State of Peloton 2023

[Mayomaniac]

we already have this, it's called the Volta a Portugal

I feel like the Volta ain't what it used to be since W52-Porto got busted.

 

[zlev11]

I feel like the Volta ain't what it used to be since W52-Porto got busted.

yeah very true, it wasn't the same last year

 

[Rob5091]

I feel like the Volta ain't what it used to be since W52-Porto got busted.

Yeah,we have to put up with just having the Tour doing crazy stuff.

 

[ZamlinusYoutubeious]

I feel that someone is gonna get pop very soon. It's the tdf ..soo

 

[Tim Cahill]

It's usually Thursday or Friday before when we get the annual raid I think, hopefully we don't have to wait for the rest day this time for some carnage.

Pretty sure the last one has gone silent hasn't it? Last I'd heard it was handed over by Europol and then nothing. The 'Provincial French mayor with a grudge' believers vindicated?

 

[pastronef]

It's usually Thursday or Friday before when we get the annual raid I think, hopefully we don't have to wait for the rest day this time for some carnage.

Pretty sure the last one has gone silent hasn't it? Last I'd heard it was handed over by Europol and then nothing. The 'Provincial French mayor with a grudge' believers vindicated?

vindicated? nothing banned was found. that's how it works. and it wasn't started by a French Mayor. it was the Marseille police doing their usual stunt

 

[the delgados]

What makes a grand tour rider?
Has anyone won on their first or second try?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

What makes a grand tour rider?
Has anyone won on their first or second try?

I think a long, long time ago, two obscure riders named Tadej Pogačar and Remco Evenepoel won on their second tries.

 

[Rob5091]

What makes a grand tour rider?
Has anyone won on their first or second try?

Not the answer exactly to your question, but a fascinating list of all the winners and some comments -

https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/g22059401/tour-de-france-winners/

 

[the delgados]

I think a long, long time ago, two obscure riders named Tadej Pogačar and Remco Evenepoel won on their second tries.

That' amazing!
And so young!
I know someone had to win it on their first try, but I think that guy hopped on a train or something.

 

[Pantani_lives]

What makes a grand tour rider?
Has anyone won on their first or second try?

Hinault won the Vuelta (and the Tour) on his first attempt in 1978. I don't think there's a more recent example.

 

[Rob5091]

https://ita.sport/news/the-ita-is-r...i-doping-program-for-the-2023-tour-de-france/

The people managing the anti-doping at the Tour etc - the International Testing Agency in Switzerland. According to the UCI report they've gone all digital with new intelligence software to presumedly catch dopers boasting online.

Edit -add - remember folks, if you see anything suspicious at the Tour, then contact the UCI at https://report.whistleb.com/en-GB/uci2 immediately!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Edit -add - remember folks, if you see anything suspicious at the Tour, then contact the UCI at https://report.whistleb.com/en-GB/uci2 immediately!

During the 2007 Tour de France I posted on a Danish forum, that there was no way Vino was clean, and then he was thrown out of the race only a few hours later. I'm sure there was a connection.

 

[RedheadDane]

Has anyone won on their first or second try?

Maurice Garin. But, TBF, that was everyone's first try.

 

[the delgados]

Maurice Garin. But, TBF, that was everyone's first try.

Yeah, I mentioned him earlier, but his name escaped me. You know, the guy that hopped a train or something.

 

[Red Rick]

What makes a grand tour rider?
Has anyone won on their first or second try?

I dunno about winning but Andy Schleck got 2nd in this first GT.

 

[the delgados]

I dunno about winning but Andy Schleck got 2nd in this first GT.

And he was very young as well. What is it about these young riders who don't have the miles in their legs winning or coming close to winning le Tour?
I know they didn't just take up professional cycling like Roglic, nor did they partake in ski jumping, but winning a grand tour at young ages like Pogacar and Remco is an outstanding achievement.

 

[SHAD0W93]

And he was very young as well. What is it about these young riders who don't have the miles in their legs winning or coming close to winning le Tour?
I know they didn't just take up professional cycling like Roglic, nor did they partake in ski jumping, but winning a grand tour at young ages like Pogacar and Remco is an outstanding achievement.

Add in Ullrich too if going that route. Second in his first Tour de France and first in his second. Contador was the same. All of them young. Aru and Nibali as well were only 25 and 26 doing the Giro beforehand.

 

[the delgados]

Add in Ullrich too if going that route. Second in his first Tour de France and first in his second. Contador was the same. All of them young. Aru and Nibali as well were only 25 and 26 doing the Giro beforehand.

Have you read "Jan Ullrich" written by Daniel Friebe?
I'm not trying to be condescending; I would like to have this conversation with you if you wish.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Have you read "Jan Ullrich" written by Daniel Friebe?
I'm not trying to be condescending; I would like to have this conversation with you if you wish.

I have not, no.

 

[the delgados]

I have not, no.

