So, why isn't Carmichael more popular?

[BroDeal]

Somebody tell Fuentes and Ferrari that. Apparently, they have it all wrong.

You think he's turning down coaching the top pros in favor of reading SRM files from Cat 5 riders?

Even if Chris Comical could find a few pros who would not laugh at him, it is safer and more profitable to give low grade advice to lots of amateur cyclists and triathletes.

 

[Zweistein]

Since he "coached" Lance to so many Tour victories on power bars and gatorade, I wonder why no ProTour riders are taking advantage of his extensive "expertise"?

.

VN: In the two years since you came to realize that you were possibly doped, have you had any thoughts as to precisely what it was you were given?

Greg Stock: Well there is what they described as “extract of cortisone,” which I am now sure was cortisone, that’s an immunosuppressant. And then look at the pills we’d find stuffed into our energy bars. There are certain kinds of drugs that would give an advantage if consumed during an event. If you look at the circumstances, pushing pills into energy bars….



To answer your question on why he doesn't have a power bar deal, to my knowledge Powerbar doesn't have a line of bars that have pills in them.

 

[fatandfast]

Even if Chris Comical could find a few pros who would not laugh at him, it is safer and more profitable to give low grade advice to lots of amateur cyclists and triathletes.

Lots of coaches have regional interests and international failures. Aldo Sassi goes on and on about commitment to his program. He had more than one press conference urging people to look at Ricco with an open mind. His trained eye and sound science would catch Ricco screwing up before the fed would. Maybe next time. If you count the US as a region, same size as Australia we only have a few pros and the best ones are already riding for non US based squads. Carmichael is on track to make millions off the bread and butter of racing cat 5,4,3 riders desperate for any edge or inside knowledge. Once you are a 1 you realize genetics and training are holding you back. Maybe Chris has something for that also but why bother. Having a business model that keeps you below the radar is good sense. I would say a 2 year waiting list to be coached by Comical in person is funny in a money making kind of way.

 

[acoggan]

I too challenge the notion that Carmichael isn't successful.. For the *bike* business, the guy is making a killing if he can keep 60 coaches busy. The criticism that he's not coaching any pros is relative. From a business perspective, coaching enthusiasts is a growth segment. Chasing pros, is not a growth segment.

Unless you're "chasing pros" in sports involving a lot more $$ than cycling.

(CTS diversified into providing fitness advice for NASCAR drivers, NFL players, etc., a number of years ago.)

 

[flicker]

Lots of coaches have regional interests and international failures. Aldo Sassi goes on and on about commitment to his program. He had more than one press conference urging people to look at Ricco with an open mind. His trained eye and sound science would catch Ricco screwing up before the fed would. Maybe next time. If you count the US as a region, same size as Australia we only have a few pros and the best ones are already riding for non US based squads. Carmichael is on track to make millions off the bread and butter of racing cat 5,4,3 riders desperate for any edge or inside knowledge. Once you are a 1 you realize genetics and training are holding you back. Maybe Chris has something for that also but why bother. Having a business model that keeps you below the radar is good sense. I would say a 2 year waiting list to be coached by Comical in person is funny in a money making kind of way.

A lot of people love the guy, he is a very popular coach. He had folks lined up to have their foto taken with him at the ToC. I think that was at the Livestrong stockade.

 

[D-Queued]

Even if Chris Comical could find a few pros who would not laugh at him, it is safer and more profitable to give low grade advice to lots of amateur cyclists and triathletes.

But, really, what kind of 'help' do the pros really need?

Since settling out of court with Strock, hasn't Carmichael placed himself into an ineligibility bracket?

These services are no longer on the menu.

But, hey, we will look at your Polar data.

Dave.

 

[flicker]

That is because you have your nose buried so far up LA's a** you can't see the light of day, let alone a "coach" of a questionable credentials/background. I guess it matters not that he left Cycling USA under a pretty dark cloud, and then paid an out of court settlement to make some Jr. rider's story quietly go away.

Why the media has not made more of a story of this, when he was LA's "coach" for most of his run at the TDF, is again another one of those great mysteries. . . from Dr. F to CC. Will you ever be able to connect the dots?

People still love him, I think many of his training camps are sold out.
As far as doping jrs. yes it is a sin. I have never heard of such a thing from any country in any sport, yes that is outrageous. The first thing I ever heard about doping under 18 year olds was in the velonews article about the lawsuit, and I have been watching sports since 1964.

 

[Kennf1]

Carmichael was one of the first to start the internet coaching business, with varying levels of coach interaction. I would wager that the vast majority of clients are Cat 5-3 racers and triathletes. Most coaching "plans" are simply cookie-cutter templates sold en masse, with very little interaction required by the coach. Pretty much all the internet coaching services have this model, with more tailoring of the plan available for more money. Most Cat 2s or 1s I know don't have the money to blow on a $500/month custom training plan. If they are going to spend that kind of money, it will be to work with someone local.

