State of Peloton 2023

[zlev11]

eh, he's done it before: https://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=39489

he's shown to be suited to the 3-5min effots in the past on multiple occasions. if he starts climbing the high mountains in the GC group then I'll come back and agree with you.

dropped on the first climb today

 

[the delgados]

Does anyone know how much of a cut the riders are going to get from the Netflix series?
The show is very well done and is sure to grow the sport in the coming years. That means more for the UCI, more bikes being sold, more exposure for sponsors, etc. etc.
Did the riders have any say in negotiations?

 

[Tim Cahill]

ITALIAN AMATEUR DOPING CONTINUES AT RECORD PACE, GUIDA AND ARTEGIANI NEWEST SUSPECTS

With 24 alleged, undisputed or proven amateur doping violations so far this year, Italian cycling is on pace to set an all-time doping record by year end. In 2019, the last full cycling season befo…

granfondodailynews.com

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcDG1j5jWo

 

[the delgados]

ITALIAN AMATEUR DOPING CONTINUES AT RECORD PACE, GUIDA AND ARTEGIANI NEWEST SUSPECTS

With 24 alleged, undisputed or proven amateur doping violations so far this year, Italian cycling is on pace to set an all-time doping record by year end. In 2019, the last full cycling season befo…

granfondodailynews.com

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcDG1j5jWo

Cue the claims that only low level riders use PEDs, the ones who try to keep up, etc. etc. and so on and so forth and more of the same.

 

[the delgados]

The difference between then and now @Rackham is that back then people had evidence. And they had an actual theory too, not just a conspiracy. What have you got? Feck all save calling anyone who challenges your anti-Evenepoel ranting a fanboi.

Put up or shut up.

I just saw this now.
Back then, people had zero evidence. Everything was circumstantial, and I suspect you already know that, given your join date.
This is a perfect example of what I suggested pages ago. This forum went from a hot-bed of doping talk to brow-beating from patrons of the community.
The put up or shut up argument is disingenuous.

 

[Nick2413]

Cue the claims that only low level riders use PEDs, the ones who try to keep up, etc. etc. and so on and so forth and more of the same.

Just like how gym bros are the only ones who use steroids and obviously the Rock and Arnie are too dedicated to ever stoop to that level.

 

[Pantani_lives]

As long as the UCI does the controls the chance of anyone from Jumbo being caught is zero. Twenty years ago it was said that an independent organisation should do it, but nothing has changed. An honest guy like Toon Aerts is banned, Colombians are used as scapegoats, but a freak like the Danish Skeleton can continue without fears.

 

[pastronef]

As long as the UCI does the controls the chance of anyone from Jumbo being caught is zero. Twenty years ago it was said that an independent organisation should do it, but nothing has changed. An honest guy like Toon Aerts is banned, Colombians are used as scapegoats, but a freak like the Danish Skeleton can continue without fears.

the ITA does the controls (International Testing Agency)

 

[Rob5091]

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...dej-pogacar-smash-the-col-du-tourmalet-record
Jonas Vingegaard is the fittest rider of the moment. The Danish Jumbo-Visma rider is riding at an exceptional level in this Tour de France 2023 and in the sixth stage he proved it again by beating the climb record of the mythical Col du Tourmalet.

The previous record in the eastern side dated back to 2021 and was held by David Gaudu at 47 minutes and 35 seconds. The new one, that of Vingegaard and Pogacar, is 45 minutes and 11 seconds as Jumbo-Visma imploded the race on it's slopes, with an all-out attack from the defending champion.

Strong tailwind?

 

[Red Rick]

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...dej-pogacar-smash-the-col-du-tourmalet-record
Jonas Vingegaard is the fittest rider of the moment. The Danish Jumbo-Visma rider is riding at an exceptional level in this Tour de France 2023 and in the sixth stage he proved it again by beating the climb record of the mythical Col du Tourmalet.

The previous record in the eastern side dated back to 2021 and was held by David Gaudu at 47 minutes and 35 seconds. The new one, that of Vingegaard and Pogacar, is 45 minutes and 11 seconds as Jumbo-Visma imploded the race on it's slopes, with an all-out attack from the defending champion.

Strong tailwind?

"Previous record" meaning nothing other than "the last time they did this climb"?

 

[Rob5091]

LeTourData
Twitter link

https://twitter.com/x/status/1676960334576500737

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1676960334576500737

 

[NFTtiddies]

LeTour is just trying to distract us

https://imgur.com/a/Sdp2gbR

Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1677011788204761093

View: https://twitter.com/CyclingWatts/status/1677011788204761093/photo/1

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Congrats to Marco Haller, Christophe Laporte and Nathan Van Hooydonck on pulling for the majority of this record.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ok, good to see that we have finally surpassed the dark Armstrong ages and went straight back to the 90ies with it's clean heros. Oh, wait...

