So, why isn't Carmichael more popular?

[thirteen]

Everyone has some positive characteristics about them, and when you get past the jabbing-little-boys-in-the-backside part of his persona, he is probably quite charming.

can i just say i'm so pleased you're not a mod anymore

 

[irongrl]

I feel so old and un-hip, I had to go and look up the slang definition for "beard"

Me too Let me know when you find out what it means

 

[acoggan]

But if had to explain the physiological assumptions underlying WKO Performance Management he'd look like Sarah Palin explaining international tax law...

Not to defend Carmichael (or Palin), but that would be a trick question: the Performance Manager approach isn't based on any truly physiological assumptions.

 

[trailrunner]

I'm surprised Flandis says Carmichael is a nice guy.

That's probably like saying your date has a nice personality.

 

[the big ring]

Not to defend Carmichael (or Palin), but that would be a trick question: the Performance Manager approach isn't based on any truly physiological assumptions.

It's not based on Banister's impulse-response model?

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/the-science-of-the-performance-manager.aspx

Or are you saying Banister's model is not a physiologically based model?

 

[the big ring]

But if had to explain the physiological assumptions underlying WKO Performance Management he'd look like Sarah Palin explaining international tax law...

He's a coach displayed for the coaches that use trainingpeaks.com, so don't be surprised to see some defense of him from anyone associated with that site.

 

[acoggan]

It's not based on Banister's impulse-response model?

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/the-science-of-the-performance-manager.aspx

Or are you saying Banister's model is not a physiologically based model?

The latter.

 

[mastersracer]

The latter.

I had in mind something like your decision to raise power samples to their fourth power, average them, then take the fourth root to obtain NP. Isn't the use of the 4th power inspired by an exponential relationship between workload and physiological response (like a lactate curve)?

I've talked with Carmichael, who seems like a nice guy (lawsuits notwithstanding), but I'm not so sure we'd ever see a training peaks webinar from him on 'algorithms for modeling workload variability in large power datasets... '

 

[Turner29]

"What would Lance do?"

Microdose EPO.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Trainingpeaks is garbage. I had a friend who used them for a bit. Total crap. The "coach" was a lazy d-bag.

This whole "coaching" thing is such a load of crap. Every yahoo has a "coach" now. I think they hire them in order to have someone to listen to rationalizations when racing plans go awry and they finish outside the top 30.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I've talked with Carmichael, who seems like a nice guy (lawsuits notwithstanding), but I'm not so sure we'd ever see a training peaks webinar from him on 'algorithms for modeling workload variability in large power datasets... '

You may not see it from Carmichael, but you're going to see those results sooner than you think.

 

[Rip:30]

This whole "coaching" thing is such a load of crap. Every yahoo has a "coach" now. I think they hire them in order to have someone to listen to rationalizations when racing plans go awry and they finish outside the top 30.

So true. The plans I've seen are pretty much the counterparts to the nutritional supplement industry in terms of using specious scientific arguments to convince fat chodes to buy training plan X.

 

[acoggan]

I had in mind something like your decision to raise power samples to their fourth power, average them, then take the fourth root to obtain NP. Isn't the use of the 4th power inspired by an exponential relationship between workload and physiological response (like a lactate curve)?'

The structure of a model (e.g., the Performance Manager) and the input function used to drive it (e.g., TSS) are really two different things.

 

[the big ring]

The structure of a model (e.g., the Performance Manager) and the input function used to drive it (e.g., TSS) are really two different things.

So the Performance manager works without TSS?

 

[knewcleardaze]

Man, am I old and out of touch. First, the LSD rides, then beard, and now choad! Gotta say I AM gettin an education!

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

Man, am I old and out of touch. First, the LSD rides, then beard, and now choad! Gotta say I AM gettin an education!

No worries. Keep repeating "high cadence" and you'll be fine.

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

If Chris Carmichael has been exposed as a cipher and a "beard", can Allen Lim and his cover stories about rice cakes be far behind?

 

[Granville57]

If Chris Carmichael has been exposed as a cipher and a "beard", can Allen Lim and rice cakes be far behind?

Difference is that, according to Floyd, Lim actually got his hands dirty...err bloody...err something.
(Even if JV can't spell his name right)

Quick, look the other way!
http://www.bicycling.com/video/racevideos/2010-tour-california/atoc-allen-lim-addresses-allegations#/video/all

 

[Turner29]

Chris Carmichael gives pseudoscientists a bad name.

 

[MacRoadie]

I think they hire them in order to have someone to listen to rationalizations when racing plans go awry and they finish outside the top 30.

I'm thinking that keeps some of them quite busy...

 

[acoggan]

So the Performance manager works without TSS?

Absolutely. You can also use TSS as the input function for other models, such as the original impulse-response model upon which the Performance Manager is based.

 

[mastersracer]

Absolutely. You can also use TSS as the input function for other models, such as the original impulse-response model upon which the Performance Manager is based.

Fair enough - maybe this is more relevant to the original issue Hamilton raised re Carmichael. 2 questions:

1. Was Chris a beta-tester for the performance manager?
2. You are organizing a workshop and can invite one coach to present a talk on 'principles of time constant variations in performance manager for predicting peak performance in grand tour riders' or similar (a talk that gets into the nuts and bolts of WKO applied to elite racers). Would Carmichael be your first choice?

 

[acoggan]

1. Was Chris a beta-tester for the performance manager?

No. My beta testers were Hunter Allen, Tom Anhalt, Gavin Atkins, Andy Birko, Lindsay Edwards, Mark Ewers, Sam Callan, Chris Cleeland, Tony Geller, Dave Harris, Dave Jordaan, Kirby Krieger, Chris Merriam, Jim Miller, Chris Mayhew, Dave Martin, Scott Martin, Phil McNight, Rick Murphy, Terry Ritter, Ben Sharp, Alex Simmons, Phil Skiba, Ric Stern, Bob Tobin, John Verheul, Frank Overton, Lynda Wallenfells, and Mike Zagorski.

2. You are organizing a workshop and can invite one coach to present a talk on 'principles of time constant variations in performance manager for predicting peak performance in grand tour riders' or similar (a talk that gets into the nuts and bolts of WKO applied to elite racers). Would Carmichael be your first choice?

No. In fact, I don't know if Carmichael has ever used WKO+ (unlike, say, Tim Kerrison).

 

[the big ring]

I asked if the Performance manager works without the input of TSS.

Absolutely.

So if you didn't use TSS, what would you use to "drive" the Performance Manager.

 

[acoggan]

So if you didn't use TSS, what would you use to "drive" the Performance Manager.

Meaning, if you don't own a powermeter? Probably Banister's original TRIMP...although Foster's session RPE might be interesting to try as well.