 

[fatandfast]

People still love him, I think many of his training camps are sold out.
As far as doping jrs. yes it is a sin. I have never heard of such a thing from any country in any sport, yes that is outrageous. The first thing I ever heard about doping under 18 year olds was in the velonews article about the lawsuit, and I have been watching sports since 1964.

Like Kennf1 says most 1's don't have an extra 5 bucks let alone 500 for bidirectional emails say speed up or slow down.
I spent my first 2 almost 3 years of racing not knowing how to train. Rode around doing LSD rides in my small chain ring. Race day came and I was supposed to go through a metamorphosis from 15 to 30 mph. I have seen some of his programs, they are pretty good. But save yourself 500 bucks. Train 2 days a week at race speed and you will be a good racer. High level bike racing has lots in common with ski jumping, the top guys spend time on the massive jump the lower level guys are on bunny hills and are told they will rise to the occasion on the day of the event. Maybe, but I have not seen it that way. In you need positive feedback if you are racing and training correctly a club is cheaper

 

[Oldman]

Like Kennf1 says most 1's don't have an extra 5 bucks let alone 500 for bidirectional emails say speed up or slow down.
I spent my first 2 almost 3 years of racing not knowing how to train. Rode around doing LSD rides in my small chain ring. Race day came and I was supposed to go through a metamorphosis from 15 to 30 mph. I have seen some of his programs, they are pretty good. But save yourself 500 bucks. Train 2 days a week at race speed and you will be a good racer. High level bike racing has lots in common with ski jumping, the top guys spend time on the massive jump the lower level guys are on bunny hills and are told they will rise to the occasion on the day of the event. Maybe, but I have not seen it that way. In you need positive feedback if you are racing and training correctly a club is cheaper

+1...you can ususally find a good example for a training model in a successfuly local racer. One that has similar physical attributes and possibly a similar life schedule-ask that person for some advice before spending money.

 

[flicker]

Like Kennf1 says most 1's don't have an extra 5 bucks let alone 500 for bidirectional emails say speed up or slow down.
I spent my first 2 almost 3 years of racing not knowing how to train. Rode around doing LSD rides in my small chain ring. Race day came and I was supposed to go through a metamorphosis from 15 to 30 mph. I have seen some of his programs, they are pretty good. But save yourself 500 bucks. Train 2 days a week at race speed and you will be a good racer. High level bike racing has lots in common with ski jumping, the top guys spend time on the massive jump the lower level guys are on bunny hills and are told they will rise to the occasion on the day of the event. Maybe, but I have not seen it that way. In you need positive feedback if you are racing and training correctly a club is cheaper

I have a friend here in Santa Rosa who rode and mentored LeMond early on.
My friend is a multiple masters champion and has won many races against cat 1 +2 riders during the 70s and 80s.

The idea of hiring a personal coach to me is ludicrous. You can ask Greg about that one. However, I do see the value of Carmicheal training programs.
Others I know who have been successful in business and are older put their complete trust in Carmicheal. I do not see any problem with him, he has a program which he develops for the individuals and I am sure that they improve. He is not the man for guys wanting to go from cat 3 to pro. No hardcore cyclist can afford him, I would guess hardcore cat 3s to US pros have trouble paying for a room before the race at Motel 6.

 

[Oldman]

I have a friend here in Santa Rosa who rode and mentored LeMond early on.
My friend is a multiple masters champion and has won many races against cat 1 +2 riders during the 70s and 80s.

The idea of hiring a personal coach to me is ludicrous. You can ask Greg about that one. However, I do see the value of Carmicheal training programs.
Others I know who have been successful in business and are older put their complete trust in Carmicheal. I do not see any problem with him, he has a program which he develops for the individuals and I am sure that they improve. He is not the man for guys wanting to go from cat 3 to pro. No hardcore cyclist can afford him, I would guess hardcore cat 3s to US pros have trouble paying for a room before the race at Motel 6.

My wife has worked with Gianna Roberge out of your area. She's been surprisingly old-school in work ethic but new-age in communication and totally top-notch. Someone that has her experience and applied expertise may not be common but usually a local version exists that has to be better than an "virtual" coach. Good coaching starts by seeing the rider and getting them settled on the bike so what they do makes efficient sense. Lemond was lucky to find that early on and even rich old guys can benefit from it. If they have the money to go on a Carmichael trip that might be a beneficial experience although much more expensive.
We have Craig Undem and Cycling U here and his program seems to bear fruit. Try the local guys!