 

[NFTtiddies]

"In the final 4.81 kilometres of the climb both Vingegaard and Pogačar did their career best performances, considering the altitude. Vingegaard for 13:27 min pushed 6.91 ᵉW/Kg, while Pogačar in the draft did 6.83 ᵉW/Kg. The most impressive part about this that they both did the previous 30 minutes at around 5.5-5.6 ᵉW/Kg and went supersonic at high altitude. The average altitude at this segment is 1,897 metres above sea level. With normalising the ᵉW/Kg to sea level, Vingegaard did 7.46 ᵉW/Kg for 13:27 min, which is his career best performance, even better than Marie Blanque the day before - the same with Pogačar. No wonder the Dane was surprised to see Pogačar on his wheel after dropping him on stage 5. Most of the GC riders on this short segment lost around two minutes. Egan Bernal before this segment spent 2,229 kilojoules for 2:35 h, which is high pace per hour, at 15.03 kj/kg/h, but not a high amount of kilojoules overall."
Source: https://lanternerouge.com/2023/07/06/tadej-pogacar-returns-to-his-best-tour-de-france-stage-6-2023/

So... If we were to take the 7.46 w/kg and calculate his oxygen consumption, we would get a raw VO2 of 92.3 ml/kg/min for 13 min. As a conservative estimate, lets say he went 95% of his max, making his VO2 max 97 ml/kg/min.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The last part of Tourmalet was ridiculous by our heroes. VAM of 1936 m/h at the altitude vs 1689 m/h for the yellow jersey group, estimated gap of 1 w/kg (!) and 2 minutes gained in just a few km. The fastest Tourmalet in history on top of that. Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the mutants era.

 

[Ripper]

The last part of Tourmalet was ridiculous by our heroes. VAM of 1936 m/h at the altitude vs 1689 m/h for the yellow jersey group, estimated gap of 1 w/kg (!) and 2 minutes gained in just a few km. The fastest Tourmalet in history on top of that. Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the mutants era.

Quite the extra-terrestrial demonstration, x2

 

[Escarabajo]

No wonder why Froome couldn't come back!

 

[Rob5091]

Not bad performance from a guy who lost nearly a minute the day before.

 

[the delgados]

Not bad performance from a guy who lost nearly a minute the day before.

Maybe today he remembered to eat his rice cakes.

 

[Nick2413]

Seems obvious something acute like a blood bag was involved for Pog (Jonas already maxed out), but why not the stage before?

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

LeTour is just trying to distract us

https://imgur.com/a/Sdp2gbR

Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1677011788204761093

View: https://twitter.com/CyclingWatts/status/1677011788204761093/photo/1

I think it’s even crazier Kuss has one of the best Tourmalet performances ever.

 

[Riek s]

Dont know what to say anymore. This is getting redicilous. With Froome we knew he only had a few days he was going alien mode. Now with Pog and Ving battling each other, its alien mode vs alien mode every day. They have no reason to mild their performance since they have an opponent who does the same.

And the rest of the peleton must go above and beyond as well.

 

[meat puppet]

I have said this before but something happened around 2020, which offset the previous equilibrium regarding performance, enhancement and tactics.

The most overt consequence is that long-range attacking by key GC and classics contenders once again became not only viable (as it was in some cases in the 2010s) but almost the norm. In other words, level-differences in aerobic metabolic capacity were reintroduced into the peloton. And so it is once again possible to just ride away from the top tier contenders if the "big six" or whatever have that one bit of extra capacity.

During the 2010s this was not the case; the strongest riders still had to mostly concentrate their attacks on key climbs at the end of the stages or one day races. There were of course exceptions (think Cancellara and Boonen's raids; Schleck's attack, Froome in the Giro, etc). But I think the key is this: what was mythical and exceptional then is the expectation today.

The very high racing speeds and fast climb times partly confirm this paradigm shift IMHO.

At the same time, the rail-thin anorexic GC bois (think Wiggo & Froome in 2012-13) have almost disappeared. The current crop is not that borderline. Even Vingegaard is not that extreme if you ask me. You ask me, all this tinkering with weight was to gain advantages within the paradigm; watts were more or less non-enhancable, so the focus was on kilos and/or stamina/fatigue resistance (corticosteroids, for instance).

What is driving the change I have no clue. But the riders clearly metabolise more stuff aerobically, be it fats, carbs, ketone esters or whatever.

What was exposed during the Aderlass fallout is the last window into the practices. And that was good old fashioned blood doping, fairly low tech. But OTOH no heads of state were busted, so we really have only guesses.

 

[Escarabajo]

At meat puppet, I think Vingegaard looks very skinny to me if you ask me. very.
But yes, I agree with you that something happened in 2020. Something changed.