State of Peloton 2023

[Rob5091]

The CPA is the riders union ( https://www.cpacycling.com/en/) but it's interesting that it's the Americans Gaimon (who's doing his own Youtube comments on the Tour) and Horner not Europeans fighting amongst themselves. Different cultural backgrounds I suppose but Horner is not doing the Tour this year for TV. So is this just a Youtube spat?

 

[Rico044]

The CPA is the riders union ( https://www.cpacycling.com/en/) but it's interesting that it's the Americans Gaimon (who's doing his own Youtube comments on the Tour) and Horner not Europeans fighting amongst themselves. Different cultural backgrounds I suppose but Horner is not doing the Tour this year for TV. So is this just a Youtube spat?

The Horner/Gaimon thing goes a ways back. When Phil was racing domestically in the US, Horner was as well. It was that time period after Horner's vuelta win. He (Horner) had issues that indicated an abuse of corticosteriods. As a result, no team would touch him and he ended up racing in the US against guys like Phil. Phil writes about this in his books. Apparently they did not like each other back then.

 

[Rob5091]

Thanks for the insight on the Gaimon/Horner feud. It does seem to be a black/white issue with some people (doping) as apposed to the guys who say that it's part of pro-cycling because it's so tough and if everyone does it, there's no advantage to be had.

 

[the delgados]

The CPA is the riders union ( https://www.cpacycling.com/en/) but it's interesting that it's the Americans Gaimon (who's doing his own Youtube comments on the Tour) and Horner not Europeans fighting amongst themselves. Different cultural backgrounds I suppose but Horner is not doing the Tour this year for TV. So is this just a Youtube spat?

Just a quick note to say the CPA is like an employee association at work -- they are not unions.
Unions comprise of workers who negotiate legally binding collective agreements. The workers have a say in everything, from wages, to pensions, to health and safety, etc. Unions have the legal right to go on strike, for example. If, say the CPA were to go on strike, you can be rest assured that a lot of pros will be former pros by the time things get resolved.
All the rest is just window dressing to make the workers maybe feel like they have a union.

 

[Nick2413]

Don’t know much about Gaimon except that he seems to live his life around chasing 2nd tier Strava KOMs and is about the most sanctimonious person on Earth.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Don’t know much about Gaimon except that he seems to live his life around chasing 2nd tier Strava KOMs and is about the most sanctimonious person on Earth.

While white knighting his buddy Tom Danielson, who got busted twice.

 

[Rackham]

I feel the whole "youtube cycling podcast" phase is getting out of hand, i.e. it's too much now. They're all also (at least it seems this way) putting in product placement of some sort & fishing for likes & subs.

Youtube has basically become a depository for ex pro cyclists to say some things. I mean it does become redundant after a while because their commentary on races quickly veers into the predictable, i.e. like I don't even have to watch Chris Horner's latest video because I know he's going to torch UAE & Jumbo for their tactics yesterday (knuckleheads etc.). Horner differentiates himself a little by actively engaging with youtubers posting comments on his videos but even that now feels forced.

And The Move has progressively lost its novelty factor which at the beginning was "oh wow cool, Lance is going to say some provocative stuff". All in all my point here is I'm not going to click on Paul Gaimon's youtube channel. I can barely even be bothered to watch Lanterne Rouge these days (again, I find them both predictable & their videos are way too long).

 

[the delgados]

I feel the whole "youtube cycling podcast" phase is getting out of hand, i.e. it's too much now. They're all also (at least it seems this way) putting in product placement of some sort & fishing for likes & subs.

Youtube has basically become a depository for ex pro cyclists to say some things. I mean it does become redundant after a while because their commentary on races quickly veers into the predictable, i.e. like I don't even have to watch Chris Horner's latest video because I know he's going to torch UAE & Jumbo for their tactics yesterday (knuckleheads etc.). Horner differentiates himself a little by actively engaging with youtubers posting comments on his videos but even that now feels forced.