Neither have I. Just kidding.
I'm half way through, and it's getting to the interviews with Lance, etc. The most interesting aspect so far is the geopolitical situation in which Jan grew up and the system in which he was first identified as a top level athlete and subsequently coached by high level coaches -- coaches who were indirectly part of the Stasi.
Jan was caught up in the doping scandals that befell the tour after his teammate Riis won and before the French team soigneur was popped for carrying untold amounts of drugs across the border that was meant for the riders. (Team name escapes me).
At this point in the narrative, former coaches of Jan are denying that he was involved in any sort of doping activities. In fact, shortly after Riss's win, team Telecom bought ads in newspapers congratulating Bjarne on his drug-free win.
Doctors and coaches from Telecom had a history in East German dominance in several Olympic games, and they pledged to find a way to detect EPO use in the peloton. Same doctors who played a role in doping athletes to the gills.
I wonder where this is going to go.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Neither have I. Just kidding.
I'm half way through, and it's getting to the interviews with Lance, etc. The most interesting aspect so far is the geopolitical situation in which Jan grew up and the system in which he was first identified as a top level athlete and subsequently coached by high level coaches -- coaches who were indirectly part of the Stasi.
Jan was caught up in the doping scandals that befell the tour after his teammate Riis won and before the French team soigneur was popped for carrying untold amounts of drugs across the border that was meant for the riders. (Team name escapes me).
At this point in the narrative, former coaches of Jan are denying that he was involved in any sort of doping activities. In fact, shortly after Riss's win, team Telecom bought ads in newspapers congratulating Bjarne on his drug-free win.
Doctors and coaches from Telecom had a history in East German dominance in several Olympic games, and they pledged to find a way to detect EPO use in the peloton. Same doctors who played a role in doping athletes to the gills.
I wonder where this is going to go.

Whether super responser or not, Ullrich was very talented. With a different childhood and amateur upbringing maybe he doesn’t slack off as much in the off-season to live his life how he wants to live.

While dissimilar, I liken Ullrich to Michael Jackson. Both found to be extremely talented young and not allowed to have a childhood leading to issues in their adult life.

 

[the delgados]

Whether super responser or not, Ullrich was very talented. With a different childhood and amateur upbringing maybe he doesn’t slack off as much in the off-season to live his life how he wants to live.

While dissimilar, I liken Ullrich to Michael Jackson. Both found to be extremely talented young and not allowed to have a childhood leading to issues in their adult life.

He would not have been selected by the state system and trained to be a cyclist if he wasn't talented.
In terms of identifying and grooming a potential star athlete, Jan grew up in the perfect system. He left a dysfunctional family (except his mom; she seems like an awesome person), and was trained night and day to be the very best. He went to school, and did whatever people do in a communist country to live a relatively normal life. Speculation of how he turned out is just that -- speculation. Guy might have slacked off and did nothing because his father was an abusive alcoholic.
He wasn't in the Gulag. He was taken care of and given extra attention because he was gifted.
I understand your analogy to Micheal Jackson, but I disagree. Michael was raised and groomed to be a star by members of his family. From what I think i know, Michael was abused by his family. Jan wasn't.
So far, Jan is portrayed as someone who is not the brightest log on the yuletide fire. He comes across as a bit dim-witted. That might sound harsh, but it's the vibe I'm getting.

 

[noob]

During the 2007 Tour de France I posted on a Danish forum, that there was no way Vino was clean, and then he was thrown out of the race only a few hours later. I'm sure there was a connection.

Thank you for your community service.

 

[the delgados]

It seems the social contract that Red Rick was referring to earlier has expired between Chris Horner and Phil Gaimon.
Yesterday Gaimon posted a Youtube video that was harshly critical of Chris Horner. PG didn't go into details, but he was obviously referring to doping.
Phil was/is an outstanding climber. He also sports a "clean" tattoo that he introduced before the end of his career. I can only imagine how that went over among his competitors.
Guy glides up the mountains with absolute ease, and he continues to set record times in "retirement." But his main beef with Horner seems to be that the latter has been seen in the commentator booth. He adds that Horner still tacitly defends Armstrong by not saying anything.
Think about the fact that Gaimon is zeroing in on one rider among pretty much everyone else who was doping. Guys like Jens Voigt, Sir Bradley Wiggins, Robbie McEwen, Christian Van de Velde et al. went on to careers in the broadcast booth, but the anti-doping crusader says nothing about them. This is personal.
My point being is it continues to astound me that riders have not had a regulatory body among themselves that deal with management -- i.e. a union.
This sort of stuff would never happen in a sport with a union that has a wink-wink deal with the owners that they're taking care of the "drug problem." Of course pro athletes are going to take every advantage available to them, especially considering the amount of money involved. I think it's silly to think otherwise.
But here we have an example of the social contract going awry. No one will ever hear a pro athlete in football outing a former teammate he hates for doping. That's because they've made their fortunes and there's no need to go down that road. They have pensions and benefits and stuff.
Cyclists don't.