Stage 19: Friday, May 25: Treviso-Alpe di Pampeago. 198km

[Bernie's eyesore]

Wow.. Pantani's time in 1999 "only contained" 3700 meters of gained height compared to 5100 and he was 50 seconds faster. This means this climb has been ridden extremely fast and there werent more attacks cause the full pace was on constantly.

Maybe they rode the climb fast because they had been dawdling about for the rest of the stage, Kreuziger took close on 2 minutes out of them in no time at all when he attacked which showed just how slow they were going.

 

[roundabout]

Guys, did you see Kreuziger today? Because he was a GC contender just two days ago, and suddenly today he could up the ante. It's not a matter of strength, but of balls.

You missed the collective pee break on the downhill from Lavazze.

 

[Pharazon]

Looks like the 34:44 group at the finish are the ones who were 15:50 behind at the first passage of the finish line.

should be one more bus, then guardini

 

[Froome19]

A decent mid-race ITT would have put some time gaps in so we could see some real racing.

Once again, what more could these riders (Basso, Scarponi, Purito and Pozzovivo) have done today?

 

[Caruut]

Guys, did you see Kreuziger today? Because he was a GC contender just two days ago, and suddenly today he could up the ante. It's not a matter of strength, but of balls.

Yes, but I'm starting to think that cracking big-time was actually cracking small-time and then just giving up enough time and taking it easy enough to try this today.

 

[Ferminal]

I think the strong point of Basso and Scarponi is endurance. If they let the stage go by without making it hard, it's no wonder other riders can keep up with them or even beat them. Their only chance to win this Giro was to turn it into an endurance match. They didn't, which is why riders like Purito and Hesjedal, who go better on the hills, were better than them.

There are many ways to try. If you wait for the last 3 km of course it's going to be a straight showdown and the strongest in those 3 km will win. But they had a choice. They didn't need to wait. Would the relative strengths remain the same if it was a contest over 30 km as over 3 km? I seriously doubt it.

At any rate, they needed to put serious time into Hesjedal. Attacking with only 3 km to go, they would only take serious time if Hesjedal collapsed. That's a gamble. For Basso, it's ridiculous to have his team race on the front for 3 weeks and then gamble it all on something he had no control over - Hesjedal collpasing by himself.

They also have the strongest teams. If they wait until the final 5km, they lose that tactical advantage. If you're not the strongest individual you either ride for a minor placing or try and manipulate the situation so that the strongest are isolated and have to manage the race on their own.

It's hard to see Hesjedal or Purito being fazed if they have to ride the final 15km of Stelvio in the group of five or six. That in fact is the ideal situation for them. But half way up Mortirolo? Brings a fair bit of uncertainty into the equation.

 

[El Pistolero]

You know this Giro sucks when people talk about the maglia rosso passione.

 

[Red Rick]

Guardinin is gonna win the maglia nera over 5 hours back

 

[seaby71]

Purito has to get 3rd as well tomorow and that is without Cav getting in a break and taking the intermediate
Going on today i dont know whether he is capable of that, or not.
It will certainly be tight.

I think jrod needs 4th or higher which will be 14 points.
No way will cav get in a break to grab any points, int sprint to far into the stage. I also think that jrod will Finnish top 4 easily tomorrow as he knows if he loses pink he still will win the red jersey

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Guys, did you see Kreuziger today? Because he was a GC contender just two days ago, and suddenly today he could up the ante. It's not a matter of strength, but of balls.

Kreuziger was allowed to go because he wasn't a threat and even then he only held on by 15 or 20 seconds.

I don't think his ride really provides evidence for the idea that an attack on the penultimate climb by a contender who wouldn't be allowed to ride away would stick. Lampre and Garmin still had strong domestiques there.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Cav & grupetto now in at 41 mins

 

[hrotha]

They also have the strongest teams. If they wait until the final 5km, they lose that tactical advantage. If you're not the strongest individual you either ride for a minor placing or try and manipulate the situation so that the strongest are isolated and have to manage the race on their own.

It's hard to see Hesjedal or Purito being fazed if they have to ride the final 15km of Stelvio in the group of five or six. That in fact is the ideal situation for them. But half way up Mortirolo? Brings a fair bit of uncertainty into the equation.

About Liquigas, it is my belief that they aren't nearly as strong as people think. Every time things have got serious, they've disappeared, but it's easy to ride in front of the peloton when no one wants to remove you from that position.

As for Lampre, it's not much of a tactical advantage if you don't move your riders.

Tomorrow they actually need Hesjedal to crack, and Liquigas can't keep up the farce anymore, so hopefully we'll see some actual racing. But the intertia...

