SRAM Haters

[fabramowski]

I have warrantied over a dozen levers, 2 cranks, multiple BBs, 2 sets of pulleys, 2 RED rear ders. Not impressed.

As for not being able to dial in Campagnolo', well, I sell a lot of it, 'dial' a lot of it and it seems to stay that way a long time. One thing for certain, if a customer isn't happy with your work, you will hear about it. Don't hear much from Campagnolo equipped people, not much from shimano bikes, lotz from sram users.

I think anytime people recommend that if you buy Red, get a Force FD, BB and shimano cogset and chain, don't use the Gore crap, somethin' ain't right.

But ride what ya want, I would rather walk than use anything from sram.

maybe the reason you hear from more people with problems is because Scram has more stuff out there and have more of a dealer connection. Wow a lot of parts....really, I see racers go though that in a year alone. I have had problems with all the 3 companies. So to finger point one company out is just bad business. When you’re walking in the rain I'll make sure to hit that puddle for ya....

 

[Bustedknuckle]

maybe the reason you hear from more people with problems is because Scram has more stuff out there and have more of a dealer connection. Wow a lot of parts....really, I see racers go though that in a year alone. I have had problems with all the 3 companies. So to finger point one company out is just bad business. When you’re walking in the rain I'll make sure to hit that puddle for ya....

Even sram says they only have about 12% of the road market right now.

If a company doesn't help me be more successful, asking me to peddle things that I cannot absolutely stand behind(mavic ksyriums come to mind, American Classic wheels, sram) and if I sell them I have to spend my time($$) making something 'right' because of crappy design. Not selling it....that's not bad biz, that's good biz.

If I sold a sram group, BB goes south in short order, yes I warranty it but I don't expect the customer to pay for the labor to take the old one out, put new one in. Same for levers, sram or anybody else sure as ****e isn't going to reimburse me so...I stay away from junque.

Like few bike shops, I don't sell 'it' just cuz I can. THAT often costs money, doesn't make money.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

not the 10 or 11 speed crap, total waste of time. I spent more time trying to get it dialed in, then I have with any campy 9 speed or below. They lost what I liked about campy stuff, once you got it dialed in you never had to touch it again until you had to change your cables...

Imagine that, more cogs in back require more dialing in, which I did with my Record 10s and Athena 11s and haven't had to fiddle with anything on those bikes since Springtime. Depends on the mechanic I guess.

 

[fabramowski]

Imagine that, more cogs in back require more dialing in, which I did with my Record 10s and Athena 11s and haven't had to fiddle with anything on those bikes since Springtime. Depends on the mechanic I guess.

I have record 8 speed and have yet to touch it in 3 years to "dial it in". Wow seem like you would be riding Super Record, what too expensive. Really, "Depends on the mechanic I guess", arguing who the better mechanic is on the internet is like arguing who the smartest *** is...

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I have record 8 speed and have yet to touch it in 3 years to "dial it in". Wow seem like you would be riding Super Record, what too expensive. Really, "Depends on the mechanic I guess", arguing who the better mechanic is on the internet is like arguing who the smartest *** is...

Yes, and I'm sure you ride that 8s rig everyday, right? pffft, c'mon dude who you foolin'. So you've got Campy 8 and 9s figured out but 10 and 11s give you fits to a point where you have to rant about it on a internet forum. God I hope you don't work in a bike shop, and if you do you should let everyone here know where that is so they can avoid getting anything new set up by you, or just avoid it like the plague for that matter.

 

[fabramowski]

Yes, and I'm sure you ride that 8s rig everyday, right? pffft, c'mon dude who you foolin'. So you've got Campy 8 and 9s figured out but 10 and 11s give you fits to a point where you have to rant about it on a internet forum. God I hope you don't work in a bike shop, and if you do you should let everyone here know where that is so they can avoid getting anything new set up by you, or just avoid it like the plague for that matter.

I'm sorry you walked right into this...you are the smartest ***.....

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/italian-job?page=0,0

Great story on Campy.

Rather clear why their stuff works, and lasts, better then something produced by Chinese prison labor in 15 different factories....

 

[Race Radio]

It is important to note that SRAM's recent rise is not fueled by them producing better gear, they bought their way to the top.