And The Move has progressively lost its novelty factor which at the beginning was "oh wow cool, Lance is going to say some provocative stuff". All in all my point here is I'm not going to click on Paul Gaimon's youtube channel. I can barely even be bothered to watch Lanterne Rouge these days (again, I find them both predictable & their videos are way too long).

They wouldn't have to do these things if they had a union!
Union! Union! (I'm getting carried away. Sincere apologies.)
I enjoy Horner's channel for its cheekiness and unique style. Horner makes me laugh.
Not to harsh on Gaimon, but I don't think you're missing much by not watching his channel. He's an interesting guy, but the post-retirement mountain-climb-record-setting-cookie thing is a bit weird for me. Someone smarter than me insists he's on the gear, but I really don't care. I wish him and his lovely wife the best, though.
The Move has been a circle-jerk from day one. Lance will be Lance and his minions will always fall in line. That guy has an ego the size of Manhattan.

 

[Nick2413]

So far we have a 27 year old with no 2024 contract and almost no significant results climbing Mano a Mano with the 2 aliens then following it up with a win the next day. Getting excited for what other breakout performances are in store the next couple weeks.

 

[the delgados]

I'm curious to know how the Cavendish narrative is going to play out.
I would not be the least bit surprised if he won a stage, despite his age, and despite the fact he has pretty much gone to pasture.
But Horner won a grand tour at age 42, so dreams sometimes become reality.
Fingers crossed!

 

[Rob5091]

So far we have a 27 year old with no 2024 contract and almost no significant results climbing Mano a Mano with the 2 aliens then following it up with a win the next day. Getting excited for what other breakout performances are in store the next couple weeks.

Yeah, I wondered about that too. Last year, Pogacar and Vingegaard were described as being on another level and now Lafay suddenly is too? We have to wait and see what happens though on the longer climbs.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah, I wondered about that too. Last year, Pogacar and Vingegaard were described as being on another level and now Lafay suddenly is too? We have to wait and see what happens though on the longer climbs.

Cofidis have stepped up since Damiani came back. Overall I really don't get the impression that the French teams are caught behind in an arms race, they've been really competitive over the last 2-3 years.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

So far we have a 27 year old with no 2024 contract and almost no significant results climbing Mano a Mano with the 2 aliens then following it up with a win the next day. Getting excited for what other breakout performances are in store the next couple weeks.

Implying that he doesn't have a contract for next year because a lack of results is unfair. Surely is performance in stage 1 was surprising, but he has been a consistently good puncheur for the last 2-3 season.

 

[ZamlinusYoutubeious]

They wouldn't have to do these things if they had a union!
Union! Union! (I'm getting carried away. Sincere apologies.)
I enjoy Horner's channel for its cheekiness and unique style. Horner makes me laugh.
Not to harsh on Gaimon, but I don't think you're missing much by not watching his channel. He's an interesting guy, but the post-retirement mountain-climb-record-setting-cookie thing is a bit weird for me. Someone smarter than me insists he's on the gear, but I really don't care. I wish him and his lovely wife the best, though.
The Move has been a circle-jerk from day one. Lance will be Lance and his minions will always fall in line. That guy has an ego the size of Manhattan.

No show job in cycling unions would be good 😃😜

 

[ZamlinusYoutubeious]

Talking of youtube..it is ridiculous..not just cycling youtuber...even mafioso who ratted are a hit in youtube..Sammy the bull is a big hit. Lol

 

[pastronef]

So far we have a 27 year old with no 2024 contract and almost no significant results climbing Mano a Mano with the 2 aliens then following it up with a win the next day. Getting excited for what other breakout performances are in store the next couple weeks.

you should check @procyclingstats

6th in Fleche Wallonne 3 seconds from Pogacar (together with Woods, Ciccone etc)
Gran Besancon winner with ah uphill attack
Giro stage winner 2021
Arctic Norway stage winner (uphill finish)
3rd in an uphill finish stage in Tirreno 2022, behind Pog and Vinge

 

[radioshack]

Don’t know much about Gaimon except that he seems to live his life around chasing 2nd tier Strava KOMs and is about the most sanctimonious person on Earth.