 

[Granville57]

May as well bump this thread instead of starting a new one (although the trolling in this old thread is hysterical).
Just thought it would be fun to add some quotes from Tyler's new book.
---------------------------------

First there was this:

A TRAINING PROGRAM SO SIMPLE, IT'S LIKE RIDING A BICYCLE...WITH THE BEST IN THE WORLD!

In 1999 the world watched spellbound as Lance Armstrong achieved one of the most dramatic comebacks in sports history, winning the grueling Tour de France just three years after being diagnosed with advanced testicular cancer. Lance's return road to glory took courage, determination, and a top-notch training program. Now Lance's winning strategies-- developed with coach Chris Carmichael-- can be yours, too! Whether you're a cycling novice or a competitive racer, The Lance Armstrong Training Program will teach you how to:
[blah, blah, blah...]

Simple and focused, Lance's proven program will transform you into the rider you want to be-- in just seven weeks!

-------------------------



And now we have this:

Page 102

Tyler Hamilton: “In later years we often heard Lance tell the public that Chris Carmichael was his official coach—and Carmichael built quite a business on that relationship. I know they were friends. But the truth is, during the years I trained with Lance, I don’t recall Lance ever mentioning Chris’s name or citing a piece of advice Chris had given him. By contrast, Lance mentioned Ferrari constantly, almost annoyingly so.”

In the footnotes:

Jonathan Vaughters: “In two years, I never heard Lance refer to Chris one time.”

Floyd Landis: “Give me a break. Carmichael’s a nice guy, but he had nothing to do with Lance. Carmichael was a beard.”

Christian Vande Velde: “Chris had nothing to do with Lance’s daily training. I think his role was more like a friend, someone to talk about the bigger picture.”

http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Race-Cover-ups-Winning/dp/0345530411

 

[TexPat]

May as well bump this thread instead of starting a new one (although the trolling in this old thread is hysterical).
Just thought it would be fun to add some quotes from Tyler's new book.
---------------------------------

First there was this:

-------------------------



And now we have this:

Page 102



In the footnotes:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Race-Cover-ups-Winning/dp/0345530411

I'll bump it some more and corroborate Tyler's statement. Ferrari was the coach. I saw Carmichael once, and it had nothing to do with training.

 

[pedaling squares]

May as well bump this thread instead of starting a new one (although the trolling in this old thread is hysterical).

Good bump. Posts 4 & 6 were simply the stuff of legend.

"Carmichael was a beard." Now that is funny.

 

[robow7]

I feel so old and un-hip, I had to go and look up the slang definition for "beard"

 

[AntiGravityCycling]

Remember when CC was first on the live TdF broadcasts? Pretty sure he was the WORST looking guy on TV ever, as far as looking confident, knowledgeable, sincere, etc.

Worst.

Ever.

 

[mastersracer]

doesn't CTS stand for Coat Tail Success?

 

[D-Queued]

doesn't CTS stand for Coat Tail Success?

Good one!

Lance has/had an ownership interest, and has never let truth get in the way of making a dollar off someone else.

He takes the (misattributed) PT Barnum line about a sucker being born every minute and extends it to believing that everyone is a sucker.

Dave.

 

[Gnossos7]

Even if Chris Comical could find a few pros who would not laugh at him, it is safer and more profitable to give low grade advice to lots of amateur cyclists and triathletes.

Totally agree. Once upon a time I bought one of CC's training videos. Arrrgh! It was awful. Boring. Stupid. Sold it on Ebay.

 

[goggalor]

I'm surprised Flandis says Carmichael is a nice guy. Didn't he inject teenagers with cortisone?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'm surprised Flandis says Carmichael is a nice guy. Didn't he inject teenagers with cortisone?

Lance and Big George were two of those teens.

You guys are missing the point though. It appears he's made good money selling his fail-proof plans despite his being a doping sc*mb@g.

 

[pedaling squares]

I'm surprised Flandis says Carmichael is a nice guy. Didn't he inject teenagers with cortisone?

Everyone has some positive characteristics about them, and when you get past the jabbing-little-boys-in-the-backside part of his persona, he is probably quite charming.

 

[mastersracer]

Everyone has some positive characteristics about them, and when you get past the jabbing-little-boys-in-the-backside part of his persona, he is probably quite charming.

But if had to explain the physiological assumptions underlying WKO Performance Management he'd look like Sarah Palin explaining international tax law...

 

[jilbiker]

It was all a scam. Reading from Tyler's book, CC have nothing, zilch, nada to do with Lance. Wow. And based on that scam they made millions from books, videos etc. Come'on, there should really be a criminal investigation into the who Lance/US Postal issue.