They first raised $100 million of capital from lehman brothers (Yes, those guys). They used this to buy Pro Team sponsorship, advertise, and buy market share by selling below cost to gain placement on bikes.

Next they will raise $300 million by going public. This will pay back the investors and enable them to buy more market share.

The companies growth is largely fueled by funny money, not better product. On a positive note they did provide the sport a much needed revenue stream via sponsorship of teams, riders, and events.

 

[Gaear Grimsrud]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/italian-job?page=0,0

Great story on Campy.

Rather clear why their stuff works, and lasts, better then something produced by Chinese prison labor in 15 different factories....

Thanks for the link. I like how they're aware that they need to keep on eye on the price and avoid making Campy unavailable to "the people."

While I have little patience for retrogrouches, I can't help but feel electronic components are a travesty and a fad, and I guess the economic realities force Campy to move in that direction, not unlike the way Porsche felt it necessary to make an SUV.

 

[ElChingon]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/italian-job?page=0,0

Great story on Campy.

Rather clear why their stuff works, and lasts, better then something produced by Chinese prison labor in 15 different factories....

Please split off to its own thread. Its a thread or whole forum section in itself.

 

[ElChingon]

Thanks for the link. I like how they're aware that they need to keep on eye on the price and avoid making Campy unavailable to "the people."

Its available to the sensible people who know deep down what they're buying is supporting a company that supports just what you want out of life as well. If not then go get a job that pays $4K a year.

While I have little patience for retrogrouches, I can't help but feel electronic components are a travesty and a fad, and I guess the economic realities force Campy to move in that direction, not unlike the way Porsche felt it necessary to make an SUV.

The four door Porsche was the mark of selling out. Also, I was riding electronic components back in 1999 and that was the second generation, so you might want to update retrogrouch to prehistoricgrouch.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

It is important to note that SRAM's recent rise is not fueled by them producing better gear, they bought their way to the top.

They first raised $100 million of capital from lehman brothers (Yes, those guys). They used this to buy Pro Team sponsorship, advertise, and buy market share by selling below cost to gain placement on bikes.

Next they will raise $300 million by going public. This will pay back the investors and enable them to buy more market share.

The companies growth is largely fueled by funny money, not better product. On a positive note they did provide the sport a much needed revenue stream via sponsorship of teams, riders, and events.

We'll see how long their free spending ways last. Can't sell at of below their cost for long w/o having the 'new' shareholders scream bloody murder.

Unless they step up on quality, their market share will dwindle and w/o high volume(think circuit city) they are history. Expect that if they do make better(more expensive to make) stuff, their competitve edge bought with others $ will be gone.

 

[titan_90]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/italian-job?page=0,0

Great story on Campy.

Rather clear why their stuff works, and lasts, better then something produced by Chinese prison labor in 15 different factories....

I would also like to thank you for posting this link, great read.

 

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Also, I was riding electronic components back in 1999 and that was the second generation, so you might want to update retrogrouch to prehistoricgrouch.

Maybe Di2 will be more lasting than Zap, or Mektronic, or Speedtronic. Until then, I'm happy to ride and not to have to worry about whether I have enough charge in my battery to change gears.

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/italian-job?page=0,0

Great story on Campy.

Rather clear why their stuff works, and lasts, better then something produced by Chinese prison labor in 15 different factories....

Cheers for that. Glad to see Campy understand that better production skills in house are worth it.

With sram based on buying into teams and spending big you need to sell big, always and there is a flaw in that. Also the lesson of Schwinn might bite them.

 

[Parera]

Amazing that a family run company who clearly cares about their products and employees (as well as their tradition) is still somewhat vibrant. Hope they keep up the good work for decades to come.

 

[ElChingon]

We'll see how long their free spending ways last. Can't sell at of below their cost for long w/o having the 'new' shareholders scream bloody murder.

Unless they step up on quality, their market share will dwindle and w/o high volume(think circuit city) they are history. Expect that if they do make better(more expensive to make) stuff, their competitve edge bought with others $ will be gone.

As long as they can keep finding suckers to buy stocks. Its the typical pyramid/ponzi scheme, those in the beginning will make some money, but those at the end are going to take the loss, just when that happens is the whole game.