 

[Pharazon]

ouch Intexhausti lost 41mins

 

[Caruut]

Once again, what more could these riders (Basso, Scarponi, Purito and Pozzovivo) have done today?

What kind of question is that?

Obviously I'm going to say "attack", and you're going to say "they were on the limit". Thing is, they can't all have been equally on the limit. With a bit more in the way of time gaps, attacking while on the limit goes from being painful and risky to your best option. If Scarponi, say, was a minute behind Basso, then even when he feels he's close to the limit, he knows his only chance is to attack and hope that Basso cracks.

 

[Havetts]

ouch Intexhausti lost 41mins

Wow Beñat cracked hard then.. is it confirmed it was him?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

yes. because cycling is so clean a tough endurance sport like this over 3 weeks becomes much closer.

 

[hrotha]

Kreuziger was allowed to go because he wasn't a threat and even then he only held on by 15 or 20 seconds.

I don't think his ride really provides evidence for the idea that an attack on the penultimate climb by a contender who wouldn't be allowed to ride away would stick. Lampre and Garmin still had strong domestiques there.

Of course he was allowed to go. The point is he had the strength to go. He had it all along, but today he simply wasn't afraid of losing his sweet 6th place or whatever, so he went. My point is not that the attack stuck, but that he could have tried at any time, and not without chances of success.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

only good side of this stage is that Liquigas failed so hard they'll have to do something on Mortirolo tomorrow.
Strongest team:
no wins
not even GC podium.

Congratulations guys.

liquigas are an utter failure but also lampre. cunego and ulissi only ride for themselves and scarponi's other teammates suck

 

[cineteq]

Cavendish, Ferrari, Phinney, Hunter safe within the time limit...but where's Guardini?

 

[_Awer_]

Yes, but I'm starting to think that cracking big-time was actually cracking small-time and then just giving up enough time and taking it easy enough to try this today.

This is definitely not a true. He was dead and needed to sit down off the bike plenty times during the last climb.. Kreuziger is simply rider who can do this. Check Mont Ventoux

 

[seldon71]

I think jrod needs 4th or higher which will be 14 points.
No way will cav get in a break to grab any points, int sprint to far into the stage. I also think that jrod will Finnish top 4 easily tomorrow as he knows if he loses pink he still will win the red jersey

+1 for this! IF Cavendish misses the cut today, J-Rod may take risks tomorrow in order to drop Hesjedal. If not, I think he will be conservative (like today) and just wish for others to crack, 'cause that can at least secure him the M.Rossa.

Edit: Autobus in at +40 minutes so that is good enough for them to stay in a race.

Additionally, I think history lessons should not be taken too strongly here. J-Rod used to be absolutely horrible time triallist, but he was solid in Basque Country and also in prologue. Yes, this Milan thing suits him clearly worse than those, but I don't expect him to be atrocious anymore - he will lose time to other contenders, but maybe not that not much...

 

[Parrulo]

i had to miss this stage due to last minute business and was extremely mad, but i see i haven't missed anything at all.

this giro is being pathetic

 

[maxmartin]

i doubt that will happen, the problem for Liquigas is Hesjedal is the same type rider as Basso, everything works for Basso works for Hesjedal except Hesjedal probably is a better engine than Basso nowadays. Plus endurance plays hand into Hesjedal, he likes hard high tempo climb. According to his DS, he has an exceptional endurance ability.

Ah, you're right. It is just theorizing. That final part of your post was my thinking when Garmin took over: Hesjedal telling the others he was feeling good.

But I do still think that he was only that strong because of the pace over the final climbs. If Scarponi, Basso, et al had been on the fron for the last climb, setting a fast, steady pace with maybe one or two accelerations that kicked out everyone but the top five or six, then we may have seen a different Hesjedal at the end. I do feel that the climbers have more endurance in the mountains over the long run than Hesjedal, but they have to make that strength known over a longer distance.

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Guardini makes it.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Of course he was allowed to go. The point is he had the strength to go. He had it all along, but today he simply wasn't afraid of losing his sweet 6th place or whatever, so he went. My point is not that the attack stuck, but that he could have tried at any time, and not without chances of success.

And my point was that just because you can attack and win by 15 or 20 seconds if you are allowed to ride away, that does not provide evidence for the contention that you could have successfully attacked when you would not have been allowed to ride away.

Sure, Kreuziger didn't attack previously because he was worried about GC. But that wasn't irrational. When he was still in a position to be worried by his GC, he was also still in a position where others would be worried about his GC.