, although popped for the second time for some goofy homeopathic anti-depressant, still rode for Rock when he was popped and probably knows a thing or two as well. Tyler ties you to Phonak and Floyd (can add credibility to Floyd's story through corroberation), and also back to US Postal. Tyler may not be so friendly as he now has a successful training business, so he may be the the link and the need for leverage.

Now you have your first Postal rider on the hot seat, a guy who is a convicted doper and has a lot to lose.

You knock down a wall one brick at a time. You start by choosing the loose, broken or weakest brick then slowly take them out one by one.

Great post/analysis MacRoadie.

 

[BroDeal]

Yeah, the first thing I do when I shut down my racing team is order that all the records of my dope purchases, which for some reason I recorded, be saved for posterity. No reason to make future investigations difficult or anything; the feds have a hard enough job as it is.

 

[MacRoadie]

Yeah, the first thing I do when I shut down my racing team is order that all the records of my dope purchases, which for some reason I recorded, be saved for posterity. No reason to make future investigations difficult or anything; the feds have a hard enough job as it is.

So you figure this is Novitsky and Miller's first rodeo? Maybe you should drop them a line and save them the effort and embarrassment?

Or, maybe, they had a pretty good reason to request and be granted the warrant...on a guy not even mentioned in the Landis emails.

Hmmm

And as far as what YOU would do, would you manage to get caught in a marriage fraud case when you have an army of lawyers who could have got the job done without your involvement, or allow a business to run into the ground while driving a fleet of Escalades to local industrial park crits? Would you fill a cycling team web page bio with 100% horse crap about your "racing palmares" when no one in the sport has ever heard of you? Would you go and populate said team with a host of convicted or strongly suspected dopers, then wonder aloud why you can't get a license?

I didn't think so.

 

[Martin318is]

I personally think the original observation is likely to be correct - its about a year too late to find anything worthwhile. Why would a business manager retain incriminating evidence half a year after any of it would have any value other than to ruin him?

The experience levels of the investigators has no bearing upon this - they are just ticking a box in the investigation process - and there is very low likelihood of them finding anything of value

 

[joe_papp]

I personally think the original observation is likely to be correct - its about a year too late to find anything worthwhile. Why would a business manager retain incriminating evidence half a year after any of it would have any value other than to ruin him?

The experience levels of the investigators has no bearing upon this - they are just ticking a box in the investigation process - and there is very low likelihood of them finding anything of value

Don't be so sure of that...

 

[Race Radio]

Don't be so sure of that...

Of course it is also possible their supplier kept records and that supplier may also be co-operating with the feds now.

Macroadie's post is spot on.

 

[kurtinsc]

I've been reading up some lately on the Barry Bonds case... and I'm not really sure Jeff Novitzky is the best man for this investigation if the goal is for Lance to go down.

He seems to have a lot of zeal in going after dopers... but apparently he also has left the case against Bonds in very bad shape for prosecutors... enough so that it may be dropped soon. He's on record for making statements about making book and movie deals to cash in on his role in "bringing bonds down". He's been charged with fabricating evidence, not serving search warrants, and falsifying official reports. He was investigated by his own agency at the time (the IRS) for missing evidence. Apparently, many of his mistakes in the investigations were the reason why 40 of the 42 original charges regarding Balco were dropped in the plea agreement by Victor Conte and Greg Anderson. These were the only charges filed directly toward steroids in the BALCO case... the rest were all indicted or convicted of perjury/lying/obstruction charges relating to the initial investigation.

I'm not really sure Novitzky is very good at his job.

 

[Race Radio]

An interesting part of this article is this line

Novitzky set up shop late last month at a hotel near Los Angeles International Airport to conduct interviews with cycling figures

I had heard that Novitsky had set up a hotel room to interview people at the ToC but did not believe it. I Thought it was wishful thinking but apparently not.

 

[Race Radio]

I've been reading up some lately on the Barry Bonds case... and I'm not really sure Jeff Novitzky is the best man for this investigation if the goal is for Lance to go down.

He seems to have a lot of zeal in going after dopers... but apparently he also has left the case against Bonds in very bad shape for prosecutors... enough so that it may be dropped soon. He's on record for making statements about making book and movie deals to cash in on his role in "bringing bonds down". He's been charged with fabricating evidence, not serving search warrants, and falsifying official reports. He was investigated by his own agency at the time (the IRS) for missing evidence. Apparently, many of his mistakes in the investigations were the reason why 40 of the 42 original charges regarding Balco were dropped in the plea agreement by Victor Conte and Greg Anderson. These were the only charges filed directly toward steroids in the BALCO case... the rest were all indicted or convicted of perjury/lying/obstruction charges relating to the initial investigation.

I'm not really sure Novitzky is very good at his job.

Wishful thinking.

What hurts the Bonds case is there are no witness willing to testify. It appears this is not the case with Armstrong.

 

[kurtinsc]

Wishful thinking.

What hurts the Bonds case is there are no witness willing to testify. It appears this is not the case with Armstrong.

Not really wishful. I don't really care what happens (though I would like it to happen after the Tour so I can see how Lance does).

But all the stuff about how well he did with the Balco investigation led me to do some reading on it. I'm not really sure the investigation went well looking at the results.

40 of the 42 charges were dropped against Anderson, Valente and Conte in a plea bargain that ended their case. They were not required to name any names of their customers.

Tammy Thomas (a cyclist) and Marion Jones were the only Balco atheletes convicted of anything related to BALCO (as far as I know).

A couple of coaches got convicted as well.


I'm not super familiar with how these types of investigations go... and they did end up getting a few people... but out of all the athletes connected with Balco only two have been convicted (and only Jones served jail time). That investigation began in 2003.

Is that good?

 

[Race Radio]

Not really wishful. I don't really care what happens (though I would like it to happen after the Tour so I can see how Lance does).

But all the stuff about how well he did with the Balco investigation led me to do some reading on it. I'm not really sure the investigation went well looking at the results.

40 of the 42 charges were dropped against Anderson, Valente and Conte in a plea bargain that ended their case. They were not required to name any names of their customers.

Tammy Thomas (a cyclist) and Marion Jones were the only Balco atheletes convicted of anything related to BALCO (as far as I know).

A couple of coaches got convicted as well.


I'm not super familiar with how these types of investigations go... and they did end up getting a few people... but out of all the athletes connected with Balco only two have been convicted (and only Jones served jail time). That investigation began in 2003.

Is that good?

The nature of a plea bargain is charges get dropped or reduced in exchange for co-operation.

Dana Stubblefield, NFL defensive MVP did a plea bargain received 2 year probation
Patrick Arnold served time
Tim Mongumery is serving time for check fraud that was originally discovered during the BALCO investigation. Steve Riddick, his former coach, is also serving time
Victor Conte spent time in prison
Mike Anderson, Bond's trainer, spent time in prison.
Jason Grimsley was suspended for 50 games
Justin Gatlin was banned for 8 years
Alvin Harrison was banned for 4 years.

This is only a partial list. There is little value in trying to reduce Novitzy, he has won lots more then he has lost. He is also only one part of the machine, do not forget that the prosecutor named in the case, Doug Miller, is part of an office that has the highest conviction rate in America.