 

[BroDeal]

LOL. Cervelo is buying Shimano components for Garmin even though Shimano is not a Garmin team sponsor. It sounds like the team's riders must really hate SRAM.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/11/news/garmin-cervelo-switches-to-shimano_198126

 

[Benotti69]

LOL. Cervelo is buying Shimano components for Garmin even though Shimano is not a Garmin team sponsor. It sounds like the team's riders must really hate SRAM.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/11/news/garmin-cervelo-switches-to-shimano_198126

It would be interesting to see riders home training bikes and what they really ride bet close up there would be some surprises.

 

[funnytanlines]

google "broken sram shifter" and you'll find the reason for a lot of the "hate", or at least real-world reasons for making the leap back to shimano

 

[fabramowski]

here is problems with Shimano:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/473700/dura-ace-7900-issues
Here is problems with Campy:
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/drivetrain/groupos/campagnolo/super-record-11-speed/prd_438532_2497crx.aspx

Like I said before they all have problems. Just like some people have problems with Apple or Microsoft, I think the switch has to do more with sponsor dollars then anything else since Garmin-Cervelo lost a big sponsor as seem here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/garmin-moves-on-after-bigmat-sponsorship-deal-collapses

Most problems were on the lower end stuff not on Red which the team would have used..

 

[funnytanlines]

i've had the above (broken sram) happen twice so that was it for me. back to shimano where i've never had the same kind of problem, even with their "lower end stuff". for a lot of people, rival isn't cheap either, and sram was touting it as ultegra level or better when it came out (second tier at the time, after force).

i was not a sram hater by the way, i have used their other products, especially off road (truvativ, avid, gripshift) so i felt fairly confident buying rival to upgrade my road bike at the time. i've lost confidence in the brand now, though.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

here is problems with Shimano:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/473700/dura-ace-7900-issues
Here is problems with Campy:
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/drivetrain/groupos/campagnolo/super-record-11-speed/prd_438532_2497crx.aspx

Like I said before they all have problems. Just like some people have problems with Apple or Microsoft, I think the switch has to do more with sponsor dollars then anything else since Garmin-Cervelo lost a big sponsor as seem here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/garmin-moves-on-after-bigmat-sponsorship-deal-collapses

Most problems were on the lower end stuff not on Red which the team would have used..

The problems Garmin saw were all on Red 'stuff'. Poor performance, poor reliability, poor design all around. Their riders didn't like it, they felt it was limiting their on road/during race performance and sram gave them the thousand yard stare when JV continually asked them about their obvious shortcomings. Samo with Cadel and BMC.

When 2 teams 'buy' components rather than take sponsorship equipment, it isn't about sponsor dollars. Good move on JVs part, IMHO>

BTW-those 'problems' with Campagnolo stem from poor installation, poor knowledge of this stuff, not from design.
Same with shimano. Soime gent that gets a new group and a local wrench can't make it work right so it must be crap. sram problems are in the area of reliability, stuff breaking, not working due to design, like chains, red Fders, cogsets. As I said before when a red group is purchased, but subbed with a shimano cogset and chain and Force FD, something is wrong. You don't see 7900/6700 groups sold with sram cogsets and chains.

Any wrench who can't get 11s stuff working well ought to turn in his wrenches. I install a LOT of it, it is not diffucult, finicky, a black art.

 

[kiwirider]

here is problems with Shimano:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/473700/dura-ace-7900-issues
Here is problems with Campy:
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/drivetrain/groupos/campagnolo/super-record-11-speed/prd_438532_2497crx.aspx

Did you read those links before you posted them??

Correct me if I've read the wrong bits, but the Campag one - apart from one guy going all poison dwarf and fixing the problem by changing from one gruppo to another that is 95% identical to the first one - is full of people giving the product 5 out of 5 ratings.

The Shimano one talks about a guys shifting problems that are fixed by changing the cable housing and seem to be primarily due to issues with an internally routed frame.

So the conclusions are: Campag is great and Shimano works best with other people's cables ... Tell me again how that supports your argument in favour of those two manufacturers being as bad as SRAM?

 

[ElDepo]

Tommy D getting dropped Stage 6 2011 Tour De Suisse in what appears to be a SRAM shifting malfunction -- about the 2 min 12 seconds in: http://www.steephill.tv/players/you...shboard=tour-de-suisse&id=bJ7FHa8mmrc&yr=2011