Strava in many ways has turned people into sanctimonious attention hounds. Along with adding social media comments to the workouts, it turned into a facebook for workouts.

 

[Red Rick]

It seems the social contract that Red Rick was referring to earlier has expired between Chris Horner and Phil Gaimon.
Yesterday Gaimon posted a Youtube video that was harshly critical of Chris Horner. PG didn't go into details, but he was obviously referring to doping.
Phil was/is an outstanding climber. He also sports a "clean" tattoo that he introduced before the end of his career. I can only imagine how that went over among his competitors.
Guy glides up the mountains with absolute ease, and he continues to set record times in "retirement." But his main beef with Horner seems to be that the latter has been seen in the commentator booth. He adds that Horner still tacitly defends Armstrong by not saying anything.
Think about the fact that Gaimon is zeroing in on one rider among pretty much everyone else who was doping. Guys like Jens Voigt, Sir Bradley Wiggins, Robbie McEwen, Christian Van de Velde et al. went on to careers in the broadcast booth, but the anti-doping crusader says nothing about them. This is personal.
My point being is it continues to astound me that riders have not had a regulatory body among themselves that deal with management -- i.e. a union.
This sort of stuff would never happen in a sport with a union that has a wink-wink deal with the owners that they're taking care of the "drug problem." Of course pro athletes are going to take every advantage available to them, especially considering the amount of money involved. I think it's silly to think otherwise.
But here we have an example of the social contract going awry. No one will ever hear a pro athlete in football outing a former teammate he hates for doping. That's because they've made their fortunes and there's no need to go down that road. They have pensions and benefits and stuff.
Cyclists don't.

I don't think it's because of unions or whatever, I think it's just that in cycling accusing someone of doping actually has some modest weight to it because in other sports nobody cares.

 

[Red Rick]

While white knighting his buddy Tom Danielson, who got busted twice.

This, more than anything, tells you you can't take any 'cycling cleanz' people seriously.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Strava in many ways has turned people into sanctimonious attention hounds. Along with adding social media comments to the workouts, it turned into a facebook for workouts.

The best thing about Strava is the CT-level Sputniks actually posting their WTF wattages on there.

 

[the delgados]

I don't think it's because of unions or whatever, I think it's just that in cycling accusing someone of doping actually has some modest weight to it because in other sports nobody cares.

I submit that the main reason people don't care is due to workers and owners managing to keep a lid on it. More money for everybody.
I wouldn't encourage an enemy to visit, say, a major league baseball forum and suggest one of their heroes is on the gear. I've counted at least a dozen suggestions for ways to kill myself.
I'm just suggesting reasons why the social contract in cycling isn't as strong as it is in other sports.
The Gaimon/Horner thing is not a big deal, though. Both have retired from a sport that is tiny compared to others. I don't think a casual observer would tune into either broadcast.

 

[zlev11]

So far we have a 27 year old with no 2024 contract and almost no significant results climbing Mano a Mano with the 2 aliens then following it up with a win the next day. Getting excited for what other breakout performances are in store the next couple weeks.

eh, he's done it before: https://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=39489

he's shown to be suited to the 3-5min effots in the past on multiple occasions. if he starts climbing the high mountains in the GC group then I'll come back and agree with you.

 

[Nick2413]

Strava in many ways has turned people into sanctimonious attention hounds. Along with adding social media comments to the workouts, it turned into a facebook for workouts.

To some degree, but it’s still infinitely better than the traditional social media platforms

 

[pastronef]

MPCC today: stage win and yellow jersey, stage 3rd place and polka dots jersey. #mpcc
@MPCC_Cycling

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Yep, that mpcc crowd are starting to look ominously strong